Newbie 1437 - Chocolate Fondue Mafia (Over)

[Fart Bane]

My vote for not science was to put some pressure into her explain her meta based argument.

[Mr. Flay]

Or is there some sort of disadvantage to town for dragging the phase on too long?

I *hate* when a game drags it out to the end just because "we have time" it kills momentum and generally the logic in the last 24-48 (sometimes 72) hours of a deadline tends to start to get really shifty. Everybody starts to rely on "well we have to lynch SOMEBODY!". That all said, we have plenty of time right now to consider. I'm not ready for a lynch without hearing more from some of the people who were quiet over the weekend. I also need to look more closely at TAM and FB, they're rubbing me the suspicious way...

EBWOP is (or should be) in the Abbreviations page on the wiki. Editing By Way Of Posting, since you can't edit your words in Mafia game threads.

How is it that you had time to link this page, but didn't have time to actually look at it and check to see if EBWOP was on the page?

I was on my phone... I've been to that page a hundred times (my title used to be WiKid), but I couldn't be certain that it really was there without loading yet another tab.

Mr. Flay, I have to ask what you think of jmo16's very candid "no one vote me. kthx" post in 39? Do you think that sounds like something mafia would post, or town? I sense a calm townie frustration there, at least, much more than I discern a sweating mafia player.

Dunno. I see a lot of mafia players very calm at L-1 *if* their buddy is on the wagon, or is one of the ones threatening to vote but isn't yet. I see a lot more sweat from Town at L-1 overall, but it's a pretty minor tell in my opinion. Nobody likes getting lynched, but jmo could reasonably expect nobody to hammer on P3 after he announced where the VC was.

[Mr. Flay]

Perhaps maybe a claim by not science.

Absolutely no one should hammer without giving notsci a chance to claim. General practice these days is that someone declares they're actually prepared to hammer the L-1 person before they're required to claim (I find it a little tedious, as sometimes the claim is what brings the hammer, but w/e).

[Mr. Flay]

Sorry for the triple post...

t's good of you to question that, however. I feel much more comfortable with you as a townie after this post and post 81 in particular. I will now proceed to try to get you to vote The Acting Method with me as I feel most strongly that he is mafia. Will you vote him with me?

I'm going to chalk up the weird phrasing here to a formal posting style, given your 'gentlemen' affectation. Anyway, yes, build a case on TAM (using only completed games or this one!) and we'll talk about it. He's definitely on my list now for being so reserved.

Still, the biggest thing was trying to revert to RVS. That is not the mark of a strong player, particularly one who says they are good as town.

What would you have done instead, if the RQS instigator had basically given a vague non-answer when asked if they'd found any answers?

Basically exactly what I did - build a small case, see how the suspect and the group react to it, rinse and repeat. I detest RVS and will stir up shit to avoid it. I'm sure I've randomly voted in a game in the last five years (before notsci goes looking), but I prefer almost any other method.

With all of that said, the questions this time were fairly weak for actually doing anything to start the game, and I haven't actually seen TAM give ANY analysis of the answers, vague or otherwise. Looking at his ISO he's basically stalled the entire game on actually contributing.

MFOS: TAM

[The Acting Method]

I generally use the answers I've gotten in one of two ways, either A: someone says something that is completely controversial and interrogate them ruthlessly with occasional looks at others but focused on them. or B: Somewhere in the mid-game, when I have had time to place words to action I hop on something off.

I can give you direct evidence of both. (I even had specific events in mind)

And please explain where I said I wanted to "revert to RVS stage"? Because I don't recall saying that.

Now, off to do my ISO's.

Oh and for those wondering, Flay just Mega finger of suspicion'ed me.

[DeasVail]

Vote Count 1.05

notscience (3)- Mr. Flay, Fart Bane, The-Duck
jmo16mla (1)- The Acting Method
Fart Bane (1)- jmo16mla
Mr. Flay(1)- notscience
The Acting Method (1)- zakk

Not voting: Endernys, Number_0ne

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Prods

Endernys

Deadline

21st October, 3pm AEDT. This is in (expired on 2013-10-21 00:00:00)

[Mr. Flay]

And please explain where I said I wanted to "revert to RVS stage"? Because I don't recall saying that.

Huh? If you're referencing 116/41, that quote is talking about jmo16mla's 34.

For you, I want to know what you've gotten out of your RQS in this game so far. I don't want examples from other games, I'm already a drinker of the RQS koolaid.

[jmo16mla]

flay, do you not see banes vote on NS as oportunistic?

[The Acting Method]

Endernys: Null, not enough info to go off of. Hasn't posted yet today but other than that no real noticable RQS inaccuracies.

Fart Bane: 46: I agree this sounds interesting. Will you stop making jokes about Flay's title? Seems town.

jmo: Gut town read. May change later... feels different than when I IC'ed him.

Mr. Flay: Gut town read, very townie to me... Of course, I might be committing the same mistake I made my very first game on site. But right now Flays town.

Notscience: Feels town to me.

Side note: not too happy with so many town reads.

Number_0ne: I'm leaning scum on him.

The-Duck: I'm leaning towards town on him.

Zakk: Zakk feels a little scummy, but something about his last vote seems town. Also, even the slightest meta research done on me in n00bs shows all of his complaints as null. His vote on me seems very scum mindset. Also, I don't like his attitude like he knows he's going to get killed soon. With to my recollection, no votes on him, nothing really to point him out. I wouldn't expect him to be dying soon. Don't see town motivation in saying something like that with no reason.


Not supporting a Notscience lynch.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Number_One


Also, @Flay: At present I haven't gotten anything that I can use straight off the bat from my RQS. I've explained how my RQS is designed up above, we are currently in more of a way two I'm feeling from how my Iso went through. I may go and read through the Iso's again to see if there was anything I see that I missed last time.

But right now, Number_0ne and Zakk are my two top scumspects.

[zakk]

Dear The Acting Method,

I notice, with a severe deficiency of amusement, your complete lack of reasoning for the vast majority of those reads you just posted. As for your "scumspects," I know I'm town and I have a town read on Number_0ne, so needless to say, I'm strongly in disagreement with them, and I'd like to know how you got them. Please don't disappoint.

Sincerely,
zakk

[Mr. Flay]

flay, do you not see banes vote on NS as oportunistic?

...*shrug* I mean, it's a little opportunistic, but right now it just reads as newbie to me. He waited for notsci to reply, wasn't satisfied with the reply, and voted. I'd like to see more out of him, true, but he's not the only one by far. Since he agrees with me today, I'm unlikely to switch to voting him. Should notsci flip Town, all bets are off, obviously.

Speaking of which, I agree with zakk, but I really want to see more about why TAM is voting N1 instead of zakk, since he built more of a case on zakk.

[Mr. Flay]

Hello...? I know we're waiting on a prod, but that shouldn't mean we stop talking or waste time. Two weeks is faster than you'd think.

[The-Duck]

Zakk, regarding your case on TAM, it looks like it is just a playstyle-tell you are getting from him. Although I agree his lack of reasoning for thinking Number_0ne is scum is suspicious.
At this point I'm more worried about NS and Jmo,
NS has made that case on flay, which he didn't defend at all. This looks like he made it just to appear active and trying to find scum, and dropping it on the slightest rebuttal is not something I expect from someone who believes in what he wrote. Further, he has not done anything more, except asking some questions, and not following them up.
Jmo has not been scumhunting at all this game, and he's not taking any stances on anything.
I feel like he removed his vote from NS as soon as the wagon started to gain some momentum, and tries to slightly encourage Flay to remove his vote as well, because Fart Bane's vote would be opportunistic. Can any of you explain why it is opportunistic? I'm not seeing it, because if his vote is opportunistic, mine should be as well, right?

Number_0ne is quite reactive, he doesn't seem to be actively trying to find scum. He's providing us with his thoughts, but seemingly only when asked to.. If he doesn't get more proactive I could see myself lynching him later.

Fart Bane is annoying with his one-liner posting sprees, but his questions seem genuine and he looks like he's trying. I like 87, because he is looking for reasons as to why flay put Jmo to L-1, as well as trying to question NS on his case. He's likely to be town

Flay, although I was not sure if it was just a miscount of the votes early on that made you put Jmo to L-1, your subsequent play has read town to me.

Zakk is also town in my opinion. He's providing reasoning for what he does, is not afraid to be uncertain of his reads, and he's actively trying to get his preferred lynch to happen.

[notscience]

I'm pretty sure I don't have any tells that blatant... I'm a case-based player, not gut-based, like I said. That works for me as scum or town.

... I'm still waiting for that case, I hope. Basically all you've said so far is "he asked for cases or suspects from people who aren't stating their suspects or cases yet!" If you've got more, now is the time to bring it.

Wrong. I'm saying you're using policies that didn't seem remotely important to you in our other games. Where you were town.

Love all the townreads I have on my wagon btw- oh, wait.

[DeasVail]

Replacing Endernys.

[Number_0ne]

Well, let's see what I've missed. Jmo seems to have not provided much information, and my initial town read on him has changed, as I'm finding him to be a bit scummy.

Mr. Flay is looking pretty town to me now, given his recent posts.

I'm neutral on the-duck and zakk at the moment. Can't really tell what side they're on.

My feelings towards notscience being scum have diminished, given his responses to Fart Bane, although not entirely.

Fart Bane also is seeming a bit scummy over his reasoning on notscience. Still, I don't see enough at the moment to justify a vote.

TAM could be a playstyle thing, like what The-Duck said. Unfortunately, I cannot address any of his suspicions against me when I don't know what they are. Still, he looks town to me.

Endernys...I don't even know.

For now, I'll

Vote: Jmo

mostly out of my instinct. I'm finding his play to be evasive, by not providing at least a bit of insight or giving reasons.

[The Acting Method]

Dear The Acting Method,

I notice, with a severe deficiency of amusement, your complete lack of reasoning for the vast majority of those reads you just posted. As for your "scumspects," I know I'm town and I have a town read on Number_0ne, so needless to say, I'm strongly in disagreement with them, and I'd like to know how you got them. Please don't disappoint.

Sincerely,
zakk

Dear Zakk,

I note your severe amount of buddying with Number, and he (like most of my reads at present) is a gut read. I'm not seeing town motivation in him and I'm having a very strong gut against him.

Thank you for confirming the scumminess of both yourself and zakk with your last post.

TAM.

(also, I love how detached your quoted post is. It's so obviously fake that I could see it from here.)

[jmo16mla]

Well, let's see what I've missed. Jmo seems to have not provided much information, and my initial town read on him has changed, as I'm finding him to be a bit scummy.

Mr. Flay is looking pretty town to me now, given his recent posts.

I'm neutral on the-duck and zakk at the moment. Can't really tell what side they're on.

My feelings towards notscience being scum have diminished, given his responses to Fart Bane, although not entirely.

Fart Bane also is seeming a bit scummy over his reasoning on notscience. Still, I don't see enough at the moment to justify a vote.

TAM could be a playstyle thing, like what The-Duck said. Unfortunately, I cannot address any of his suspicions against me when I don't know what they are. Still, he looks town to me.

Endernys...I don't even know.

For now, I'll

Vote: Jmo

mostly out of my instinct. I'm finding his play to be evasive, by not providing at least a bit of insight or giving reasons.

pstt. you should vote bane.

[Mr. Flay]

I really want to see more about why TAM is voting N1 instead of zakk, since he built more of a case on zakk.

[Mr. Flay]

In other words, what is your gut telling you? You say "not seeing town motivation in him" but fail to explain what that even means, let alone where you see it. Also you appear to be trying to build a scumteam when we haven't even found one scum yet.

[The Acting Method]

I'm trying to remember the exact things, and it may require me to take another look at his ISO. As It was definitely a feeling I was getting from his posts. I know that in my head when I made the vote, I had them at about equal scumminess.


And I'm only suggesting them as scumbuddies from Zakk's actions after my vote for number one. There's a connection there.

[jmo16mla]

Then go back and look. Stop playing around and saying I think I believe if I remember.

VOTE: The Acting Method

[DeasVail]

Mindgamer replaces Endernys.

[Mr. Flay]

Welcome Mindgamer.

Thats L-1, please declare intent to hammer before doing so!

Also, I just noticed you miscounted. jmo16mla switched to Fart Bane in 109, so notsci never got above L-2. The Vote Count is correct. If we don't have the votes soon we're going to have to start talking compromise; votes are too spread out for five days left.

[Mindgamer]

Hi everyone.

Jmo wagon (page 2)

The game was stalling a bit, until Flay made the first push. A wagon was formed, after which Flay drew conclusions from every player's reactions to the wagon. This is how a good townie should play and I townread Flay for it.

Notscience wagon (current)

Another wagon that Flay started. I do not feel this wagon is strong, however. Most voters point towards Notscience's absence of good content, rather than the presence of scummy content. For that reason, I will not support it. I'd rather look for actual scummy behaviour.

One of the reactions that catches my eye is this one:

Endernys: Null, not enough info to go off of. Hasn't posted yet today but other than that no real noticable RQS inaccuracies.

Fart Bane: 46: I agree this sounds interesting. Will you stop making jokes about Flay's title? Seems town.

jmo: Gut town read. May change later... feels different than when I IC'ed him.

Mr. Flay: Gut town read, very townie to me... Of course, I might be committing the same mistake I made my very first game on site. But right now Flays town.

Notscience: Feels town to me.

Side note: not too happy with so many town reads.

Number_0ne: I'm leaning scum on him.

The-Duck: I'm leaning towards town on him.

Zakk: Zakk feels a little scummy, but something about his last vote seems town. Also, even the slightest meta research done on me in n00bs shows all of his complaints as null. His vote on me seems very scum mindset. Also, I don't like his attitude like he knows he's going to get killed soon. With to my recollection, no votes on him, nothing really to point him out. I wouldn't expect him to be dying soon. Don't see town motivation in saying something like that with no reason.


Not supporting a Notscience lynch.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Number_One


Also, @Flay: At present I haven't gotten anything that I can use straight off the bat from my RQS. I've explained how my RQS is designed up above, we are currently in more of a way two I'm feeling from how my Iso went through. I may go and read through the Iso's again to see if there was anything I see that I missed last time.

But right now, Number_0ne and Zakk are my two top scumspects.

You go against the flow of the Notscience wagon. But you don't provide any reasoning, you just decide on a 'gut feeling' that you haven't expressed before. Instead, you vote someone that has no votes on them. And again, you didn't express suspicions on N1 before. I feel this is an empty response to the Notscience wagon. You think Notscience is town, but you aren't making any effort to prevent his lynch. You scumread and vote a clean slot, but make zero effort to start a wagon.

The Acting Method was also the one to start the random question stage, but didn't do anything with those questions until Duck commented on it. The random questions are usually used to get discussion going early game, not late game as TAM is claiming. I find this to be another reason to be suspicious of TAM.

These two thoughts lead me to here:

Vote: The Acting Method

I play with the best and consider myself to be one of the better players on site.

Didn't realize it been three days. Il post later.

You claim to be one of the best players, yet your posts are severely lacking not only quality but also quantity. Please tell what makes you one of the better players on site.