Newbie 1425 Part Deux -- Game Over

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: cats

I'm not lynching rach or guyett. I want cats or Ray.

More later cuz Im phoneposting.

[Wisdom]

Okay.

Rach is town. This is her town meta, and we're not lynching her for any reason. She is typical lynchfodder every time she is town because of her weird playstyle which is scummy on its own.

Same goes for ArcAngel - this is town Arc. When you see her getting pissed about things and argue that they don't make sense when they actually make perfect sense (see Guyett's vote on her for not RVSing), she's town.

Guyett is town too. Like Rach, he is a player that naturally gives scumvibes when he's town. We're not letting scum lynch him.

IV and singer are probably town, though this is only gut as I don't have any kind of meta on them. I like IV's "I don't give a shit" attitude though, and I like singer's lines of questioning. Not completely sure about either, but not my top concerns right now.

RayFrost - I didn't bother to read most of his walls but the little I read gave me the impression he's forcing conclusions and trying to manipulate people - and judging from the townreads he acquired, he's succeeding. One such example was his "omg Arc is defending Rach, they are totally scumbuddies, there's no other explanation". The many townreads on him trouble me though, because it's possible that scum sheeped the townreads when they saw that town townreaded him.

Evil Regals - She's closer to null than scum, but there are some minor things I don't like, such as her sheeping the "Ray is so town" belief after at least two other people expressed it, and her Guyett vote. I want to see more content from her.

Cats - Just scum. First of all let me point out that I very much dislike his "you're all experienced except me" because it's pretty obvious from his posts that he's also experienced. Still, that's not a scumtell as even town alts would want to act as if they are not alts. But I felt like pointing it out because it's still hypocrisy. His posts look carefully structured, as if he's trying to make a good impression and appear town. I do not buy his "I didn't consider Arc's meta the first time" when he flip flopped on whether Arc's RVS actions made her scummy or not. There's no way you don't consider meta, especially when you've played half a game with the exact same players (or that's what I understood you guys did?). What's funny is he then proceeds to accuse Guyett of not considering meta. In 125, he claims he doesn't agree with RayFrost's reasons for Arc/Rach scum, and the "original" reason he gives is that they are scum because of their defending. Which was no different than RayFrost's reasons. "Scum know who they need to protect" - what the fuck is this bullshit? Nowadays scum

bus

, or otherwise

ignore

, they rarely

protect

their buddies. Forced conclusions, manipulation on the town to scumread Rach and Arc for total bullshit.

[ObsessedWithCats]

I play similar games over on another site where we take things much less seriously and we don't get anything that looks like scumhunting until things get dire, so I know the game in general but this is (a reroll of) my first ever game on here. But I like to know what I'm doing before I do it so I researched the game on the wiki while I waited to get into a game, and logic/structure is just the way I do things.

I genuinely didn't think to consider meta at first - I couldn't take in the whole wiki at once. I have no argument/excuse for that if you don't believe I'm new, so I'm going to have to let that argument lie. I may have been erroneous in my assumption that someone who's been playing longer than me would know to consider meta, but you just said yourself that meta is something we should know to consider so I guess not.

I didn't say I disagreed with Ray, just that it wasn't enough to convince me initially, and actually the posts that seriously caught my notice with Rach and ArcAngel backing each other up were after Ray's big post about them.

I slipped in a couple of places, true. But if you wont believe I'm new I can't convince you they were honest mistakes, and you're going to waste time going after me for them.

[Wisdom]

First, one of the major reasons I find RMarie scummy is the fact she was active lurking for the majority of the game (until she was called out for it and specifically told what content to provide). So this lurk lurk scum meta is in line with the case against her.

This is a blatant meta misrep - Rach active lurks as town.

Funny you decided to use meta here, after having posted tons of things that scream Rach-town and presenting them as scummy (such as her pushes for activity). I would excuse you if you had no idea about Rach's meta, but here you're claiming you do (although you're still wrong about it).

[RayFrost]

I didn't decide to use meta.

I was using what

arcangel was saying about RMarie's meta

for my comments because arc's entire reason for finding RMarie townish was the meta.

[Wisdom]

You said that you find Rach scummy because she's active lurking and that's in line with her "lurk lurk scum meta". What does that have to do with Arc?

[RayFrost]

Because i have played with Rach as scum and town. I know how scum rach thinks.. she rach would never read me town and scum rach lurk lurk lurks a lot.. just like Rach did that before reboot. Remember i read her as scum in last game and she turned out to be scum, Isn't it. Trust me i know how to read Rach for sure...

The quote for reference.

Also if you're not going to fully read what I have to write then you really shouldn't bother making conclusions about what I'm saying because you have no clue what the context is. What you basically said was "HE LOOKS MANIPULATIVE FROM WHAT I CAN TELL IDK MAYBE HES TOWN BUT MANIPULATION SO SCUMMY."

I'm being very very blunt with what I want and what I'm thinking. Call it manipulative to state my thoughts directly if you want. I call it transparency. It's a thing I do.

I also explicitly stated why I saw a potential connection between arcangel and RMarie and then furthered it as I felt that their postings about each other were increasingly in line with desperate chainsaw-y bullshit.

I'm really really really tired of this meta based reads orgy. I don't know you fucks well enough to meta you and I have just seen wisdom say that RMarie's meta is one thing while arcangel says it is another. I'm leaning towards neither of you bums have any clue what her meta actually is because you only have played with her in a couple of games and are assuming you understand her psyche from this small sample size.

In which case I'd like to suggest that maybe you drop the meta book and open the book of reading the damn game and making decisions for your damn self based on the postings in the damn game and then giving some goddamned reasons to back up your thricedamned claims and reads regarding these damned people.

[Wisdom]

What you basically said was "HE LOOKS MANIPULATIVE FROM WHAT I CAN TELL IDK MAYBE HES TOWN BUT MANIPULATION SO SCUMMY."

wtf? The "maybe hes town" is a thing of your own creation. I don't think you're town at all.

[RayFrost]

The many townreads on him trouble me though, because it's possible that scum sheeped the townreads when they saw that town townreaded him.

[Guyett]

Wisdom do you think that Ray is doing to me what you accused Chk and GM of to golden clouds in that other game?

[Wisdom]

I'm really really really tired of this meta based reads orgy. I don't know you fucks well enough to meta you and I have just seen wisdom say that RMarie's meta is one thing while arcangel says it is another. I'm leaning towards neither of you bums have any clue what her meta actually is because you only have played with her in a couple of games and are assuming you understand her psyche from this small sample size.

Yeah yeah, too fucking bad. As long as I'm alive we're not touching Rach because this can't be any more obviously her town meta. Good luck on discrediting my reads.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RayFrost

[Wisdom]

Wisdom do you think that Ray is doing to me what you accused Chk and GM of to golden clouds in that other game?

Probably.

[Guyett]

UNVOTE:

[ArcAngel9]

I didn't decide to use meta.

I was using what

arcangel was saying about RMarie's meta

for my comments because arc's entire reason for finding RMarie townish was the meta.

Meta is my reference and her play in this game is town. how does it so hard to understand?
You read me as scum last game where i was town.. you were wrong.. I read Rach as scum in last game and she was scum. I was right.
you read me scum again in this game, you're are wrong again.. I read Rach as town now, and i am very confident that i am right.

your denial looks very unnatural behaviour and very scummy.

[Wisdom]

In which case I'd like to suggest that maybe you drop the meta book and open the book of reading the damn game and making decisions for your damn self based on the postings in the damn game and then giving some goddamned reasons to back up your thricedamned claims and reads regarding these damned people.

Yeah, isn't that convenient? If you look only at this game Rach's actions can be interpreted as scummy so you can push her lynch and have a zillion reasons to back it up. Too fucking bad for you that there are actually players that know Rach is like that in every damn town game and won't allow you to lynchfodder her.

[Guyett]

Wisdom do you think that Ray is doing to me what you accused Chk and GM of to golden clouds in that other game?

Probably.

That was something that I have been thinking of over the last 24 hours or so.

[RayFrost]

What are you talking about?

Vaguely referencing something instead of just blatantly stating it leaves me in the dark, and I don't like to be left in the dark regarding people's thoughts about me.

P-edit:

Wisdom: Shrug. I think she's scum. I don't have meta, and I'm not just going to blindly follow your claims of meta.

Another edit (christ you guys seriously):

What denial...? I am explicitly stating my thoughts. I also thought chaosomega was scum last game. I was right.

ANOTHER EDIT:

You and Arcangel call RMarie's meta town for completely opposite reasons. I will never buy meta if the meta is anything she does is town cuz das what I say the meta is. Which is how this shit comes across to me. Period.

Can I seriously make this post you guys have ninja'd me like five times now.

[ArcAngel9]

Fine Ray.. Play by yourself.. I am done here. Period

VOTE: Ray

[RayFrost]

..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

So because I am unwilling to accept meta as a valid excuse for all behavior you are going to vote me.

My god, has the site meta really gone to the point where everything is validated or invalidated by meta and everything else is thrown out the window? Christ.

[ArcAngel9]

No your denial and reason to call me scummy becuz how i am basing reads is very scummy.
that's how i see it.. And there other reasons i have actually mentioned earlier that your play doesn't look town to me as they were prior re-boot.

I tried to give more time if you could make sense but it was a fail.

[RayFrost]

Wisdom, I would like an answer to three questions.

1: You state that lurking is RMarie's town meta, Arcangel states that lurking is her scum meta. Which is correct?

2: Can you lay out in detail why you think I am scum? What I can see so far is "he's being manipulative and he reads someone I think is town as scum."

3: What were your thoughts when you first came into this game?

P-edit:

Denial of WHAT, exactly? The town meta read that you and wisdom both give opposite reasons and meta for? And how does this make me scum, if I might ask? Since you seem so insistent on it meaning something, tell me the meaning.

Your reason earlier was "you don't feel the same as last game." Last game I replaced into the cop slot with it claimed page two and had to somehow assume control of the situation. This game, I had no need to assume control until you fucks were like "wahh ray isn't being the god of the town" as a reason to find me scummy. I can't just artificially graft my playstyle to match the one style I adopted in a very high pressure situation when this is not a high pressure replace-in with several pages of content to look at situation. I've been in since game start, my play in games where I'm in from game start is

completely different

and honestly a lot worse than my play when replacing in.

[Wisdom]

What's "everything else"? Her active lurking? Her pushes for activity without being active herself? The weird way she replies? ALL of these things are things she has done as town and most of the time had gotten her mislynched. Why the hell would you, as town, ignore such meta?

[RayFrost]

Because I have no proof of this being her meta aside from word of mouth. I have never and will never take meta as a get out of jail free card.

Not this game.

Not last game.

Not ever.

Either link me to several posts in several recently completed games proving that she not only does this as town but also doesn't do it as scum or drop the meta defense.

[Wisdom]

1: You state that lurking is RMarie's town meta, Arcangel states that lurking is her scum meta. Which is correct?

She does it as both. It's null. You were claiming she does it as scum and that it was a reason for your scumread.

2: Can you lay out in detail why you think I am scum? What I can see so far is "he's being manipulative and he reads someone I think is town as scum."

Because you're trying to manipulate people with forced conclusions. You're pushing the easiest lynchfodder and make arguments such as "they defend each other, they are definitely scum together" that make no sense coming from town - town would consider the possibility of both being town who know to read each other or even just one of them being scum WKing the other for cred - but none of this. You somehow concluded that they're both scum. As if scum defend each other on D1.

3: What were your thoughts when you first came into this game?

The same thoughts I have now.

[ArcAngel9]

Ray,
Read Rach posts # 32, 74, 87, 90, 93, 94, 106 , 121, 123 & 129… these are some solid posts from a Town Rach becuz the scum Rach I know wouldn’t ever bring example cases to defend someone and say they are town.

And I ll clear you confusion about how Wisdom and I are reasoning about Rach lurking issue… Wisdom usually a heavy poster so Rach is almost a lurky player for him all the time but if you compare Rach posts from her last game where she was scum and now.. you would know where I am coming from.. In the last game, she just reasoned that she was busy and stuff but never had any case nor contributed in the game. Scum Rach lurk to core with no real content it is easy to see her..and town Rach adds effort to defend anyone who she feel is town which she did in my case.