Newbie 1425 Part Deux -- Game Over

[Wisdom]

Because I have no proof of this being her meta aside from word of mouth. I have never and will never take meta as a get out of jail free card.

Not this game.

Not last game.

Not ever.

Either link me to several posts in several recently completed games proving that she not only does this as town but also doesn't do it as scum or drop the meta defense.

Go and find them yourself, I won't do your job for you.

[RayFrost]

I did not claim she does it as scum I was saying that I find it scummy.

If you read my damn posts you'd realize the meta comment was a

direct reply to arcangel's post regarding RMarie's meta

. Saying that if Arcangel's meta is accurate then my original reason for finding RMarie scum is

validated

not

invalidated

.

Jesus christ I even fucking quoted it for you and you still don't see it.

P-edit: So it's my job to validate your 100% meta based defense of a player? No.

Burden of proof is on you.

[Wisdom]

You are the one claiming you don't believe this is her town meta, so nope.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.09

Guyett - 3 - RachMarie, Evil Regals, innocentvillager
RachMarie - 3 - RayFrost, singersigner, ObsessedWithCats
RayFrost - 2 - Wisdom, ArcAngel9

Not Voting: Guyett

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

*NEW* Deadline: (expired on 2013-10-19 13:54:09)

V/LA: singersigner, through Thursday October 17

[ArcAngel9]

Ray, I gave you proof...

Scum Rach wouldn't defend for players...what else you need. Check Mini 1444, you can see the agreesive scum play of Rach..... Rach is a very versatile scum player, so it is easy to see when she is town.... She plays display both agreesive and calm as scum but as town..she is very defensive. simple logic!!!

If not Rach, who else do you think is scum..?

[ArcAngel9]

Wisdom... any other thoughts other than Ray?

whats yoru opinion on Cats, regals and singer?

[RayFrost]

Last game, RMarie was an actively contributing player who took a balancing-act approach to her scum/town reads until her tooth surgery happened. She was scum.

By all intents and purposes if I were the type to say "I've looked at one game, this tells me everything about a person's playstyle" this would completely invalidate my read on RMarie and make it a clear and obvious town read.

But I'm not.

P-edit:

Give me links, and I'll do my research. I'm not going to hunt down games, though.

Edit again:

Arcangel you just said words and no links, I'll check mini 1444.

Also, read the thread. Wisdom already made a big post explaining his thoughts.

Christ it's like none of you are reading posts.

[RayFrost]

Also it is 3 am I have to wake up at 7:30 and I have work today.

I am going to ruin my day if I stay up any longer.

I will get back to you people after my day. Too tired to keep staring at this screen any longer. Stayed up later than I wanted already.

[RayFrost]

Oh before I go, if RMarie is not scum, then IV would be the person I'd be instinctually guided to look at next. I haven't done this so I am unable to say more at the moment.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom... any other thoughts other than Ray?

whats yoru opinion on Cats, regals and singer?

See 176

[ArcAngel9]

huh.. let me put it in this way..
Wisdome, who do you think you can vote now if not Ray?


Ray, Check mini 1444 you will know what i am talking about.

[Wisdom]

huh.. let me put it in this way..
Wisdome, who do you think you can vote now if not Ray?

cats

In fact, I will. Ray is still wrong, but something in the exchange gave me townvibes. I'm not that sure about him.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Cats

[ArcAngel9]

Cats to go then.... I would love to see this persons reaction

VOTE: Cats

[Wisdom]

@Ray
These are the games I've played with town-Rach;
Diffusion of Power - she was mislynched by 7 town on D1 after claiming N1 doc.
Gonzo - I lynched her on D1 with a quick deadline wagon out of thin air.
Everyone's being watched - she derped and misunderstood posts, digging her grave even deeper than it already was. I tried to defend her but she got lynched (D2).
Newbie 1366 - For once she didn't get lynched, though she was being accused by town and scum alike.
Newbie 1402 - She active lurked, just like here. I was scum and pushed her the exact way you're doing, arguing that she was accusing others of not being active while not being active herself. She got lynched D2.
Monks and Masons - She actually reached endgame in this one, and if I recall(I died N1) hardly anyone cared about her. She was mainly lurking in that one too.
Newbie 1420 - She got lynched D1 despite being obvtown, in my eyes at least. I was scum though so I let it happen.

Conclusion? She is a player that active lurks, posts weirdly, may miss or misunderstand or tl;dr posts and points, may do tons of things that might seem scummy, but I have learned to recognise the town signal she sends when she is town. That doesn't change the fact that scum continue to use her as lynchfodder in all games.

[ObsessedWithCats]

Well I already answered Wisdom's accusations, there's not much to react to in just a vote.

[ArcAngel9]

that's all you have to defend yourself.. ??

[ObsessedWithCats]

You haven't said why you think I'm scum, you just voted me and requested a reaction. I can't defend myself against what seems to be a random vote - there's nothing to answer to. Ask me a question, tell me why you think I'm scum, and I'll do my best to defend myself.

[ArcAngel9]

I dont repeat things that is already being talked about...Anywayz, since you asked...
its the way you Conveniently read my and Rach as scum together becuz i defended her and vice versa... And not to forget your intial suspicion over Ray is changed so quickly and you have started agreeing to everything what he said. Isn't tht enough?

[RachMarie]

meh guys n gals I think Ray is town. He is playing very much like he did in the only game we played together. The stubborness of his reads he did. Now compare that to games where he was scum, you will find he is more fluid on his reads, looking for the opportunity. He is dead wrong about me, just like he was in N 1206, but then he has only played in 2 games with me, one he died on D 1. After I hammered him...

BTW Ray I was at L-1. I could have self hammered, as scum that would have been even good play to prevent peeps from figuring out my scum budz. Instead I said it would be better to lynch me than to have a NL on D 1.

Most of the players screaming at you that I am town, have played many games with me. They know my lack of activity is not based on alignment, but what is going on in RL. I posted the link for 1444 for a good reason. Not only is it scum me, it is scum Arc. We most definitely did not defend each other. I remember looking at a game of Arc's where dude claimed VT on D 1 with no real wagon on him and she went totally ballistic on him. And she is doing that here to a lesser amount, but then none of us have done something like that.

Wis I will need more time to sort out hes very good and I could see a reason for him to defend me on either alignment, and chaos really had not played much this round. I am leaning town but not as solid a reading on him has with Arc and Ray.

Arc he did that in N 1206 as well. He was so sure right up to when I hammered him that Metabot and I were a scum team. Which is why I still have some skepticism on Wis. Since that game I do not always assume that someone who thinks I am scum is scum and that someone defending me is auto town.

[singersigner]

Almost home! Catching up after work tomorrow!

unvote

for now

[ObsessedWithCats]

I dont repeat things that is already being talked about...Anywayz, since you asked...
its the way you Conveniently read my and Rach as scum together becuz i defended her and vice versa... And not to forget your intial suspicion over Ray is changed so quickly and you have started agreeing to everything what he said. Isn't tht enough?

There wasn't anything convenient about it either way, it's just that it didn't look very town to me. And I explained why I stopped being most suspicious of Ray; he'd gone back to being helpful, rather than lurking and being useless.

The thing with me agreeing with everything Ray says is pretty much just that I'll agree with what I can't pick a hole in the logic of, and Ray tends to have a lot of good arguments which don't have pickable holes from where I can see. That's not to say he's definitely not scum, but that he thinks in a way I can follow and explains it well. I haven't agreed with

everything

he said, but given he's said rather a lot it's not surprising a lot of what I've agreed with came from him.

To the people saying that 'scum don't back each other up, they ignore or bus each other' and variations of, if it's that far ingrained into the way things are done surely it's safe for them to turn things around and back each other up once in a while? Though it probably significantly weakens the value of it as a scum-tell, it shouldn't be a town-tell.

UNVOTE

I'll come back later (within 14 hours probably) when I've had some free time to take another look at the whole thread.

[Guyett]

VOTE: Cats

Sheeping Wisdom and I want to see what happens with this wagon

[RayFrost]

Unvote

No energy to do a full read through the game again. Worked all day on no sleep. We still got two days and six hours as of this post so I don't feel enormous time pressure, etc, blah, etc, blah, etc, blah.

In the meantime no amount of meta can change the fact I see no scum-motivation for RMarie to actively try to derail a wagon on the person who has the single strongest scum read on her in the game. Other than being cocky as fuck. In which case she'll regret it later anyway.

Haven't even bothered reading the meta shit. Mostly because I don't subscribe to the concept and never have save for "I have played many games with this person and have as a result become naturally acquainted with them." Which is only really something I use to validate an initial reasoning for looking at someone / dismissing someone and then going in more depth as to why with actual content based shit. I'll read the meta later when I'm not feeling my eye burning out of my sockets.

P-edit: How is it that the

exact

time I come to post I get ninja'd. What the hell.

[RachMarie]

My reads have nothing to do with whether or not they think I am scum, my reads are based on whether or not I think THEY are scum.

[innocentvillager]

Fuck I wrote something up last night but I never finished it and I closed that window

Anyway dodge for now

Sorry

Hi Wisdom you seem cool