Micro 242: Les Miserables Mafia (Game Over)

[elleheathen]

First thing.

Mae's 'jump off the Paris sewer' reference makes me think there might actually be some validity here. If only because I figured if it

was

a reference, it was either one for Valjean or Marius. Well, that and fakeclaiming Valjean would be prettttty ballsy out the gate.

Then again, shos already claimed to be town with one of (he thought) the villains. So fiik.

But it's one of those things that if it is a legit claim, it's one that scum is either forced to keep alive due to suspicion that will rise if he doesn't die - but at the same time doesn't benefit them because ahaha bodyguard.

Hmm.

The difference between Mhork and the rest of the Unholy Axis of Voting is that Mhork has pushed this to the point of opportunism. Elle, I could buy as town because Mhork needs a read to crib off of, and so GG. I'm still not buying the whole 'it's a coincidence' bullshit that one third of town has a voting bloc; I'm thinking one, maybe two of them are scum, and I find the interactions between Elle and Mhork...soft in the gut, but you guys want to flip me? Fine. The role's created to be disposable. But if you don't fucking look at who's on my wagon and the close, almost bizarre association that Elle and Mhork have set up for themselves DAY FUCKING ONE---this loss of this game I wipe my hands on.

Oh look, a question I posed to Mae that I can still direct to their replacement!

So do you think close = scum and that we walked into this as scum partners drawing a direct line to the other? Or do you think one of us is scum and is using our familiarity (because the fact that we just got out of a game together has already been discussed in thread) with the other to buddy a town? What do you make of the closeness/interactions?

Also, why do you find Mhork and I's closeness more suspicious than Grim and I's twining?

I can't defend Mae--her play is admittedly pretty fucking dreadful--except to say the lack of engagement reads to me in a Town aspect as a player with a protection role that doesn't want to be outed. That said, that's almost newbie town and Mae's been around since 2009, so she might not be...good at this to begin with.

^This. This is what has me leaning more towards town on you than anything else atm. The fact that admit that you 'can't defend Mae' - which is what I found so off about mastin's approach with OMGSHE'SSOTOWN in the face of her craptastic play and misreps. I still don't get it - I still don't understand it and either he's just

that good

or he

knows

that she would have flipped town and was accumulating alllll the white knighting town points ever as scum. But then he posted that wall of reasons for why he saw her as OMGSOTOWN and though I

completely

disagree with it, it seemed somehow less like scum and more like stubborn town.

Oh. Whoops. /rant

Anyway, I'm good with that unvote.

Elle, bv or funky?

Orlyyyyy?

[Lord Mhork]

That was a question directed at you. >.>

Elle, (should we lynch) bv or funky?

[penguin_alien]

Who am I? My role PM now waits for me to read.
I'll check and start to post with all due speed.
And should I win or lose this game, will I just have myself to blame:
Oh, the shame!

With nine alive, it takes five to lynch!

Vote Count 1.14

Lord Mhork (L-3): Ghostlin, mastin2
Malakittens (L-5):
mastin2 (L-5):
bv310 (L-5):
Ghostlin (L-3): Grimgroove, funkybike1
shos (L-5):
Grimgroove (L-5):
elleheathen (L-5):
funkybike1 (L-3): Malakittens, shos

Not voting: bv310, elleheathen, Lord Mhork

V/LA:

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-21 00:44:01)

[elleheathen]

That was a question directed at you. >.>

Elle, (should we lynch) bv or funky?

Oh - LOL.
Not sure yet - I'm re-reading this whole shpeel, though should have something by tonight considering the time crunch.

[Ghostlin]

Oh Ghostlin is adorable. He's one of those players.

1) I suppose I'll buy that for now. A body guard is a nice, low powered role especially for a Role Madness setup.

UNVOTE: Ghostlin

2) What do you make of the fact that elle and I have been voting together for awhile? You say that it's suspicious, but why exactly is it suspicious? Especially with GG too? We all have mutual town reads on one another last I checked, why wouldn't we vote together?

3) This isn't power tunneling. I've been stuck on Mae for awhile because SHE QUIT POSTING. If you read my posts, you'd see all sorts of angles I've been pursuing. There was Grimgroove. There was shos. There's still funkybike. And there's been Mae. How have I been tunneling? How have I been optimistic? Am I not allowed to point out suspicious activity once someone stops posting? Is that a free pass to scummy behavior?

So why can't all three of us be town? Why is that so impossible? Is it because we're voting you? You're acting just like mastin: 'this is obviously suspicious because I feel it in my gut why are you guys not feeling it too?'

That's very close to an Amish Tell along with the 'I'm disposable' that makes me have lingering bad vibes, but there are better targets than a body guard we direct if he survives the night.

In addition about my 'ballsiness,' if you read my posts up until then, you will see that I had been asking mastin about how he was so sure she was town. That's why I asked for the town in her posts; he had told me that mine had none. Don't try to sling mud. At least find something decent to use. Or better yet, help lynch scum.

Elle, bv or funky? I still find funky scum but I really don't like that bv dropped off the radar. What do you think?

PEDIT:
Did you even read my post, mastin?

I cut out the questions that are pertienent.

1) I don't tend to necessarily vote with people I find Town. Granted, this is larger games, but a town bloc of three is alarming to me because it creates a plurality unfound in many other games. For example, if you had 4-5 players in a 13 player game all vote together Day 1, which is a kin to herding cats; well, I'd fucking raise an eyebrow. In a 21 player game, a 7 player townbloc ratcheting out the scums is pretty damn unlikely Day 1, and again, would raise a few eyebrows if that lynch went through quickly.

Yes. I am talking numbers, but 2/9 and three out of nine people who have placed the votes they have makes it more likely at least one is opportunistic.

Is it

possible

? Sure. But we're not discussing if something's fucking possible, really, Mhork; we're talking about the interesting fact that you all seem to gel so well Day 1, and my paranoid is telling me that's not a GOOD thing.

2) Part of this I cover in 1) above; I'm not saying fucking impossible--there's an entire gambler's fallacy about it, but it pings me.

The reason I call you death tunneling is you have pursued your Mae read almost to the extension of everyone else. BV stopped posting long before Mae did.

You're not pushing him.

Funkybike is still here and present--

you're not pushing him

, and you even advocated for shos to put Mae at L-1 instead of continuing to vote for

someone he truly believes is at least an equal scum read

.

Damn, if that's not death tunneling, I don't know what is. I'm not saying that you don't believe other people are scum or are capable of making those suspicions if you're scum--I'm saying out of the people on the Mae wagon, you're the one who seemed to have less engagement with anyone else you found to be scum.

[Ghostlin]

Also, why do you find Mhork and I's closeness more suspicious than Grim and I's twining?

Because out of the three of you I like Mhork better for scum, and he seems closer to you than Grim.

I think you were expecting a longer, more higher level, 'I shit gold bricks as town' answer, but that's all I have, cupcake. Strong interaction with a scum read is an entirely different set of bananas to someone I have generally good feels about because town dry hump--I mean buddy each other too.

[Lord Mhork]

Unfortunately have to go to Psych. Will phonepost at breaks if I can.

[Ghostlin]

I know how that feels. We have 3 days to deadline. I agree with Mhork on the lack of any Mae town case. This may be due to inactivity though I have to say I did get a slight scum vibe when I looked at her (nearly nonexistent) iso. My other guesses at the moment are shos and Malakittens, but those are more guesses than anything.

Hit me with your guesses, presuming you believe my claim. Hell, even if you fucking don't; what about Malakittens and Shos that seems off to you that would put them in the potential scum pool?

[elleheathen]

Also, why do you find Mhork and I's closeness more suspicious than Grim and I's twining?

Because out of the three of you I like Mhork better for scum, and he seems closer to you than Grim.

I think you were expecting a longer, more higher level, 'I shit gold bricks as town' answer, but that's all I have, cupcake. Strong interaction with a scum read is an entirely different set of bananas to someone I have generally good feels about because town dry hump--I mean buddy each other too.

Assez bon pour moi, 24601.

[Ghostlin]

Transitive sorting:

Town--Mastin, Mala

Axis of Votes, from Towniest to Scummiest--GG (prob-town), elle (null), Mhork (scum)

Scum--bv (that slot has committed similar sins to this one and you guys wanted to hang me first. the lack of any kind of mention except from GG pings me hard), Mhork, funkybike (326 was really bad. I don't feel anything positive from funk)

?- shos; some of his early stuff makes me go 'what' and some of his later stuff seems really good. Despite Mhork's opposition to it, I thought his transitive reasoning for sorting the clusterfuck that is funky and this slot seemed more town than scum.

[Lord Mhork]

Ok first point is that equating a three person bloc to a 7 person bloc is fallacious reasoning. Sure they're both 1/3 of their respective games, but you're forgetting that it's much easier for three people to be in agreement than seven. You can't really seriously push someone as scum for this. You can maybe maaaaaaaaybe use it as backup evidence, but even that's specious in itself.

In addition Elle does have some reason to be in agreement with me. We just won a LyLo and before we got to that point I correctly named the last scum. And I've seen Elle act obv town in some of her past games and the behavior is similar, so I'm confident in my read. If anyone were being opportunistic, it'd be grim, but I'm confident in my town read there as well.

[Lord Mhork]

Yeah and I'm not gonna try to answer your death tunneling thing via phone. I'm not that good. It'll have to wait until later/tomorrow.

[elleheathen]

Not sure yet - I'm re-reading this whole shpeel, though should have something by tonight considering the time crunch.

I'll get back to this in the am - just finished the read through but allergy headache is kicking my ass - so bed.

[Lord Mhork]

Your death tunneling thing is wrong Ghostlin.

For what it's worth, I'm null/town on Malakittens for that early funky attack, nullish/sorta town on elle for general feel, but I don't trust that, and null/townish on Kazekirasomethingorother but that's a really weak guttish thing based on his whole 'Morton's Fork' discussion and general attacks on funky. I'm actually feeling null/scum on Maemuki because fluffity fluff fluff and the fact that she didn't attack my following funky onto shos and scum on funky (obviously).

[Totally gonna go off topic and answer bv: 25th Anniversary Les Mis can go die in a hole. 1988 Symphonic Recording is where it's at. Phillip Quast = GREATEST JAVERT EVER. I did enjoy the 25th Anniversary Phantom, though, as much as I can enjoy Phantom of the Opera.]

I really want to lean town on bv but I just can't due to lack of evidence and all that. Please post more so I can think you're town, bv! And of course I'm solid null on Grimgroove and I think he should be prodded with a big heavy stick. Maybe a truncheon.

Malakitty, I'm interested in this back and forth you were talking about in 27 with funky as soon as your V/LA ends.

Elle

I'm sorry I didn't understand the wine reference until just now when it clicked

do you have scum games I can look at? I haven't seen you as scum yet. Also can you do that thing where you're really, really protown? I've seen you do it a lot and it's awesome. Who are your scum reads?

Kazikiramira: Whatcha thinking, pal? You look fairly townie thus far.

Funky,

why are you scum?

if you aren't scum, who is?

Maemuki, you're fluffing really hard. Granted you only have 6 posts, but most of them don't really contribute anything? Why didn't you pursue the following funky thing? What are your thoughts?

BV: Other than the shos WIFOM thing, is there any reason you suspect him? What do you think of funky?

This is a post I made where I explained my reads on people. It's not like I am ignoring anyone. Well except bv but that's mainly because I forgot he existed. I'll admit I got a little distracted, but that was more because I was waiting for Mae before I could move on.

In addition you can note that I have attacked shos. I've attacked funky. I've attacked Mae. I've even semi attacked mastin. The only reason it looks like I'm 'tunneling' is due to the fact that my attacks on her have lasted longer. Which isn't my fault. Again, it stemmed from her not posting. You'll note that I wasn't saying much of anything while I was waiting for Mae. It's not like I've been bullying through anything. I don't even see where you're getting opportunism from.

Now that you mention it, it is odd that bv stopped posting. I admit that's my bad, but I was distracted. Being distracted when pursuing a scum read is hardly a scum tell. It's minor tunneling, but not tunneling to the sheer extent that you have made it out to be.

As for funky, I haven't really pushed him because I think he's scum. He's, like, solidly scum. What is there to be gained pushing there? I've been more interested in sorting out the null/scums.

You're gonna have to refer me back to the shos vote thing because I can't remember what that is.

Your push on me is bad, but at least it's not mastin bad. I'm not saying you're cleared as town by any stretch, but I feel better about you than I felt about Mae.


Elle hurry I can't decide

For now:
VOTE: funkybikeone

[The Grim Reaper]

UNVOTE:

Agreed with 375. The benefits of having a twin.

Mhork stating he's had funky as a solid scumread took me a bit by surprise. I completely missed that sentiment before, and it felt at odds with how you behaved earlier. Need to double-check.
As I said before, I don't see funkybike-scum.

My current guess (though it seems I lost my chance for a Disney-song-tribute): Malakittens - bv310

I think when it comes to the latter, we'll also have to wait for a replacement.

I feel some pressure on Malakittens would be good right now. Let me just compile some precise questions and remarks before putting my vote there.

[Grimgroove]

UNVOTE:

Agreed with 375. The benefits of having a twin.

Mhork stating he's had funky as a solid scumread took me a bit by surprise. I completely missed that sentiment before, and it felt at odds with how you behaved earlier. Need to double-check.
As I said before, I don't see funkybike-scum.

My current guess (though it seems I lost my chance for a Disney-song-tribute): Malakittens - bv310

I think when it comes to the latter, we'll also have to wait for a replacement.

I feel some pressure on Malakittens would be good right now. Let me just compile some precise questions and remarks before putting my vote there.

Sorry, that was me posting from a hydra.

[Grimgroove]

First, I do want to get my thoughts out on funkybike. Just ISO'd again, and I'm conflicted. Last time I didn't see him as scum, and now that I did it again, I do. I think most of it has to do with my refreshed view on the Ghostlin-slot, where I felt funky's support for it was town.

Like I said, the beginning of his game sounded quite bad really. His post 18, his second post in the game, already contains an inconsistency about his stance on D1 wagons. Inconsistencies are always bad, but not always telling.
Post 20 offers an explanation. Him having fallen victim to a derphammer should lead him to dislike D1 wagons, which is at odds with what he said in 18, making that a second inconsistency. The fact that this is a rolemadness game is also irrelevant, as this refers to the possibility of a scum-quickhammer rather than a derphammer. Fear for a scum-quickhammer is usually unfounded, especially on page 1/2 of a game, so it can't exactly be called valid either.¨Post 23 and 24 is funkytown finally taking a stance on the matter, but it doesn't hide all the inconsistencies he exposed in this regard.
28 and 31 are funky backpedaling.

shos barges in and townreads funky for mentioning it's an L-1. An attention-shift ensues, funkybike takes advantage of it and slips away under the radar, up to the moment where he votes shos.

Post 33 is the complete opposite of what he was saying in the second part of 20, as he now completely discards the fear of quickhammering scum.

His reaction in 148 to my catch-up did ring good to me, I remember. It was the reason I backed-off in hte first place. But looking back at it now, I must bow my head in shame and feel stupid: it was a crock of smelly shit, but covered with delicious whipped-appeasement.

216 is him leaving a wagon that has lost all traction. A town-reaction would be to recompile a case on shos, summarize it, and try to persuade others.
He states lack of desire to L-1 Maemuki, but only five posts later asks himself why he shouldn't just hammer Maemuki. This is at odds with 353, where I think 353 is just shows funky is learning as he's doing after my reactionto 216.

My views on Maemuki have been clouding my judgement on funkybike and I apologize.

VOTE: funkybike

[Grimgroove]

I'd like a reads-list from Malakittens though. She's been coasting under the wings of mastin and I don't feel very comforatable with that situation, no matter how much mastin himself likes it.

[Grimgroove]

That was an L-1 by the way.

[shos]

Hey that was my case!

Newguy, please tell me your thoughts on funky, you seem to have skipped him

[mastin2]

Did you even read my post, mastin?

Yes, but given as how it was two massive posts saying "Mae's slot is scum", I elected to ignore them.

I still don't get it - I still don't understand it and either he's just

that good

I try to be humble, but bluntly?

Yes. I am that. damn. good. I can smell a mislynch from a mile away, see the scum pushing it from five-hundred feet. I may not have perfect accuracy, especially on my scumreads, but my townreads are much, MUCH more accurate. When I say a player's town, they're going to damn-well be town. (Ghostlin can, to some extent, corroborate this.)

[penguin_alien]

Player list, our time is running out.
But I say, it's only the first day.
Deadlines loom, a choice will then be made
Be at peace, be at peace, 'tis just a game...

With nine alive, it takes five to lynch!

Vote Count 1.15

Lord Mhork (L-3): Ghostlin, mastin2
Malakittens (L-5):
mastin2 (L-5):
bv310 (L-5):
Ghostlin (L-4): funkybike1
shos (L-5):
Grimgroove (L-5):
elleheathen (L-5):
funkybike1 (L-1): Malakittens, shos, Lord Mhork, Grimgroove

Not voting: bv310, elleheathen

V/LA:

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-21 00:44:01)

[bv310]

/prodded. Sorry I disappeared, it's the last 5 days before half-term break, so my principal is all over my ass to get everything done before my short-term contract runs out. Urge to murder 12-year-olds is rising. Tomorrow is Friday (Thank God), so I should get some good content tomorrow afternoon. In the meantime, I'd like to point out that I'm not sold on the strength of the replacement's claim alone. BG is a very typical scum fakeclaim, since it's nearly impossible to prove. That said, I hate lynching replacements. I would prefer giving new-Mae a day before we go for it.

Now that we've gotten some breathing room before the deadline, I want to try and reread each player in ISO instead of doing a quick catch-up.

[Malakittens]

Interesting.

UNVOTE: funky

Grim you say you want to pressure me, but put Funky to L-1 instead?

Hay ghostlin, why am I town? you aren't sheeping Mastin right?

[elleheathen]

So. I hate piling on excuses but turns out allergy headache wasn't allergy headache but the flu - and I'm about to go die in bed.
But before I do: (This is about to get ridiculously short-formed (esp. if you're familiar with how prone to walls I am and know that this would normally be one covered up by spoilers under each name with references and quotes and jazz) - but if you want expansions on anything in particular for when I get back up, lemme know.)

Mala

- Town, besides what's already been stated - I gave Mala a behind-the-scenes reach out and the fact that Mala addressed it before I asked about it gives me good feels.

Mhork

- Town, still town and I think the fact that we're both very tentative on that read of each other is what's really doing it for me. To expand, I think we're both sitting here very much in a 'you're town

for now

' mindset because the familiarity is like 'I can read you better over long-term but this short-term feels like town-you'. If that makes sense - if not, it's the drugs. lol

Grim

- Leaning Town, but his last post wall with the reads switcheroo gives me bad vibes. And I really hate admitting this because MYFIRSTOWNBLOCK! D: Ruined twin. Redeem, plz.

Ghostlin

- I have as Null, Leaning Town. I think he'd be more town if it wasn't for my leftover scumspicion of Mae - to which the rest of my explanation for this is already out there - and not something I want to see pursued due to the bodyguard claim.

Shos

- I still flip flop over. I think a lot of it has to do with not getting half the crap he says in his posts and the contradictions therein. He sucks balls at explaining himself - and I can't tell if it's a situation where, because of that, he just makes himself look scummy or if he is, actually, scum. But I'd rather give him the 'pass for today' deal and see what tomorrow brings. Ps - fix your keyboard plzplz. lol

Scum is in funky, BV, or mastin.

Mastin

- I've already explained my confliction over. The arrogance about 'being that good' rings true with everything else he's saying - but the defense of Mae when even their own replacement didn't get it just... it's sticking with me. The fact that even when asked, he ignored my questioning line on Mae to continue his white knighting instead of addressing why he thought I was wrong made me think scum. But Mala's vouching for him makes me uneasy.

He's the one I'd be running up right now if my brain wasn't like HAHAHANO. But it is - and the effort that'd take with three days to go - non-existent atm because bed. Though, I'd be eternally grateful if one of you (Mala or Mastin) would link me to these games where you correctly pinged him as one alignment or the other?

Because

At the end of the day you're the one who began it

bv103

- Yep, I'm sticking with your numbers. Idk, I said this a few posts ago but when I iso'ed him, he looked town despite me having a huge scum-feel on him. Doing the read through last night gave me that scum feel again. The reason he made it here is because I don't

have

a solid read on him. He hasn't really voted with any conviction on anything, hasn't really given much of an opinion on things, hasn't given any reads.
This is where normally one of my huge walls would come in to explain all this but the short of it is - pretty much everything post 68 and on gives me bad feels.

Especially how in a lot of those posts afterwards, he doesn't vote but is trying to get other people's reasoning for how they're voting as if coasting they're reads instead of giving or following his own.

Funky

- Besides what's already been stated with the backpedaling and all that - his 216 unvote is probably what gives me the worst vibes - and that weird hammer bit on Mae - and not unvoting despite the claim - and there's probably more.
It's the humble part of him that makes me question it though - because he fully admits the stuff he does and explains, like his response in 148.

Mala's unvote actually makes me really sad. Because I'd love at least a flavor name claim out of funky - and I'm tempted to put my vote there to get it because he's in the 'could def be scum category' and I feel like I need

something

more to justify his scummery, without unveiling another role.

The only reason I'm not voting this is because idk when the heck I'll be awake again - and I want to be here for this but may change when I

do

get back up, depending.

And I'm currently lol'ing - because this is way longer than I expected it to be and yet still isn't close to what I would have walled if I wasn't medded up and braindrained. So, yay for your reading eyes? lol