Mini 1501: We're On A Boat! (END?! results inside)

[fferyllt]

Vote YYR

I see the argument for Kaze, but I can't buy into it.

YYR is my next strongest scum read, so here I am.

[fferyllt]

Though I have to say, Empire's reads post is somehow not as comforting as I'd like. I guess I expected at least one read that goes in a direction I wouldn't anticipate.

[SpyreX]

I can see why the neighborhood would make town-NotSci freaking paranoid.

Except he wasn't - until there was a wagon.

[fferyllt]

I can see why the neighborhood would make town-NotSci freaking paranoid.

Except he wasn't - until there was a wagon.

And you don't think that seeing other people voting and expressing concerns might fan niggles and reservations into flames?

[Brian Skies]

You guys are going to hate me for this, but *Prod dodge. I'll post tomorrow.

[SleepyKrew]

pro dodge

[pitoli]

Garmr and ChannelDelibird have both been prodded.

[ChannelDelibird]

Well that happened quicker than I thought.

Mod:

Apologies for the prods - I don't need V/LA, I just need to get off my arse and post more. Steps are being taken.

Re: Spyrex: The below from CTD interests me. I've turned the scenario over a couple of times in my head and it doesn't quite feel like a consistent mentality from Spyrex.

The big issue for me here is that you're calling Brian

town

while at the same time stating that he should be lynched later on. If you're against lynching him today for stated reasoning that you think he is town, why are you preemptively in favor of lynching him later? Again, the "we could town-sweep" argument is hogwash, because a mislynch or two has zero bearing on Brian's alignment.

Ffery - why YYR?

[Garmr]

Mod

I'm sorry that was my first prod ever.

Well I haven't really got much to say except I still think kaze is the best lynch for today.

[ChannelDelibird]

Having reviewed, I'd be more open to a Kaze vote now. I think a Brian flip might tell us more about Kaze than the other way round, though, and I still think Brian's likely to flip scum.

[Garmr]

Channeldelibird Just curious how would a Brian flip tells us more about kaze. I'm kinda confused in that way because i don't see a deep connection between them two.

[ChannelDelibird]

If Brian flips scum, we get to see how partners reacted to his miller claim. In that instance, I think Kaze broadly avoiding taking a stance on it, as observed by Spyrex a couple of pages ago, might be useful as a buddy indicator.

[Garmr]

I get what your saying now and you do have a point. But there's a chance that Brian flips town and kaze in my eyes will still be scum. Wouldn't it be better to vig Brian if we have one?

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm not saying Kaze can't be scum if Brian's town, just that I think we get a more informed decision if we lynch Brian before we decide what to do with Kaze. And, er, no, I'd rather lynch a scumread immediately than leave them to be dealt with by a hypothetical vig.

[Garmr]

I get your point and Brian hasn't exactly been the most helpful to town. Still prefer a kaze lynch through but willing to go Brian if that doesn't go through.

[notscience]

CDB talk to me about Spyrex please.

[ChannelDelibird]

As I mentioned above, CTD's point about how he sees Brian is a little stretchy to see as a consistent thought process. By and large, however, I find Spyrex reasonable but unreadable, in the way that good, well-spoken players often are to me when I haven't played with them much before. There's enough to slightly pique my interest but not a lot of confidence. Seems like the sort of player whom I would rather be investigating for buddy interactions rather than independent scumminess.

[CrashTextDummie]

I'm not sure what glasses you're using when you read my posts but lets get one thing clear: Being cognizant of something that will happen is not the same as being in favor of it. It is in no way shape or form a leap or a Nostradamus prediction that Brian will end up dead unless the game is in a state where that doesn't need to happen. So, go ahead and drink your own hogwash if you think that the game state doesn't have any affect on the lynch.

And never, never ever did I make any statements about Brian's alignment. He's town, but that doesn't change the fact down the road. This isn't even car science, much less rocket science.

The essence of this is still "Brian is town, but if the game gets to a certain stage (i.e. not a clean sweep), he needs to die", and it still doesn't make any sense.

Nope. I'm not playing speak and spell. If you dont see why I think he's scum from a post you are quoting you're either being willfully obtuse or *gasp* dont care enough to look. Its almost like its a trend.

Don't give me that crap. I hate it when people play "I see something that you don't see" in mafia. All you've had to say about Maestro is that he's lazy and needs to "step up or die". That's awfully thin reasoning to say that Empire is "probably scum", particularly when the "lazyness" in question on Maestro's part has resulted in dropping out.

There's not a "defense". There's nothing to defend. What I did say, and just reiterated is that notscience is lying. The original statement was a lie. End point. You either think I am lying about his lie, or telling the truth. End point.

So NS is scum?

[Kazekirimaru]

I personally think a Kaze lynch is a rather poor idea.

[Kazekirimaru]

Spyre's neighborhood with notscience and the interactions regarding it are actually solidifying my townread on the former.

[CrashTextDummie]

LolWagon's dance around Spyrex doesn't sit right with me. He came in gunning for Spyrex, but changed his tune because he "didn't particularly like" some of the later jumps on the wagon, and because Spyrex's responses had given him pause. I find that needlessly opaque. I don't have the first hand experience that he claims to have of playing with Spyrex, so what exactly about Spyrex's responses has made him reconsider? There's also a curious interaction with CDB, where he remarks that LolWagons should be voting Brian based on his analysis, and in his very next post, LolWagons does just that. Feels more like he was correcting the course than an organic progression of thought.

In the one game I played with Empire, I found him to be very transparently town, and I'm gonna wait and see if that shines through in this game as well before I put much thought into reading him.

CDB's latest posts with regards to Spyrex read a bit like he's choosing his words a little too carefully, but it's not a strong ping and I think his play overall has been appropriately inquisitive when he does show up to play.

YYR and Brian are coasting hard-core, and I hate it.

I have some business with Kaze, but I need Empire to post first.

[CrashTextDummie]

Spyre's neighborhood with notscience and the interactions regarding it are actually solidifying my townread on the former.

I actually empathize with this to a degree. While I find aspects of it hair-raisingly asinine (Spyrex suggesting that a town/town neighborhood is "far more likely" than a town/scum neighborhood, Spyrex anticipating a fake neighbor claim), the manner of the claim did strike me as the first thing out of Spyrex's mouth that feels more likely to come from town than scum.

[fferyllt]

Ffery - why YYR?

At the time when post 57 hit the thread, I was pretty focused on Aeronaut, his L-1 vote on Brian and his "no u" reactions to being called out for it. I didn't follow up on this post. In fact, I used it as an example of Aeronaut being dense about votes sans reasoning.

But, the post is squiffy. With the phrase "entirely too coincidental", he suggests that Brian's miller claim is a direct result of the RVS lolwagon, but votes Aeronaut. And then he goes on to call Kase out for an apparent inconsistency regarding miller claims and whether they are null tells.

The reason for his vote change to Kaze in post 145 is pretty weak IMO. Other players state they are inclined to believe the miller claim, and Kaze going along with that is suspect. I hate this kind of argument, as though it's inherently suspect to be swayed by someone else's arguments or stances.

The rest of his contribution is basically a tag-along regarding the uselessness of wagoning Maestro. This is kinda ironic given his vote on Kaze is based on tag-along behavior on Kaze's part.

Add to that his overall lack of contribution: 8 posts and one exchange with another player.

[fferyllt]

I need to stop using the term "lolwagon" unless I'm referring to the player. I was not referring to Lolwagon the player in my 2nd paragraph.

[Kazekirimaru]

Spyre's neighborhood with notscience and the interactions regarding it are actually solidifying my townread on the former.

I actually empathize with this to a degree. While I find aspects of it hair-raisingly asinine (Spyrex suggesting that a town/town neighborhood is "far more likely" than a town/scum neighborhood, Spyrex anticipating a fake neighbor claim), the manner of the claim did strike me as the first thing out of Spyrex's mouth that feels more likely to come from town than scum.

Indeed. From what I gather, Town generally tend to use 2-person neighborhoods as a scumhunting tool. A magnifying glass, if you will. It is expected that scum won't hold up as well in a 1v1 private environment. So this shows Spyre is attempting to get townreads and got one on ns somehow(though I don't see how really). Plus, I really don't see the scum motivation in Spyre crumbing and outing himself in order to justify his townread on ns. I feel if Spyre were scum, he'd have passively used the neighborhood to appease ns and nothing more. Everything about that claim and the interactions around it feels town.