A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Cephrir]

Also, you don't want me in your townblock because you and I are disagreeing, but you do want Stupendous, who couldn't scumhunt his way out of a paper bag? For real?

I don't understand what this is. What do you think a townblock is and what was going through your head when you asked me these questions?

Also it sounds like you're saying Stup can't be town because he can't scumhunt, but that would be ridiculous. So what were you actually trying to say?

What's the point of a townblock if not to work together to figure out who the scum are? Can one not call someone town without including them in such a group? I guess I could be wrong here.

On first read your original post sounded like it was calling me town but on a different wavelength, though I suppose given your past posts this probably isn't what you meant.

Yes, there is scum motivation. Town do still do it, though. I'm sure I could easily produce examples of this too if I felt like it. It's not enough to lynch on. I understand there are unrelated suspicions on the slot, and that's legitimate.

It's ironic that you won't brook any counterargument for lynching SpyreX when, you know, you're lynching him for lynching someone without waiting for a counterargument.

And frankly I find the "here's two examples of deliberate scum quickhammers so that must be what's happeneing here" logic disingenuous.

That isn't what irony is and the two situations aren't even remotely comparable.

And what I presented isn't "logic," it's evidence--that scum can and will take opportunities to quickhammer if it benefits them, especially if they think they can talk their way out of it on the other side (which Spyrex clearly does). And given the limited information Spy has provided, the quickhammer

only

benefitted him as scum.

The situations are very comparable, even if "counterargument" wasn't incredibly good word choice on my part. The no-matter-what attitude precludes claims.

No shit. I could provide evidence via two examples for a lot of things that could easily not apply to this game.

I'm going to reiterate that:

the quickhammer

only

benefitted him if he got a scum role PM.

If he really was town whose power hinges on his having the (or multiple) hammer(s), he could have just...waited. And hammered later. But he didn't. Because he's scum.

- Des

You're right, it is literally impossible that town would do this.

Oh wait no town quickhammer all the time.

Not everyone acts in a way that benefits them all the time. Actors are not perfectly rational. This argument is fucking terrible. And there are decent arguments for the same thing floating around but you're still latching on to the one easy, really salient point. Color me unimpressed.

[Alfred Borden]

Because the end of Day 1 is the kind of thing the scum-sandman sends to good baby scums each night when they deserve extra happy dreams.

Assuming you're not under heat as scum the only thing better than a bad lynch is no lynch at all. Given their druthers, scum would have left that claim alive forever. That end-of-day mad push was very town feeling most of the way through.

Ok, I'm not sure if it's because I'm dumb or what but I had to read this a few times and I'm not sure I fully get what you're saying here. Are you saying that scum would have been more likely to let it slide into a no lynch? Because that just seems like an overly simplistic way of looking at it + not what actually happens at least from my experience. I'd have to take a look at the wagon again to see if this was actually the case here but the veil of deadline seems like a super easy thing for scum to hide behind (bonus because Thor was a miller claim too) as they can just plop down reasonless votes without scrutiny.

@Alfred:

Meta seems to be your department - Did you get time to do the peace old games meta?

Unfortunately, not yet. I only looked at the replace-out thing but there really wasn't enough info on that front. And frankly I'm not sure that diving fully into those games would give an accurate picture of his meta -- dude just doesn't really have enough games since his return, doubly so considering one of his scum games was cut short. I guess I could look at his old games but if I remember correctly the last game he played since his return to the site was in 2006 which is just way too long ago.

[Alfred Borden]

I've been considering what to say because ooba's responses have made me a little more depressed at the idea of an ooba wagon working, also because I don't think they're bad, even if I agree with like.. none of his reads beyond the obvious ones. Come on ooba, just admit your Messiah case is better and stop joining the hammer outrage, it makes you look bad in general.

This bit just bugs the ever living shit out of me and I have no idea why and I hate myself for it.

Before I read on this I just want to talk about how this bothers me. He thinks mollie was killed because she was starting to coordinate the townblock and yet makes no effort to coordinate one himself?

I'll have some more to say about your other reads as they come to me but I don't really think this is that big of a deal? If you were thinking about Wingate Mansion here, Desperado in this game at least feels like he just gives way more of a shit about the game -- in that game, he just seemed cold / detached. And I remember in that game he just strung together a bunch of names, called it a town bloc, but did nothing to work with them or further those reads. So in that context, I like the fact that he's coming forward and saying he's struggling (mostly, though, he just sounds very passionate and is comes off as town to me).
By the way, I'm pretty sure you forgot to mention your quadz read and I don't really get your Shadoweh read. Want to talk about these a little more?

Glass Towers, I don't have much meaningful to add to Nautilus' analysis of Andrius. Though for the sake of concision: Andrius' play was null. I see nothing in his ISO that's beyond his faking abilities as scum.

Well, the main reason I asked is because Llamarble and I have been going back and forth on it. Honestly, every time I take a look at his ISO, I do get some townpings. I liked the bit where he talked about how he wanted to be more careful in reading Tierce as it was a pretty stark contrast to the way he approached my slot in The Game That Won't Be Mentioned where he just basically excessively sucked up to us. As far as the PR thing goes, I don't know, my impression is that he wouldn't have the balls to fake it as scum "to prove a point" either. Basically what I guess I'm asking with all of this is do you really think he's competent enough to fake this the way that he did? Because my impression from That Game was that he's actually really bad at scum.

You should probably just vote for Spyrex.

Don't feel like it, sorry m8.

[Shadoweh]

Reckoner quickhammers TWICE, gets away with it, endgames town in LYLO (A+ fakeclaim) for the W
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=30429
I quickhammer the unclaimed town BG, teammates endgame town in LYLO for the W
The bottom line is that Spyrex's hammer is

teeming

with scum motivation, and the fact that your counterargument is literally "Town still trollhammer so it's null, try harder!" is totally and completely asinine. We're lynching Spyrex today, end of story.
- Des

"I got burned by someone quickhammering multiple times as scum in a game they started in, and I quickhammered someone with a blank vote once as scum, therefore everyone who quickhammers ever has scum motivation especially when it's someone who just replaced into a 85 page game they admitted to not reading." You know. I don't think you could make this kind of thought process up, it's crazy stubborn and you're a stubborn kind of guy. Cephrir's responses are pretty much what I want to say. You're taking your own thought, which appears to be that if you were to do a quickhammer it would be super scum motivated, plus something that happened recently, and deciding that means it happening again is a 100% scumtell. They're not the same situation.

ilu too Alfred even though you wouldn't let me into your cave door. Probably because it's badly worded. I think ooba's responses are town-good, and I hate having to rethink a good case after finally getting ahold of something. And to me there are seven people wasting our day by pursuing a wagon with the same reasoning, like the anti-hammer clone army. I don't know who to vote again and it's pretty frustrating.

Re 3rd party lulz, it's a running joke that I can't live past Day 2 as third party. I've had all of one good 3rd party game here and I still screwed up the ending. <_<

[AGar]

I'm going to reiterate that:

the quickhammer

only

benefitted him if he got a scum role PM.

This isn't entirely true: Garruk had put a 12-hour timer on the hammer. Other people were vocally frustrated with Amrun and not quite there on voting yet. Someone else could've easily swooped in pulled the trigger (I was taking a calculated gamble putting that L-1 vote on Amrun, but I was worried about the wrong subset of players - and when Garruk put the twelve hour cap on, I decided to leave the vote and go to bed. I wasn't aware of SpyreX's fast-hammer tendencies).

AGar - I don't have a strong read here, but him putting Amrun at L-1 was bad.

Do you care to expound with your own reasoning behind this, or are you just sheeping the general groupthink because you have no real opinions of your own?

[SpyreX]

I don't see why she (or anyone, including me) wouldn't think that "I have a scumread on Amrun" is one of those "too many reasons".

As for the latter, no. Not everyone votes for a lynch. Ask the majority of the people in the Amrun wagon; people wanted to see content out of her, and pressure is one way to achieve it. But that wasn't even my point, my point was that a claim, flavor and role, may not only be relevant for alignment (as Faraday games have plenty of informative/investigative/knowledgeable roles that can confirm other people), but also, roles don't flip. It HELPS to have claims before lynches, and what a person claims to have DONE with their role is indeed relevant to alignment. You're neglecting all these very sensible, Town-based aspects relevant to someone wanting a claim in a uPick to try and paint elleheathen's stance as scummy.

I need to stop posting when I'm way too tired. I skip logical leaps.

The former was talking about the discussion we were just having when I said it would take some serious stones to be on that wagon and then play up shock and awe that it happened. I made reference to

her

being on that wagon. Somehow that turned into talking about "misrepping the dead" which after rereading

still doesn't make any sense

contextually. Its shadowboxing.

The pressure thing? Even if the argument is "votes for pressure" there's no magic switch between L-3 and L-2 thats going to make someone committing nothing go "ohh gee golly, NOW is the time."

But, EVEN THEN:

@Alfred - In your 2160 reads, you have Zdenek up there in what looks like a varying degree of towny pile. Help me out and give me some insight into that one. My list looks fairly similar (at least name wise) with Z as the one exception.

My lynch pile looks something like: zdenek/amrun/ooba/kanye - though it's also a 'would like more from' pile.

And since almost everyone on the lynch is one of my townreads, with I think the one exception already named:

VOTE: Amrun

I believe this is L-2?

I'm conflicted on the slot - I think there was a point where I was leaning town due to some of their responses but it's been covered up under all the excuses ever.

Content or claim, imo.

This isn't pressure. This is for death (or "claim"). Its not "I want more content or they need to die." It is "I want to lynch them and additionally some more content before they are lynched".

Which, in and of itself is fine.

What isn't, and I guess when I through my hammer I should have put my super secret breadrcumb that said "THE SCUM ON THIS WAGON WILL VOTE ME TOMORROW IF THIS ISNT A PRO HAMMER ON SCUM" because voting for the wagon and then tsk, tsk voting after is the path of least resistance. Hell, when she voted she was already placing 'blame' on all her town reads being on the wagon.

--------------

That isn't what irony is and the two situations aren't even remotely comparable.

And what I presented isn't "logic," it's evidence--that scum can and will take opportunities to quickhammer if it benefits them, especially if they think they can talk their way out of it on the other side (which Spyrex clearly does). And given the limited information Spy has provided, the quickhammer only benefitted him as scum.

I'm going to reiterate that: the quickhammer only benefitted him if he got a scum role PM.

If he really was town whose power hinges on his having the (or multiple) hammer(s), he could have just...waited. And hammered later. But he didn't. Because he's scum.

Ok, since I'm not convinced yet this is a scum crusade we'll go ahead and lay it out like this:

If I were to go through my game history and find examples of me doing exactly this as either alignment (I may? have even done this as cult and SK before) - what is your new argument? You've laid down an absolute, and short of some form of "bad player lolz" I'm not seeing your exit strategy.

If that isn't good enough and this game is going to continue I'll make you one more offer: If I am lynched and flip town, you get lynched next. Are you that committed to this nonsense?

If not, take a step back and look whats happening. You want to come at me for actual reasons, fine. This stops.

-----

ALL that said, I still don't prefer elle. Zdnek is my new preference over Agar by a ttinnny margin because 2429 is at least looking at what is happening. It could still be scum playing the long game but that doesn't seem smart when someone wants you dead a lot.

@Nacho et all:

What needs to happen to make my wish come true of the first group lynching the second group. HELP ME HELP YOU.

[AGar]

Curiosity SpyreX: You want me dead for the L-1 vote or for general play? Trying to get a gauge on who's actually, y'know, pursuing a case, and who's afraid to take on a POWERFUL WIZARD so taking the copout vote.

[quadz08]

Tierce, can you expound on that quadz vote, please? Is there more than meets the eye? (Not a dig, just your votes today have felt off-the-hip so I want to know if this one matches that profile or if you have deeper reasoning there)

They haven't really been off-the-hip--I've been trying to think things through, and occasionally it's only after I place a vote that I realize something and/or something happens that makes me change that read.


Anyway, on quadz--yes, he's perfectly allowed to have scumreads both on Nautilius and on SpyreX, but the form of the attack on Nacho for Nacho's stance on SpyreX was off. And his whole attack on Nacho over his latest posts is superficial; the things he has issue with make no sense from a Town PoV. Look at this:

AH AH AH NAUTILIUS WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR POSTING GOD AGH GET IT OFF GET IT OFF. (Seriously, you come into the thread with "x and y are town, oh and z wants to be town? sure she's town too" and

nothing else

? no fuck that
VOTE: Naut

First point: Nacho was replying to SpyreX's list of reads:

Benmage
Cephrir
Garruk Relentless
Messiah Complex
quadz08
Shadoweh
Tammy
Tierce

Tierce is town.
Shadoweh is town.
Messiah

feels

very, very town but I need to finish a reread to be sure.

...so Nacho doing "nothing else" doesn't really apply, as that kind of thing can be brief enough. And this very post states Nacho was rereading. quadz ignores this and attacks Nacho for the absence of more. See below, because this point has developments.

Second point: the Tammy/Nacho interaction...

AHEM.

and tammy's town too.

...was

clearly

a joke and it was obvious that Nacho already had a Townread on Tammy, so acting like that was what Nacho was

really

posting is a disingenuous misinterpretation of his post. (See my "pushover" joke after Nacho's post, etc.)

Note that quadz is complaining about one of two things: either Nacho is not explaining enough, or he is not scumhunting (what?). Then Nacho goes and performs a dissection of several ISOs and explains how several people are Town. quadz's complaint becomes that Nacho isn't posting cases, and that reads != cases. I... what? Not even going into theory nonsense here, Nacho

is

posting cases[/i]. Look at Nacho's ooba read. That is a "this person is Town and this is why" case if I ever saw one. He's also making "these things are scummy and this is why" statements. He has reads in flux and shows his work. And what is with this moving the goalposts nonsense? Nacho makes several beautifully detailed posts, but it's still not enough because he ought to do something else in quadz's perception? What of what Nacho

is

doing? Why doesn't quadz care about that? I believe that's what Cephrir is saying when he complains that quadz has no real opinion on Nacho's posts; he doesn't seem to care about the

content

of the posts, just that they are not tailored to some measure quadz keeps changing.

I'm going to say this very clearly -

Nautilius Did Not Explain His Scumreads

. This is the crux of the problem, and I apologize if that was not made clear in my earlier posts about Naut. He has not explained his scumreads since... actually, now that I look at his ISO, I don't actually see

any

explanation of a single vote Naut has made all game. Lots of calling people town with cases on why they are town, and then votes with no reasoning on any of them. I can overlook this on D1 cause it's D1, and I can assume the implied reasoning on the Amrun vote (he quotes amrun saying she's been busy in the same post he vote her). But seriously, if you're going to write a gigantic fucking set of posts on D3 of a large game,

surely you can come up with some goddamn reasons to vote someone

.
In regards to my point about his townlist after coming back into the game for the first time in 4 pages, I missed that he said he was finishing a re-read. I assume this re-read led up to his giant posts which still contained no reasons for any of his scumreads.

If somebody wants to prove me wrong and point out reasons he's given for his votes, please, be my guest. I sure as hell aren't finding them. And I frankly don't give a fuck how pretty and nice your town-cases are,

if you aren't giving reasoning for your scum reads, you aren't being town

.

[Benmage]

If you guys could stop fucking around and making stupid quicklynches that would be great. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer to lynch scum.

I've given my reasons for this vote,

and I'm sticking with it because they're scum.

VOTE: Nautilius

That is the worst way to help a "campaign" on the person you want to see hung.

How hard is it to type a few words or highlights as to why?? Is it not fresh enough in your memory? Do you not want to trip up?

Highlights:

Naut has done nothing to convince me they're town. But they have been too caring about self-image, unable to come up with their own cases, and lurking away from any pressure. Why are people not seeing this?

-'Nothing to convince their town'
A) Obviously very subjective.
B) Just fucking meh
-Self Image
A) Isn't everyone like that?
-Lurked from pressure
A) What pressure posts?
B) How did they lurk it?

*cough* weakassreasoning *cough* chestpuffing (gave reasons ) *cough*

[Benmage]

Zdenek bullet the spyrex's case please.

PeaceBringer got called scum and replaced out. My experience is that do this disproportionately more often than town. Aside from that despite posting quite a lot, there's nothing alignment indicative coming from PB.
Displaced did nothing.
Spyrex hammered Amrun. There's nothing town motived in that.
Plus his read on me looks contrived, since he's not scum reading you over your Thor interactions, but I'll admit that I'm biased there.

This reads a bit forced following my last statement. Looks like you just wanted to undermine here: post 2317

[Benmage]

Ah I like this game.

I just ctrl f'd my name on the pages I haven't read and people seem to be getting the message.

I'm surprised SpyreX has as many votes as he does...

Anyone wanna pass a succinct case my way, I'll actually read it.

-I still like an Agar lynch.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 3, Vc 8

SpyreX (7) -

Tammy, ooba, Zdenek, elleheathen, Goat on a Raft, Messiah Complex, Nautilius

AGar (5) -

Goat on a Raft, Benmage, Garruk Relentless, The Alchemist, Alfred Borden

Nautilius (2) -

StupendousMan, quadz08

ooba (2) -

Shadoweh, PrideandJoy

Zdenek (1) -

kanyeknowsbest

quadz08 (1) -

Tierce

Not voting (4)

:Cephrir, SpyreX, SafetyDance, AGar

With 21 alive it takes 11 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 25th of October at 16:05 EDT
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-10-25 04:30:01)
  
• elleheathen is V/la. Sd and AGar are V/la

Prodding PrideandJoy

[Benmage]

What is Tierce doing....

MOM the meatloaf!

[PrideandJoy]

Spyrex doesn't feel scum to me.

Also proddodge :/

[Benmage]

If not now, when?

The Giants season is dunzo.. but they're the only poor-record team that doesn't really need a QB.
-If the Giants can finish bottom 5, they have a real shot at landing Clowney. Imagine JPP and Clowney

Other bottom teams:

Bottom Teams that need QBS:
Jaguars
Bucs
Browns
Probably Vikings

Teams that don't need QB:
Falcons
Giants
Panthers
Bills
Jets
Redskins

I think the Giants could do poor enough. (Wish the Jets blew better than they do)

[Benmage]

Okay Thats a GD thread post miss post^

Mod

wanna delete these 2 posts?

[Tierce]

Hey look, Benedick quoted Pirkei Avot.

I think what Tierce is doing is pretty clear!

[Benmage]

I think what Tierce is doing is pretty clear!

Okay, then

why

is Tierce opting to be useless?

[Nautilius]

Oh my what a number of posts. I'm more than willing to full claim at this point if people want me too--I'd need to check with SSK, though.

I'm not sure how it would help.

Wow this is awful. Can you explain HOW spyrex totally could be and probably still is scum? You haven't actually presented anything saying why you think Spy is scummy except "he wouldn't have hammered in such a boring way." (So far as I can see, if I'm missing something, please point it out.) Even your gigantic post is full of nothing but townreads, with a bit tacked at the end that says "I'd lynch these three dudes but I ain't tellin' you why."

I started going through the playerlist in alphabetical order to see who I thought was town and who was scum. I ended up thinking the majority of the first half of the playerlist seemed town (but I wasn't finding many scumreads in the bottom half), so I started reassessing the townreads and taking away the ones I felt were weak. I don't like that you ended up pretty much ignoring the posts I did make, though. Is your basis of reading me "explaining his scumreads", or...?

ty 4 those posts nacho. im hpapy 2 talk about abt pbringer ne time

That time will probably come decently soon.

(and the scumreads were not presented as PoE either).

This is stupid.

What's so great about 753? I'm biased on this one, but whoever said scum couldn't be confident?

753 wasn't particularly amazing, but it was potent enough to make me double-take. I preferred the confidence in his poem post, or the occasional "mollie. I'm not scum.". I find CDB confidence reassuring because he's far and beyond more comfortable in his town game than his scum game; his scumgame usually ends up being very under the radar, very quiet.

I'm sure the claim is true, but I don't see why I should care- scum would want town to know a third party exists in all probability.

It's sort of a useless power for scum to have, don't you think? And not useless in the funny troll way, either.

I don't know what "deathrage" you're referring to. And what's left after that doesn't seem like enough for a townread to me.

#2253 is the deathrage reference.

Naut literally spent half of that span of posts explaining why 3 of his scumreads are town. My head hurts from even trying to comprehend what the fuck is going on there.

Where did I do that?

Current reads

This post was fucking horrible.

By the way, I'm pretty sure you forgot to mention your quadz read and I don't really get your Shadoweh read. Want to talk about these a little more?

When I have another posting rampage, sure!

@Nacho et all:

What needs to happen to make my wish come true of the first group lynching the second group. HELP ME HELP YOU.

Dreams of scumflips dance in my head but that's not gonna happen until I start sorting things out a little more.

[quadz08]

I started going through the playerlist in alphabetical order to see who I thought was town and who was scum. I ended up thinking the majority of the first half of the playerlist seemed town (but I wasn't finding many scumreads in the bottom half), so I started reassessing the townreads and taking away the ones I felt were weak. I don't like that you ended up pretty much ignoring the posts I did make, though. Is your basis of reading me "explaining his scumreads", or...?

So then... are your scumreads PoE? If they are, then ok, that's fine, but then I ask why there are people who you didn't put in either the town or scum camps. Also, yes, the primary basis of my read on you is that you have scumreads you aren't explaining.

[Nautilius]

Does me not being done with explaining my reads change that at all?

[Cephrir]

Alignment were randomised, so whether your character is The Great Other, or Ned Stark you have the same chance of drawing any anti town role. A large part of the design process was done before alignments were even considered (So roles came first, then the alignments), so bear that in mind, too. That is not to say certain changes may not have been made afterwards.

People really need to get this through their heads.

[Cephrir]

I see what you're talking about wrt 2253 but it sounds fakable and reminds me of something pertaining to an ongoing game.

[Goat on a Raft]

It has been a very busy day for this head. Words coming tomorrow.

[Messiah Complex]

What's the point of a townblock if not to work together to figure out who the scum are? Can one not call someone town without including them in such a group? I guess I could be wrong here.

On first read your original post sounded like it was calling me town but on a different wavelength, though I suppose given your past posts this probably isn't what you meant.

The point of a townblock is to not lynch town and lynch scum. Stup's ability to scumhunt is irrelevant. I don't understand your other question.

The situations are very comparable, even if "counterargument" wasn't incredibly good word choice on my part. The no-matter-what attitude precludes claims.

No, they aren't, and no, it doesn't. Do you really think I meant that I would not take new evidence into account whatsoever?

PS are you getting tired from all the goalposts that you're moving?

You're right, it is literally impossible that town would do this.

Oh wait no town quickhammer all the time.

Not everyone acts in a way that benefits them all the time. Actors are not perfectly rational. This argument is fucking terrible. And there are decent arguments for the same thing floating around but you're still latching on to the one easy, really salient point. Color me unimpressed.

I know town quickhammer all the time. Majiffy's dipshit quickhammer in Two Room II could have cost town the game if the scum ever got any NKs off. But

this

hammer, in

this specific situation

came from scum. Spyrex claims to have a role that interacts with hammers, and the town argument goes "He, as town, needed to hammer quickly in order to ensure he could access his ability." That is the extent of the town motivation for the quickhammer, and it is rendered moot with the counterargument "Garruk had already expressed intent with a timeline and no one else was likely to jump the gun, so town-Spyrex could have given Amrun enough time to produce her content but chose not to."

You're taking your own thought, which appears to be that if you were to do a quickhammer it would be super scum motivated, plus something that happened recently, and deciding that means it happening again is a 100% scumtell. They're not the same situation.

The actual act of hammering was not scummy. I am not disputing this. But the town motivation for doing it

when he did it, given what we know about his role

is nonexistent.

I'm going to reiterate that:

the quickhammer

only

benefitted him if he got a scum role PM.

This isn't entirely true: Garruk had put a 12-hour timer on the hammer. Other people were vocally frustrated with Amrun and not quite there on voting yet. Someone else could've easily swooped in pulled the trigger (I was taking a calculated gamble putting that L-1 vote on Amrun, but I was worried about the wrong subset of players - and when Garruk put the twelve hour cap on, I decided to leave the vote and go to bed. I wasn't aware of SpyreX's fast-hammer tendencies).

Obviously I don't agree. If anything I find it more likely that someone on the wagon who didn't really believe Amrun was scum and was just voting to pressure her for content would have unvoted before someone else quickhammered. And this speculation isn't even considering the possibility of Spyrex taking control of the hammer without outing himself, but maybe that's just me expecting too much.

If I were to go through my game history and find examples of me doing exactly this as either alignment (I may? have even done this as cult and SK before) - what is your new argument? You've laid down an absolute, and short of some form of "bad player lolz" I'm not seeing your exit strategy.

If that isn't good enough and this game is going to continue I'll make you one more offer: If I am lynched and flip town, you get lynched next. Are you that committed to this nonsense?

If not, take a step back and look whats happening. You want to come at me for actual reasons, fine. This stops.

I don't give a fuck if you have a history of quickhammering. Why? Because you have a history of quickhammering for situations precisely like this one--so you can pretend like you've defeated my argument by telling me you've done this before as town so LOL TRY AGAIN!!!!

No.

The fact that it even crossed your mind to offer this sort of deal when you (presumably) don't know my alignment is scummy as fuck. With that said, if you were to miraculously flip town, I would do the same thing I do every other time I lead a mislynch--forget about it and get back to finding scum.

- Des