Mini 1501: We're On A Boat! (END?! results inside)

[fferyllt]

Which part of the reasoning did I have?

[notscience]

The fanning the flames bit.

[fferyllt]

I can see why the neighborhood would make town-NotSci freaking paranoid.

Except he wasn't - until there was a wagon.

And you don't think that seeing other people voting and expressing concerns might fan niggles and reservations into flames?

This post?

[notscience]

Si.

[SleepyKrew]

Si without the accent means "if"

THE MORE YOU KNOW

[notscience]

Ik but I'm too lazy to get an accent

[pitoli]

Today, civilization is drowning in a sea of lies.
~ L. Neil Smith

VOTE COUNT 1.10

Spyrex:

Plum, Notscience

YYR:

fferyllt, CrashTextDummie

Empire:

Kazekimaru

ChannelDelibird:

Brian Skies

Kazekirimaru

: Garmr, SpyreX

Brian Skies:

ChannelDelibird, LolWagons, SleepyKrew

Not Voting:

YYR, Empire

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Time until deadline: (expired on 2013-10-17 00:00:00)

Mod Notes

: Still looking for a replacement for YYR... :/

[Empire]

If Brian flips scum, we get to see how partners reacted to his miller claim. In that instance, I think Kaze broadly avoiding taking a stance on it, as observed by Spyrex a couple of pages ago, might be useful as a buddy indicator.

Do you really think that's a thing? I think buddies of a scummillerfakeclaim would be more inclined to at least say something about it rather than avoid it altogether (it's probably a bit of really pretentious half baked theory, but I'm thinking pregame deliberated actions like that would compel scum to say something because it gives them an easy way to enter the game).

As far as why I'm not voting anyone yet, it's because I've been put in this awkward dilemma. I usually like to gauge early reads based on how people are reading the way I'm playing. The problem is that I claimed my role with a terrible opening post and I haven't done anything to seem town. On the contrary, I've been playing pretty poorly and I'm a miller. Although I want people to read me as town, I can't tell if it's because they legitimately believe me, buddying me, or trying to use my flip as an excuse to get towncred. On the other hand, I can't tell if people that are reading me as scum are trying to push a mislynch on me or if they're legitimately reading me as scum for my play. And then there's Spyrex, who isn't even reading me at all.

Man, this actually reads really really genuine to me...which leaves me not really sure what's going on in this game anymore.

[Empire]

I've been liking Kaze as town thus far, so I don't really have an issue with this read as a whole. The only problem is that he doesn't understand why people were voting him. People thought he was scummy, so they pressured him. There could also have been scum voting him. It's nitpicking, but it's meh to me.

Other than that, it's mostly based on meta that I'm unfamiliar with. And it feels somewhat informed, but he might just be that strong of a player. His posts read like town posts and I would like for him to be town. But to be honest, I'm not confident in reading him at all, especially with such a small sample to base my read off of. Not to mention he replaced Maestro who just lurked all day. Regardless, the basis for his reads make sense to me. The null-read on Smudger especially reads genuine to me. I'm willing to call him town for now.

I don't think it's as simple as pressure voting...or at least it seemed that way to me at the time. Tossing a vote down "for pressure" is an incredibly easy way for scum to hide and ride on an easy wagon.
Also, see my response to Kaze way back about the whole "ignorance being faked" thing.
What is it about the Smudger-null-read that read genuine to you?

@SK: That hurts my feelings a bit. But if town can find the scumteam off my death, then so be it. You already have my claim, so town can just lynch away.

This, though...ugh.

---

Fully caught up with the game now but I definitely need to reread a lot of things. My strong townreads are still firm but I want to go through some of the weaker ones before I lay down a vote.
ffery's case is probably a way more eloquent explanation of what pinged me about YYR but the dude's getting replaced so hopefully there will be more data from that slot.

[Brian Skies]

What is it about the Smudger-null-read that read genuine to you?

I'm assuming your read was only based on Smudger at this point. A lot of Smudger's actions looked scummy at first glance, but when attacked about it, he didn't seem to care. He continuously expressed the attitude of "so what?" I feel like scum would be more sensitive about how people view them. The conflict between his actions and his attitude when attacked about his actions gave me a null-read of the slot. Also, despite being extremely verbose, I had extreme difficulty spotting contradictions (as in nothing jumps out at me). Also, he asked questions and pushed back. The reason why I thought your read of him was genuine was because it was something I felt as well. Smudger was a person I couldn't wrap my head around. Since replacing in, Lolwagons has appeared town to me. I liked his entrance post a lot.

I don't have any scumhunting techniques for Day 1. But if you ask me questions, I will formulate opinions and respond to them when I get the chance.

Also, SK worries me a bit. Now that attention has shifted away from her, she's already resorting to a utility lynch. It'd make more sense to push a lynch on somebody you are reading as scum. But if she thinks I'm scum, that's cool too. In which case, she should have just said that instead.

[Kazekirimaru]

I request replacement.

I'm sorry, pitoli. RL is lame. Thanks for modding and thanks for having me.

[pitoli]

Okay ;____;

Searching for replacements for YYR and Kazekirimaru.

[SpyreX]

When I found out I was a neighbour I instantly looked it up on the Wiki. I instantly thought scum-town, but I wanted to give him the chance to try and prove himself. When I got into the QT, he seemed a bit too into the whole town-town bit. All a neighborhood is is a night connection between 2 players. We don't know each other's alignment. But, he seemed all too ready to townread me which really bugs me.

bawk bawk

There is a total of 1 post from us each. His, the first, consists of calling me scum. I have said as close to verbatim mine as I can get.

Unvote, Vote: NS

This isn't an accident anymore

[pitoli]

Dorcas replaces YYR! Let's welcome them to the game.

[SleepyKrew]

ns what does your neighborhood post say?

I am a guy. That is why it says Gender: Male on all my posts. Can't a guy have a Princess Leia avatar?

[notscience]

"Sup, scum"

[Plum]

Sorry for the sparse activity. I've been super busy and stressed with school. Going to do my best tonight.

Thats not what I'm getting at. If me changing my vote is suspect why would I do it as scum? If I'm scum, every interaction is for a reason. There isn't a good one there because I'm not.

Your previous strategy of sitting back and calling for a not-too-distant-future SK lynching was obviously less tenable than a 180. It doesn't make your tee-hee avoidance of voting SK or doing anything to progress the game to the point of your vote switch more acceptable, especially when your stated reason - that the wagon had too much steam as it was - wasn't relevant. The sort of position you took on the Aero/SK wagon was easily able to be abused according to gameflow. I thought the Aero wagon was bad and based on very shallow reasoning. That sort of early wagon with that sort of player could become a viable Day 1 lynch or become completely unviable as a target. Voting changes the way a wagon works and moves, and how you're held accountable for wagon flow and shift over time. You set up an opportunistic approach while avoiding scumhunting or progressing the game. That's a tactic. And that's scummy.

And your underlined... what? The 'baseline' is already in swing of a random player being town - I make reference to that being a general default. The 'baseline' of Neighborhoods is, by a margin, more likely to be town. Enough that I'm willing to roll with it until otherwise proven. Like this game.

Being in a Neighborhood correlates with being Town. Being in a mini Normal definitely correlates with being Town. I'm not so sure that the first is a significantly stronger correlation than the second. But:

Because I initially wanted to try and keep it a secret but then paranoia got the better of me.

Wait wait. I read the thing that tripped the switch given prior paranoia was the called Townread of you (along with a bunch of others). Am I reading right here?

Plum, any reads on someone not named Spyrex?

Ask and ye shall receive. Glad I have time for this tonight/no motivation to study for my molecular genetics exam.

Brian issues:

Also, I forgot to mention YYR. I could be hypocritical and say he's scummy for the reasoning you provided. Considering how I've been playing this game, I owe it to him to at least come in, defend himself, and make a case for himself being town. But by PoE, he's not looking too good at all right now.

First time he mentioned YYR. Whaaaaat. Does this even make any sense??? And he says he likes Empire's points against

@SK: That hurts my feelings a bit. But if town can find the scumteam off my death, then so be it. You already have my claim, so town can just lynch away.

Also, of the players not in my townpile, this is the one I'm most comfortable with voting right now:

VOTE: CDB

It pings the gut.

First sentence seems full of 'I don't care about being lynched! Really! That's how you know I'm really Town and you shouldn't lynch me!', especially since he's not done much if any scumhunting off his own wagon. The CDB vote is really weird. It's not a wagon likely to happen, so it almost looks like his first priority with it isn't self-preservation. But it's not only lazy, it's not something that's going to progress the game, not only because of where the lone vote is placed, but because 'pings the gut' won't make anyone say anything. Except this. Basically, what could he realistically expect it to achieve besides getting people off his back about not voting?

Speaking of, Empire came in with a whole bunch of reads but now he has no scumread he's even comfortable placing a vote on? Seriously? He's got a list of Townreads a mile long he's apparently wedded to, though. Oh yeah.

CDB himself has pretty much had no suspects outside of Brian and pretty limited contributions overall, muddling around with null reads and coasting on fairly low-risk, low-attention interactions.

[SpyreX]

Your previous strategy of sitting back and calling for a not-too-distant-future SK lynching was obviously less tenable than a 180. It doesn't make your tee-hee avoidance of voting SK or doing anything to progress the game to the point of your vote switch more acceptable, especially when your stated reason - that the wagon had too much steam as it was - wasn't relevant. The sort of position you took on the Aero/SK wagon was easily able to be abused according to gameflow. I thought the Aero wagon was bad and based on very shallow reasoning. That sort of early wagon with that sort of player could become a viable Day 1 lynch or become completely unviable as a target. Voting changes the way a wagon works and moves, and how you're held accountable for wagon flow and shift over time. You set up an opportunistic approach while avoiding scumhunting or progressing the game. That's a tactic. And that's scummy.

I'm a firm believer that intent matters a whole lot more than vote. There's no way I could 180 off that after saying its what I wanted far stronger than a simple vote (see the discussion here versus if I had simply hopped on then hopped off).

Initially, when I stated my intent, Aero had "steam" because that was a garbage vote. Page 2 jokevote that puts someone into striking range? That's gonna garner votes and fast as it did. I didn't want the reverberation from that to turn into a 4 page d1 as fun as that would be (and, if I was scum, thats pretty much a golden dream).

But, we can go back and forth on that because you're sooo close here:

Wait wait. I read the thing that tripped the switch given prior paranoia was the called Townread of you (along with a bunch of others). Am I reading right here?

I'm not crazy. You are reading what happened with NS. It is as nonsense as it sounds considering I said that to him before the game started and it came out on the wagon.

[Plum]

In case it's not clear, I meant the called Townread

in the thread

and I know what you said in your qt. Just want to ask NS here.

[pitoli]

Peabody is replacing in for Kazekirimaru. Yay!

[Peabody]

Hi. I'm Kaze's replacement.

I will be helping you find scum. You're welcome.

[Garmr]

Well Hey there peabody. I suspect your slot as scum convince me otherwise.

[pitoli]

LolWagons prodded.

[LolWagons]

Here, sorry. I just burnt my hand on a stove top and now have a nice second degree burn. I'll try to keep up with the game but posts will be short for a bit for what should be ovious reasons.

[LolWagons]

For starters what do you think of the YY slot Plum?