Micro 242: Les Miserables Mafia (Game Over)

[Kazekirimaru]

shos looks weird but I can't see scum motivation behind his arguments so meh. His "taunts" I see as null because it's honestly just snideness and attitude is almost always just a personality thing.

@Mhork: I'm thinking you can call me Kaze.

@funky: Do you agree that my "Morton's Fork" argument is valid? It appears you do in your 64. If so, why is your vote still on shos?

@elle: Why did you unvote, exactly? What does applesauce have to do with things? ._.

Need moar posts. Grimgroove, where you at brah?

[Lord Mhork]

Can I call you Kazemandu? Kazemandius?

Good point on shos too. I was considering that.

[funkybike1]

@funky: Do you agree that my "Morton's Fork" argument is valid? It appears you do in your 64. If so, why is your vote still on shos?

Yes, I do agree with the argument itself being null, though his other posts hardly do anything to defend him. My vote is on him because I haven't had a reason to move it, and I still think he's a bit scummy.

Funky,

why are you scum?

if you aren't scum, who is?

I have a slight scumread on shos, though it's nothing but a gut feeling at this point. We're less than 48 hours in though so it's hard to tell for anyone.

[Lord Mhork]

I disagree. These first 48 hours are a great time to get first gut impressions which can very often be correct. Where's you gut feeling come from?

[Maemuki]

For what it's worth, I'm null/town on Malakittens for that early funky attack, nullish/sorta town on elle for general feel, but I don't trust that, and null/townish on Kazekirasomethingorother but that's a really weak guttish thing based on his whole 'Morton's Fork' discussion and general attacks on funky. I'm actually feeling null/scum on Maemuki because fluffity fluff fluff and the fact that she didn't attack my following funky onto shos and scum on funky (obviously).

[Totally gonna go off topic and answer bv: 25th Anniversary Les Mis can go die in a hole. 1988 Symphonic Recording is where it's at. Phillip Quast = GREATEST JAVERT EVER. I did enjoy the 25th Anniversary Phantom, though, as much as I can enjoy Phantom of the Opera.]

I really want to lean town on bv but I just can't due to lack of evidence and all that. Please post more so I can think you're town, bv! And of course I'm solid null on Grimgroove and I think he should be prodded with a big heavy stick. Maybe a truncheon.

Malakitty, I'm interested in this back and forth you were talking about in 27 with funky as soon as your V/LA ends.

Elle

I'm sorry I didn't understand the wine reference until just now when it clicked

do you have scum games I can look at? I haven't seen you as scum yet. Also can you do that thing where you're really, really protown? I've seen you do it a lot and it's awesome. Who are your scum reads?

Kazikiramira: Whatcha thinking, pal? You look fairly townie thus far.

Funky,

why are you scum?

if you aren't scum, who is?

Maemuki, you're fluffing really hard. Granted you only have 6 posts, but most of them don't really contribute anything? Why didn't you pursue the following funky thing? What are your thoughts?

BV: Other than the shos WIFOM thing, is there any reason you suspect him? What do you think of funky?

Mhork, I think your vote on Shos was very strange - it felt like sheeping while not completely understanding why. At least funky had the decency to quote what he thought was scummy. I said that already, but you conviniently didn't catch that.

[Lord Mhork]

Yet you only voted after funky did. I don't think that makes much sense, but w/e. (b'-')b

You mean when you said this? Where did you say it felt like sheeping? The part where you pointed out I voted after funky did? That just looks like a random observation.

And are you saying I didn't point out why I thought shos looked scummy?

[Malakittens]

Whatcha want to know?

[Lord Mhork]

Everything. 0.0

I dunno. You said you wanted a discussion with funky. That's a good place to start, right?

[Malakittens]

Wanted to see his reaction.
However I don't get why he's leaning town on me from the matter of 3 posts.

[shos]

alright so since I can't see this discussion leading us anywhere good. what would you do if a cop had claimed a guilty on you?

[Lord Mhork]

What does that even mean?

[penguin_alien]

All these fools trusted me, they'd done their bit of good.
I played the good townie and voted like I should.
But when the thread was dead I posted one long wall:
Picked a target, watched him FALL!

With nine alive, it takes five to lynch!

Vote Count 1.03:

Lord Mhork (L-4): shos
Malakittens (L-5):
Kazekirimaru (L-5):
bv310 (L-4): Maemuki
Maemuki (L-5):
shos (L-2): bv310, funkybike1, Lord Mhork
Grimgroove (L-5):
elleheathen (L-5):
funkybike1 (L-3): Kazekirimaru, Malakittens

Not voting: Grimgroove, elleheathen

V/LA: Malakittens through 10/8

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-19 00:44:01)

Grimgroove has not picked up his role PM and will be replaced by mod fiat in 24 hours if he does not do so; replacements are being sounded out...

[elleheathen]

But is it at all strange for someone to change his views - and his vote - when criticized for a previous vote?

IMO, yes, it is strange.
I think it's more of a scum trait to change the way you normally do things just to appease/mimic others.

Elle

I'm sorry I didn't understand the wine reference until just now when it clicked

do you have scum games I can look at? I haven't seen you as scum yet.

Ahaha, I forgive you. Here, my only scumgame.

Also can you do that thing where you're really, really protown? I've seen you do it a lot and it's awesome. Who are your scum reads?

But that has a tendency to get me really, really, NK'ed on N1. I'm sure obvtown me will likely rear her deathwish head soon enough, regardless. Busy weekends, ftl.

Fttb, I agree with your Mae read and am trying to sort funky/shos. But I'll get back to you on this with a full reads/reasons list soon.

@elle: Why did you unvote, exactly? What does applesauce have to do with things? ._.

A bit of an inside joke (apologies for confusion) but applesauce was a reference to a game we just won because I town-read Mhork correctly during a lylo. The unvote is due to him feeling very similarly to how he started that game and his reaction (or lack thereof) to being run up seemed fine.

Plus, I came into this thinking (very wrongly, lol) that I'd be able to sing/quote my way through this using only lines from my flavor char so seeing Thenardier was like

What do you think about it?
What's your read on Mhork? And on funky?

[elleheathen]

what are you guys talking about?
suppose a wagon rises in D1, which, well, happens, obviously. even further suppose that an L-1 wagon rises on the first page(!) which happens quite a lot too(for example, in my last game ended). suppose the one who put the L-1 vote did not say it was L-1. and some newbguy can't count and lolhammers by mistake.

anything good for town? anything bad for scum? day cut short, mislynch, there's no wifom here, no suspects, nothing.putting a wagon on L-1 without saying so is entirely pro scum, unless there's a guy like me who would pressure that point precisely. without being prodded to, specifying that it is L-1 by italics and undeline and in a different line, THAT, sir, is a town member.

While I agree that someone putting someone at L:1 without saying so is scummy - I don't think the reverse is true in that instance - I 'stress' L:1 regardless of alignment - so that, to me, is null.

For arguments sake, I could just as easily see what he did as a scum move to put an L:1 at the bottom of a page while 'stressing' it so people didn't come back to him with 'You didn't make it clear it was only a vote from a lynch!' and sit back and hope that some non-reading derp comes in to hammer so you can blame it on them.

It wasn't a question about whether

not

stating L:1 was scummy, it was about stating L:1 is obvtown. The fact that you're saying they're the same and trying to use reverse logic doesn't give me good feels, though.

alright so since I can't see this discussion leading us anywhere good. what would you do if a cop had claimed a guilty on you?

First, to answer the question, lynch all liars.

Second,

VOTE: shos

Why wouldn't a discussion on you lead us anywhere good? Why is it better to discuss setup speculation and/or things that are irrelevant to the game at the moment (as we don't know wth we have) than it is to talk about things or people actually in the thread?

Also, since you didn't answer before, who was your townread again?

THIS IS L-1!

^--- Look! Stressed!

[Grimgroove]

Just back from V/LA, today will be busy but consider me an active participant very very soon!

[shos]

Ohai gg you live me now don't you ;p

@elle: obviously when the subject is up in discussion that is null. But when he did that, it wasn't, and claiming that putting a vote in the buttom of a page is scummy is idiotic. Do you understand that me calling someone Town now leads to my lynch? Do you understand how scum-led this wagon is? I can understand a vote on someone building a faulty case, someone who tries to look like he is scumhunting, but calling a Town read page 2? Niet.

If i am lynched before or after I claim, lynch my voters.

[shos]

Also if it is relevant, I calling people for l-1s gamestart all the time, so you're more than welcome to view my meta.

[Lord Mhork]

Who's the scum on your wagon if it's a scum lead wagon?

[shos]

I'll take a look when I have time, which will be in approximately 3 hours

[Lord Mhork]

Nifty. My breath is bated

[Grimgroove]

Just got time for a first quick read-through.
Initial discussion about L-1 on page 1 and anything related to it didn't seem very interesting to me.
Mhork's post 30 I disliked, mainly because of the part where he says the odds are that funkybike is probably town but it's definitely worth pushing. I don't see how that works, first of all letting him know you actually think he's town let's him know your push on him is not something you truly believe in and thus should not concern him. Secondly it shows you're following an argument through voting you don't follow through reasoning. Why do such a thing?

Not sure I got time for a full-blown catch-up post, but I'm already quite certain Maemuki is scum. All of her posts are fluff and show tactical detachment from content.

elleheathen knows a lot about Les Miserables. I don't know a thing so most of her initial posts read like mumbojumbo to me. I do get strong townvibes from the rest of her ISO, especially her latest three posts.

I'll have to get into shos-case later, butI don't like this bit in post 90:

"If i am lynched

before or after I claim

, lynch my voters."

That distinction is not only irrelevant for his intended result ("lynch his voters"), it's also nonsense. It implies that he's got a strong role on the one hand, by implying the claim in itself will be pivotal enough to warrant such a distinction, yet on the other hand implies a weak role since some people could still be moved to vote him and lynch him despite his claim. It doesn't seem to add up.

More later, but sadly not today.

[Lord Mhork]

Oh yay Grim is prolly town woohoo!

Scum is somewhere in Mae/Krazy/Shos. GG.

[funkybike1]

Just got time for a first quick read-through.
Initial discussion about L-1 on page 1 and anything related to it didn't seem very interesting to me.
Mhork's post 30 I disliked, mainly because of the part where he says the odds are that funkybike is probably town but it's definitely worth pushing. I don't see how that works, first of all letting him know you actually think he's town let's him know your push on him is not something you truly believe in and thus should not concern him. Secondly it shows you're following an argument through voting you don't follow through reasoning. Why do such a thing?

Not sure I got time for a full-blown catch-up post, but I'm already quite certain Maemuki is scum. All of her posts are fluff and show tactical detachment from content.

elleheathen knows a lot about Les Miserables. I don't know a thing so most of her initial posts read like mumbojumbo to me. I do get strong townvibes from the rest of her ISO, especially her latest three posts.

I'll have to get into shos-case later, butI don't like this bit in post 90:

"If i am lynched

before or after I claim

, lynch my voters."

That distinction is not only irrelevant for his intended result ("lynch his voters"), it's also nonsense. It implies that he's got a strong role on the one hand, by implying the claim in itself will be pivotal enough to warrant such a distinction, yet on the other hand implies a weak role since some people could still be moved to vote him and lynch him despite his claim. It doesn't seem to add up.

More later, but sadly not today.

I do agree with most of what you said. At post 30 we were still in RVS so Mhork's post isn't as bad as it seems. I'm not 100% sold on Mae scum yet, though your arguments seem fair. As for shos: #90, followed by #93, leaves me convinced he is probably scum.

Ohai gg you live me now don't you ;p

Never a good way to start a post.

And, of course, "lynch my voters before or after my claim" + "I'll be back in 3 hours"? Just giving him time to think over things.

[bv310]

[Totally gonna go off topic and answer bv: 25th Anniversary Les Mis can go die in a hole. 1988 Symphonic Recording is where it's at. Phillip Quast = GREATEST JAVERT EVER. I did enjoy the 25th Anniversary Phantom, though, as much as I can enjoy Phantom of the Opera.]

BV: Other than the shos WIFOM thing, is there any reason you suspect him? What do you think of funky?

[I liked parts of the 25th. Enjolras and Valjean were good, Marius was terrible. Also, how did you find the movie?]

Shos stands out to me almost purely on attitude. I feel that the taunting/joking comes across wrong, and I think that his wagon is going to get us some really good information. I feel that my vote is well-placed for now, though I am willing to give him a pass if we decide not to go that way. My suspicion of him is not 100% certainty.

Funky wasn't one that stood out to me before, but I went and read back over and I could support a wagon on him. I don't like his L-1 vote, especially if he's had bad experiences in the past. I don't like how he flipped on to Shos without his own reasoning, and I don't like him using random philosophical theories to explain part of his posting.

[Maemuki]

You mean when you said this? Where did you say it felt like sheeping? The part where you pointed out I voted after funky did? That just looks like a random observation.

And are you saying I didn't point out why I thought shos looked scummy?

You only voted after funky did. Which is the definition of sheeping. Are you following?

Also, yes.