Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

What is this? page 50? I was only a few pages away until this happened.

I'd replace out but that wouldn't help any.

Who are you?

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

Plus, your insistence on this is getting scummy.

My insistence on what, exactly?

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

idk. Why should I be thinking about using it now? I don't plan on just activating it one day for the sake of activating it, but would rather use it near the time that actual wagons start forming today or on later days. (in retrospect, I suppose I could've used it yesterday on Hermy, but I think that not using it was the better option.)

I would just rather you use it sooner rather than later.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

upside down's a more developed read of mine.

What? You haven't even mentioned us until the post before this one. "more developed"? you mean "easier to bullshit around"

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

Someone is really touchy here. You scum, Nero?

This is absolutely hilarious coming from Mhork.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

Nero definately comes out better from that argument with Mhork. I don't know what it means about Mhork, though; he just really likes to win arguments.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

I want to lynch Pyrotechnics. They produced too much setup spec and prior games analysis Day 1. Their incessant arguing with other players reads less genuine and more as a means to manufacture emotion. They seem to be attacking people for what they perceive as being incorrect rather than attacking people for what they perceive as being scummy. Also, they're hugely obnoxious.

I was about to say I agree with whoever wrote this, but then I realised it was Quilford.

Quilford asked me to stop spamming the thread calling him town.

[Magua]

Vote Count 2.4

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

VoidedMafia (5): morph the cat, BBmolla, Garuda, 1baldeagle1, Klick
Seanald (1): PeregrineV
Harakiri (1): ProHawk
morph the cat (1): Pyrotechnics
1baldeagle1 (1): VoidedMafia
Nero Cain (1): Lord Mhork
Lord Mhork (1): Nero Cain

Not Voting (9): Seanald, guille2015, Lost Butterfly, Banakai, uʍop ǝpısdn, zMuffinMan, Zdenek, DoctorPepper, Harakiri

Deadline for Day 2 is Friday, November 1st, at 2:00pm EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2013-11-01 13:00:00)

[ProHawk]

please point to me what shows ProHawk explaining how Hermy is obvtown? Not town, not "don't want to vote" *insert read here*, not newb-town, but OBVtown.

So what led him to think Hermy was obvtown, then?

This has been explained, hashed, and re-hashed enough to not warrant more thread explosion on the topic. You need to stop. Remove those blinders you are wearing. Yes, put them on the ground (preferably in the trash). Done? Go back. Re-read the last three days prior to the deadline. Start with Hermy's first post. I realize that Hermy's post included a vote on you (and you manage to tunnel players that target you), but resist the urge to re-position those blinders (since I know you didn't trash them). Ok, after re-reading without your blinders on, lets follow up with some questions. At the very least, in retrospect you should be able to see why she was town if you honestly look at it objectively.

You state that a lynch was critical. In fact, your own words "I do think that having some kind of flip to work with via lynches certainly helps solidify reads (either through how people got the lynch through, or just from the lynch alone)". Now, I have read through the exchange a couple times, and it only frustrates me because every single person on that wagon looks like potential scum to me with few exceptions. What bothers me even more is your lack of follow up with that lynch. You go on and on about how critical flips are. You haven't done one iota of analysis on that wagon, save to say that people should look at it.

So why haven't you gone back to the flip and drawn conclusions from what occurred?

I bet its because that lynch was based on a set of two/three posts.

People either voted naked

(Garuda (2nd Vote), Pyrotechnics (3rd Vote), MorphtheCat (8th Vote), Lord Mhork (9th Vote), Nero Cain (10th Vote), PeregrineV (11th Vote)),

Provided a reasoning for voting

(UpsideDown (4th Vote), zMuffinMan (5th Vote), Harakiri (6th Vote), VoidedMafia (7th Vote)) , or actually

pushed for the lynch

(Lost Butterfly (1st Vote), UpsideDown (4th Vote)). Of the people who provided reasons, their reasons were very similar. The people pushing for the lynch also had similar reasons.

What is missing?

Pages of early interactions, differing cases/arguments, arguments in general, and opposition. All of which are effective and essential tools to catch scum pushing a mis-lynch/a lynch of someone not on their team. The people on Hermy's wagon are all on the same level. There is little analysis able to be done because the content is lacking. Hermy was a bad lynch, and very few people saw it coming. Now imagine the lynch of another potential wagon (you, LB, Harakiri, etc). How much more information would we have been able to glean from one of those flips? There were actually arguments made, actually people taking sides, they themselves had a voting pattern and information laid out. I hope you now understand why a no-lynch yesterday would have been better than seeing Hermy flip.

[ProHawk]

I am concerned with the amount of noise going on between the big hitters of the thread and a bunch of what I consider to be flawed scum-hunting, which is based largely on personality-tells or meta. There likely has to be one or more scum among them. Judging also from a no-night kill potentially being a result of one scum-team hitting another, the odds of a heavy-hitter, or someone that would be better removed from the game early-on being scum is highly likely.

Of all the analysis I could come up with, UpsideDown is the one that looks the most off on the Hermy wagon.

VOTE: UpsideDown

Morph, can I get a quick synopsis on your scum-reads?

[BBmolla]

So I will do a catchup soon.

[morph the cat]

Morph, can I get a quick synopsis on your scum-reads?

All of them, specifically certain ones, or...?

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Seanald

672

lol. walk me through why you think this makes him scum.

Which part of the ability makes you think it benefits town?

Austerity Measures x 1 (Day): The following Night, every living player (including yourself) loses $100 (to a minimum of $0), after wages and transfers have resolved. This will be announced in-thread

[PeregrineV]

Can everyone double-check that this is accurate? The bolded ones are the ones I added.

Mine is accurate.

[PeregrineV]

^Are both of these legit townslips, not-on-killing-team slips, or neither? It does bug me that the mechanical head of 'kiri would think town somehow won night kill when it went for 151, and town max budget at that time was under that.

Not to mention, if town wins NK they claim so acceptable vig targets can be gotten from everyone.

[zMuffinMan]

Oh and if anyone is wondering why this is N scum. This is fake content. He can't possibly be concerned over whether or not I would carry on my neighborizer crusade.
<snip>
So, why is he trying to make a big deal with me about it? He's scum, that's why.

nah. i think you're overreacting a bit. i really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really hate N's posting style, but your reasoning here is weak.

i also think N could be right about Quilford.

Other good wagons are Mhork and Harakiri

if your reasons for thinking harakiri is scum are the same as they were at the end of yesterday, then meh. what are your other reads/thoughts?

I felt like the reasoning used "oh you didn't use the word obv-town yesterday" was twisting.

that had nothing to do with why anyone thinks/thought prohawk is scum.

Everyone else is either null and pending second looks (muffin, BB, Nero, maybe Harakiri) or are just complete non-entities to me (anyone else that isn't a scumread).

... so you have 5 scum reads, 2 town reads, and 12 null reads?

I really like Nero for town, pretty solid read for me.

why?

who do you think is scum?

Nero comes off as town on this page. Mhork's arguments are very bad, but I don't think he's scum. He seems too oblivious to how bad his arguments are.

i got the exact opposite impression. nero's argument against mhork is horrendous. if you can say 1264 is a good post and keep a straight face, then you're a phenomenal liar.

I want to lynch Pyrotechnics. They produced too much setup spec and prior games analysis Day 1. Their incessant arguing with other players reads less genuine and more as a means to manufacture emotion. They seem to be attacking people for what they perceive as being incorrect rather than attacking people for what they perceive as being scummy. Also, they're hugely obnoxious.

eh. i don't see it. pyro looks pretty town.

[zMuffinMan]

Now imagine the lynch of another potential wagon (you, LB, Harakiri, etc). How much more information would we have been able to glean from one of those flips?

probably about the same, really. i think you're overstating how "bad" a lynch hermy was. if, for example, harakiri had gotten lynched and flipped town, we would be in the same situation. i can't tell if you're being naively ignorant about this or simply ignoring it to make your point.

Of all the analysis I could come up with, UpsideDown is the one that looks the most off on the Hermy wagon.

er... why? and what happened to you being so vehement in your belief that Harakiri and, to a lesser extent, LB are scum?

Which part of the ability makes you think it benefits town?

why would scum publicly claim to have advertised an ability that doesn't benefit town?

[Lost Butterfly]

Just a couple of quick points:

1)

CLAIM YOUR NIGHT ZERO ADVERTISEMENTS, BANAKAI, DOCTOR PEPPER, AND NERO. TRUST ME. I HAVE A REASON. JUST TRUST ME.

If no advertisements are claimed within twenty-four hours, I'm just assuming none of you advertised anything. And if you then go, "Waiiiiiiiiiiiit, I actually did this!" then I'm punching you in the face.

2) upside down's reasons for suspecting Tammy are absolutely terrible, but not in a scummy way, because I feel like they wouldn't go near her with a ten-foot pole as scum when it's so easy to go, "Boy, you're just so town, Tammy! *pat pat* *kills her at night*" (Also, *more reasons.*) I dislike ProHawk's habit of assuming that people who disagree with him on theory are scum. (I strongly disagree that you should vote a player who was getting more heat over someone you actually believe is scum just for "information".) Not at all as confident as some people seem to be that ProHawk is town.

3) Nero, have Harakiri's posts today affected your read of them at all? It feels like their name is just tacked onto the end of your list for the sake of being "consistent." As badly articulated as 1264 is, Nero is actually right that Mhork was

obviously

implying something about his alignment by bringing it up and not just "stating a fact" (I'd have liked Mhork better if he'd just admitted that he found Nero's sudden appearance after being voted suspicious). But that's still a flimsy reason to vote Mhork, and the timing of his vote switch feels more like it's something he

should

believe than actually does.

I know there are outstanding questions to me, but I'm too tired to answer them. Something substantial coming tomorrow. (Also, if Faraday doesn't post actual non-trolling content along with a vote, I'm giving you all my express permission to lynch us! )

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP: I should add that the reasons I'm not confident on ProHawk being town aren't BECAUSE of his hate for people who disagree with him on theory (although his reasons for voting upside down are crappy).

Also, I think PeregrineV actually has a valid point on Seanald--at least, valid enough that I want Seanald's explanation. I could see scum going, "Shit, I have to claim I advertised something!" and just picking something on the list (either because his team did advertise it or just to look good).

[zMuffinMan]

I could see scum going, "Shit, I have to claim I advertised something!"

...

[PeregrineV]

why would scum publicly claim to have advertised an ability that doesn't benefit town?

Or conversely, why would town advertise an ability that doesn't benefit town?

[zMuffinMan]

i dunno. i've seen some pretty stupid fucking claims this game from more than seanald, though, so i don't see your point here. e.g. baldeagle wanted to advertise governor, and voided advertising EV.

seems a null point.

what are your other thoughts on the game?

[PeregrineV]

i dunno. i've seen some pretty stupid fucking claims this game from more than seanald, though, so i don't see your point here. e.g. baldeagle wanted to advertise governor, and voided advertising EV.

seems a null point.

what are your other thoughts on the game?

I think it would be too much to hope that all 6 hydras are town, but I hope they are. The only problem seems to be 12 personality clashes that have to be resolved before the game can continue. Until it is, I consider most of it fluff/distractors and am not trying to figure out who actually called who what at this point.

I think that trying to use the game mechanic to catch scum is smart and town.

I think that if your spend is questionable, you should be able to coherently back it up with reasons just like your reads.

I think we should start setting up a transfer system, or at least a town strategy (even if it changes midstream). Tammy brought this up day1 and referenced the last game. From this, I either believe she is scum asking for a hookup from the other team, or she is town trying to find a starting point that worked last game.
I believe the latter.

I think scum fear confirming/having to confirm/getting caught by math to the extent that they are much more quiet in this type of game. This points quickly to the lurkers. If in doubt, you can add up the total scum posts made last game and see what percent of the game it was.

Those are it for now.

[zMuffinMan]

ok. i was more asking about your thoughts on other players.

[Lost Butterfly]

I could see scum going, "Shit, I have to claim I advertised something!"

...

There's no need to "..." me. I'm not saying it's a smart move by any means, or that I'd do it as scum. But I wouldn't advertise Austerity Measures or claim it as

town

, either. And early massclaims are stressful for scum. Imagine the town is pushing for you to claim what you did last night, and you have to say

something

, or else people look at you funny. Maybe you're afraid of being caught in a lie, so you claim something your team actually did advertise. Or maybe you're afraid you look scummy if you didn't advertise anything (because choosing to advertise looks more "protown"). So you just pick a random ability on the auctioned list, because you know that's safe. My point is, Seanald's choice was out of place enough that I'd like to hear his reasons for it.

I concede that Pere voting Seanald solely for this is silly.