Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[BBmolla]

Sean/Mhork ain't gonna happen today. Harakiri is scum and we should kill it.

NC what happened to this dude

[BBmolla]

Blah, I thought I'd get more done. I'll try to make it more of a wall instead of single posts when I get home tonight.

[Pyrotechnics]

Oh and if anyone is wondering why this is N scum. This is fake content. He can't possibly be concerned over whether or not I would carry on my neighborizer crusade. if you look at the way he interacted with me yesterday, there was no indication whatsoever that he believed in my opinions on the neighborizer. So, why is he he trying to distract the conversation between morph and I regarding town working together? I mean Morph is doing the perfect fake rendition of looking like they're working together, and N is trying to pull up something from the day before and trying to make a big deal out of it even though the entirety of the game has sided against me on the matter. So, why is he trying to make a big deal with me about it? He's scum, that's why.

Tammy, you've been taking small digs at everyone including me all game. I'm glad I got you to finally take a stance, but it just really doesn't feel genuine. Where was I "trying to distract the conversation between morph and I regarding town working together"? That's not even something you actually care about, seeing as you're calling morph scum now.

Everyone's scum but you, Tammy.

I'm not even sure what you were trying to do with the Neighborizer thing. You had no end goal. It was just something for you to do to look busy yesterday and now that didn't work out for you you're trying to sweep it under the rug.

Holy hyperbole and incorrect information batman.

Like I want to respond to this but it's so far outside the scope of what is actually happening in the game, I'm just going to accept that you are just making up bs to further try to bait me and call it a day.

Also if you and your obvtown other head are so sure I'm scum, you're missing something a little important to back up that read there buddy.

[Pyrotechnics]

Hehehe... You're funny, Nero. Do you always flip out or just as scum?

I'm not flipping out just calling you on your shit.

Why aren't you yelling at people Nero?

[Pyrotechnics]

Garuda still bugs me for the circumstances surrounding their terrible vote on Klick.

-- Quil

What is your read on klick now?

[Voidedmafia]

I'm always "touchy" wich is why I make a good mislynch target for scum.

What I mean is that once mhork comments on how you posted after he voted, you immediately jump to the conclusion that he was implying that his vote brought you here when I don't feel like that was even the case. I guess I can understand that you might find that implication, but it feels like a big reach to me.

After deadline activation, lost butterfly threw out 3 posts in a row. Now I like your play butterfly but I've noticed scum like to be active right after they've made a play in an attempt to try to control the game, what's your thoughts on that?

Inconclusive. While this correlation is possible, why couldn't LB have been posting quickly in an attempt to get things done under duress?

My insistence on what, exactly?

idk, why don't you pay attention to what quote that was a reply to?

What? You haven't even mentioned us until the post before this one. "more developed"? you mean "easier to bullshit around"

You don't get to pull the "you only posted it just now, so the read is obviously shit!" card when A.) I don't always have the luxury of posting a development of my reads over the course of multiple posts, and B.) I mentioned at least three things over those catchup posts that I found to be scummy in you.

This has been explained, hashed, and re-hashed enough to not warrant more thread explosion on the topic. You need to stop. Remove those blinders you are wearing.

Again, nothing you said pointed to obvtowniness, so not really <_<.

(and you manage to tunnel players that target you),

The vote on me was irrelevant, FYI. The unnecessary potshot is noted.

You state that a lynch was critical. In fact, your own words "I do think that having some kind of flip to work with via lynches certainly helps solidify reads (either through how people got the lynch through, or just from the lynch alone)". Now, I have read through the exchange a couple times, and it only frustrates me because every single person on that wagon looks like potential scum to me with few exceptions. What bothers me even more is your lack of follow up with that lynch. You go on and on about how critical flips are. You haven't done one iota of analysis on that wagon, save to say that people should look at it.

I still maintain what I said. However, lynches don't always give you the results or information that you wanted. At least three people off the top of my head (four, counting myself) voted Hermy with every expectation that she would flip scum. The complete lack of that left most of us floored (Garuda even explicitly states that the Hermy flip was so opposite that she just went into auto-sheep mode in the vote on me). I don't work on scumteams without flips (which makes lynches a tool for me to PoE reads rather than nail scum), and I was expecting Hermy to flip scum so that I could start doing that kind of stuff via looking at who jumped on late, etc., but without that scumflip I can't really do that. I mean, I still can, but what I'd get out of it won't be as strong .

Pages of early interactions, differing cases/arguments, arguments in general, and opposition. All of which are effective and essential tools to catch scum pushing a mis-lynch/a lynch of someone not on their team. The people on Hermy's wagon are all on the same level. There is little analysis able to be done because the content is lacking. Hermy was a bad lynch, and very few people saw it coming. Now imagine the lynch of another potential wagon (you, LB, Harakiri, etc). How much more information would we have been able to glean from one of those flips? There were actually arguments made, actually people taking sides, they themselves had a voting pattern and information laid out. I hope you now understand why a no-lynch yesterday would have been better than seeing Hermy flip.

Hmph, well, it's easy to see in the aftermath that Hermy may not have been all that ideal. I certainly wish we got more out of it than we did. But it happened, I helped it happen, and that's that.

On a slightly related note, this post does ring town to me.

I am concerned with the amount of noise going on between the big hitters of the thread and a bunch of what I consider to be flawed scum-hunting, which is based largely on personality-tells or meta.

I can definitely agree with this sentiment, though.

... so you have 5 scum reads, 2 town reads, and 12 null reads?

Nearly half of the playerlist has barely posted (or at least it seems like it) or only posted 1-2 posts that are along the lines of "catching up now". I can't get reads off this unless there's something extra attached to it (like Seanald's and Klick's posts back on D1).

You I simply haven't been paying attention to, either because I'm trying to catch up or I was trying to get a handle on all the idiotic catfights that were going on between pages 40 and 50. Nero I simply need to look over more, and Harakiri I unfortunately forgot what my exact read on them was, but I believe I was wavering over them being town or null, so. I'm aware BB has posted more than others, but he's just been...not there so much that I have literally no idea what he's said that's of note beyond the fact that he's said something.

EBWOP: I should add that the reasons I'm not confident on ProHawk being town aren't BECAUSE of his hate for people who disagree with him on theory (although his reasons for voting upside down are crappy).

Wait, Mina, I thought you were one of the people who thought Hawk was town?

*Lots of information, nothing explicit about other players

You aren't making me feel better about you.

I feel like I got sucked into defending you earlier and I doubt that was the case if eagle was the only one who was scumreading you.

Mph...

And don't frowny-face me. You know that's true.

This exchange with Prohawk seems more frustrated than anything Voided ever posted in Achievement Unlocked.

Nacho, how the hell is Achievement Unlocked related to this? The reasons for my frustration there are different than here.

PV, were you the one who claimed to get neighborizer?

Yes.

Voided is scum because whenever one vote goes on him, he flips out over it. He's like "omg, explain it now, so I can stop being scummy!"

Klick is probably scum too. But I prefer Voided.

...Dude, that's shittier than almost any argument put forth this game for anyone being scum.

Also, your point really only stands if I only reacted that way for just votes on me, so.

You seriously are saying this after your vote on Hermy yesterday?

The reasons for voting Hermy were salient and they existed. What's your point?

Seanald's post on Klick looks to be one that's more onto something regarding the deadline usage. He's moved to be scummier.

[Lost Butterfly]

Both look pretty town right now but they don't have scumgames that I'm willing to dismiss easily.

I'm a former don corleone winner and all round good guy!

You're not scumhunting.

[Pyrotechnics]

Voided - I can't quote cuz on iPad right now and cutting down that long post would be painful, but yes that post you thought was total towntammy was a post from syry.

[Pyrotechnics]

gods i hope you flip scum. It will be so justifying.

I am not even a tiny bit sorry that we'll disappoint.

Though I guess the feeling is mutual in a way. It would be nice to think that at the end of this all, I'll look back and think "well of course, they were scum." But, I don't think so. I think you're town, and yet the disconnect is so vast and pervasive that we're not likely to overcome it.

That's on you. If you are town and are actually trying to get town to work together, read syry's points about you. You should then easily see where our concerns about you come from. If there is an actual disconnect, feel free to try to overcome it. Even if you think you can't work with me, you both hydra with syry, so that really shouldn't be difficult.

[Garuda]

PV, were you the one who claimed to get neighborizer?

He was.

Both look pretty town right now but they don't have scumgames that I'm willing to dismiss easily.

I'm a former don corleone winner and all round good guy!

i hate u fardy

so you dont agree with the idea at all? or just about lost butterfly. Cuz im certain scum posted in the first page occuring after the deadline activation.

I think that it's possible scum either posted near deadline activation, or activated it and went into lurking so they wouldn't be connected with it. Empire saw Hermy posted right after the deadline activation but that didn't come to much excellence so I really don't care too much about the theory in general.

Nacho, some of Voided's posts seem pretty town, but some of them suggest a PoV I just can't grasp coming from town.

I'll look through your ISO to find them in a minute. Right now, my priority is gonna be bringing Pyro into the fold.

I'm wondering why he has said so little about the neighborize ability after the whole shabang day 1 about it.

You expect PV to comment more on it? I think his thought process was likely something along the lines of "I want neighborizer! I'm gonna bid everything I have on it!" and I don't think there's much more to say about that.

Nacho, how the hell is Achievement Unlocked related to this? The reasons for my frustration there are different than here.

I'm saying you're showing signs of passion/engagement that you never even came close to expressing in Achievement Unlocked. It was from a mod perspective which is less awesome for meta purposes, but you never dug your heels in and attacked in the way that you're doing here.

[Pyrotechnics]

Upside down - weren't you arguing yesterday that the neighborizer had to be town yesterday because of the $100 bid? Do you still think so? Because if you think that PV is definitely town due to bid amount, then why bring up the issue of the neighborizer again? My whole purpose for wanting to know who the neighborizer was was so that we could evaluate their choices and through that hope to evaluate him. But you thought definitely town so why would it matter to you?

[Garuda]

Oh you mean all the posts you spent whining about cooperation in the town while at the same time getting into a shit fight with LB over nonsense? You don't get to play the "hey I've been really trying to get the town to work together card" when you did literally nothing of the sort while I actually tried to offer something in the short amount of time we had.

So where Empire and I ended up before N1 came up was that Lost Butterfly was incredibly town and the majority of your thrust against them was initially weird. Vote post in #51 had you attacking them for responding to you about freezer instead of responding to eagle (they were responding to eagle, his quote just didn't have a name on it) and them mixing up you with Empire. The next clash was strategy, don't really think that scum-Mina would downplay the effectiveness as neighborizer as scum unless they were their actual thoughts; theory is the easiest thing for scum to talk about because they don't have to lie about it. The next attack was on Mina's "banal" comment, which I didn't think was fair. Empire and I shared that line of thought because we didn't think that the post Mhork was commenting on was that significant. We didn't assume they were talking about the post a couple posts up because usually when people are like "I agree with ^this post" and then a different post ninjas them, they explain what post they are talking about.

#625 from Mina seemed genuine to me in the sense that you accused her of feeling off and she sort of acknowledged that, threw up her hands and went "yes I could maybe fake this as scum but there's currently not a lot more I can do as town". I don't think that Mina/Faraday are more likely to antagonize you as scum and as town, and I think that Faraday letting you and Mina fight and only coming in every once in a while to antagonize you is more of a towntell than anything else; I'd expect him to be taking more of a lead if they were scum, and even IF Faraday let Mina take the lead as far as interactions with you go, I don't think that he'd make her job that much harder by doing nothing but trolling you.

We had a talk before Empire's initial reaction to you that was essentially "what is Tammy doing, I have no idea why she's railing against LB right now because they're town as fuck". He reached out a few times in typical trollEmpire fashion to get you to talk about your LB read because we were reading them as strong town at that point. He was pissed because your response to him having a townread on LB was "I'm not reading you as town yet and I know Mina better". References to past games are references to past games and I don't think we'll get anywhere with the Wingate references (because honestly the only person who was perfection that game was Llamarble), but that's pretty much the gist of it.

[Garuda]

Nacho and I hydra'd in that one and it seemed like we spent most of the game trying to get our town reads to stop FoSing and voting each othere.

Right now, I feel like I feel in Walking Dead and I would not like to repeat that feeling at all. I want this game to feel like Xenoblade with the Walking Dead results and this is the perfect storm for making that happen.

[Garuda]

Peregrine, you used the neighborizer last night, right?

[zMuffinMan]

hmm

Vote: Nero Cain

[zMuffinMan]

Morph is a strong townread for me, somehow.

why?

Both look pretty town right now but they don't have scumgames that I'm willing to dismiss easily.

i actually think my scum game can be rather transparent if you know what to look for.

Ok so he missed 19 pages, and JUST so happens to post right when the deadline is activated, and it is all about how he has a short amount of time to read it. Im scum reading this, not sure if Klick is the one who used the deadline or on the team that used it.

this is rather stupid.

[Seanald]

Or are you just afraid I'm right, and want to defend your buddy? Your posts have been pretty scummy muffin.

[zMuffinMan]

no.

you're an idiot.

[Pyrotechnics]

Oh you mean all the posts you spent whining about cooperation in the town while at the same time getting into a shit fight with LB over nonsense? You don't get to play the "hey I've been really trying to get the town to work together card" when you did literally nothing of the sort while I actually tried to offer something in the short amount of time we had.

So where Empire and I ended up before N1 came up was that Lost Butterfly was incredibly town and the majority of your thrust against them was initially weird. Vote post in #51 had you attacking them for responding to you about freezer instead of responding to eagle (they were responding to eagle, his quote just didn't have a name on it) and them mixing up you with Empire. The next clash was strategy, don't really think that scum-Mina would downplay the effectiveness as neighborizer as scum unless they were their actual thoughts; theory is the easiest thing for scum to talk about because they don't have to lie about it. The next attack was on Mina's "banal" comment, which I didn't think was fair. Empire and I shared that line of thought because we didn't think that the post Mhork was commenting on was that significant. We didn't assume they were talking about the post a couple posts up because usually when people are like "I agree with ^this post" and then a different post ninjas them, they explain what post they are talking about.

#625 from Mina seemed genuine to me in the sense that you accused her of feeling off and she sort of acknowledged that, threw up her hands and went "yes I could maybe fake this as scum but there's currently not a lot more I can do as town". I don't think that Mina/Faraday are more likely to antagonize you as scum and as town, and I think that Faraday letting you and Mina fight and only coming in every once in a while to antagonize you is more of a towntell than anything else; I'd expect him to be taking more of a lead if they were scum, and even IF Faraday let Mina take the lead as far as interactions with you go, I don't think that he'd make her job that much harder by doing nothing but trolling you.

We had a talk before Empire's initial reaction to you that was essentially "what is Tammy doing, I have no idea why she's railing against LB right now because they're town as fuck". He reached out a few times in typical trollEmpire fashion to get you to talk about your LB read because we were reading them as strong town at that point. He was pissed because your response to him having a townread on LB was "I'm not reading you as town yet and I know Mina better". References to past games are references to past games and I don't think we'll get anywhere with the Wingate references (because honestly the only person who was perfection that game was Llamarble), but that's pretty much the gist of it.

As said before, not why I was scum reading Mina. She felt off and I was trying to figure out why. How was I supposed to know that she really was addressing baldeagle in that quote when the name wasn't there and the rest of the post was addressed to you in name but actually to me. I was mostly just confused by the whole post.

As far as the empire being pissed, well I was really annoyed at the trolling attitude that he took with me. I can usually laugh off trolling, but when I'm already in bad mood or annoyed all it does is piss me off.

[morph the cat]

Nacho and I hydra'd in that one and it seemed like we spent most of the game trying to get our town reads to stop FoSing and voting each othere.

Right now, I feel like I feel in Walking Dead and I would not like to repeat that feeling at all. I want this game to feel like Xenoblade with the Walking Dead results and this is the perfect storm for making that happen.

I'm on board, despite my personal feelings about xenoblade.

Not feeling like Walking Dead, though, that I'm totally on board for.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

i really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really hate N's posting style, but your reasoning here is weak.

I don't think you're committed enough to this hatred.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

upside down's reasons for suspecting Tammy are absolutely terrible, but not in a scummy way, because I feel like they wouldn't go near her with a ten-foot pole as scum when it's so easy to go, "Boy, you're just so town, Tammy! *pat pat* *kills her at night*"

More or less terrible than hers for suspecting you d1?

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

Please don't fuck up quite possibly the only time we will be town together ever.

Please don't treat me like I'm stupid. This is the only thing you've said to me all game; that doesn't sit well.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

Oh and if anyone is wondering why this is N scum. This is fake content. He can't possibly be concerned over whether or not I would carry on my neighborizer crusade. if you look at the way he interacted with me yesterday, there was no indication whatsoever that he believed in my opinions on the neighborizer. So, why is he he trying to distract the conversation between morph and I regarding town working together? I mean Morph is doing the perfect fake rendition of looking like they're working together, and N is trying to pull up something from the day before and trying to make a big deal out of it even though the entirety of the game has sided against me on the matter. So, why is he trying to make a big deal with me about it? He's scum, that's why.

Tammy, you've been taking small digs at everyone including me all game. I'm glad I got you to finally take a stance, but it just really doesn't feel genuine. Where was I "trying to distract the conversation between morph and I regarding town working together"? That's not even something you actually care about, seeing as you're calling morph scum now.

Everyone's scum but you, Tammy.

I'm not even sure what you were trying to do with the Neighborizer thing. You had no end goal. It was just something for you to do to look busy yesterday and now that didn't work out for you you're trying to sweep it under the rug.

Holy hyperbole and incorrect information batman.

Like I want to respond to this but it's so far outside the scope of what is actually happening in the game, I'm just going to accept that you are just making up bs to further try to bait me and call it a day.

Also if you and your obvtown other head are so sure I'm scum, you're missing something a little important to back up that read there buddy.

Just respond to the last bit: what was your end goal with getting neighborizer to claim?

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

idk, why don't you pay attention to what quote that was a reply to?

I did, and I'm not sure what you think I'm insisting upon there.