Newbie 1436 ~ Game Over


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Post Post #2200 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:28 am

Post by notscience »

In post 2190, Sakura Hana wrote:If anything you snapping ns out of it, could've been because you're both a scumteam, and notice how ns keeps mentioning that it was you who snapped him out.
Because it's true.

Wis is scum without a doubt though. Why?

Look at his interaction with ffery today. Wouldn't that make more sense to be directed at me, his townread?
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Post Post #2201 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:31 am

Post by Wisdom »

Which interaction exactly?
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Post Post #2202 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:32 am

Post by notscience »

In post 2181, Wisdom wrote:Then fucking lynch me now. You're confbiased and we deserve to lose.
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Post Post #2203 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:33 am

Post by Wisdom »

That was @sakura. Learn to read.
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Post Post #2204 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:20 am

Post by fferyllt »

cliche's posts gave a newbtown feel but there's nothing really notable about them so I'll move straight to bert.

Spoiler: Bert Day 1
naked Cabd vote, explained in as sheeping notsci. So, he's townreading notsci by implication.

backing up notsci about Cabd's chameleon scum game, and supports where his vote is.

this is sort of a strange question - asking why the timing of initial reads lists, but the paranoia it implies struck me as town on day 1.

another Cabd hit "is there such a thing as town-cabd. He's questioning my concerns that Sakura was reading Cabd as town almost instantly but there's potentially a sort of implicit encouragement to suspect Cabd.

Here, I felt like genuine concern about how to read Cabd was showing.

, This is a sort of reads list revision. He's basically got a question mark by every player.

this post bugged me when I initially read it, and it still kinda bugs me. He's got Cabd at best as null, and he's asking Cabd to sort me for him. He explains in that he doesn't like Cabd's null read of me at that point.

he's now leaning town on Cabd based on gut feel of recent posts. This was when Cabd became active again after jury duty.

GM, Sakura now scumpile because Cabd moved up.

Unvotes Cabd.

Appears to be a fos over Cabd having trouble reading notsci.

asks me about Cabd's trajectory.

revotes Cabd. In next post, FoSes GM.

Reaches out to Sakura about her suspicions, and asks her to explain her Cabd read again. This post feels like town trying to work with town. Just a couple posts earlier he told Sakura that her fatalistic posts looked scummy. In the context of this reach out, that earlier posts feels more like at "stahp that" than a FoS. confirms it, townreading Sakura. All of this interaction feels town.

After this, he drops Cabd and moves on to GM. he asks about GM's TSO read, and then in the next post votes her.

The helter skelter nature of Bert's read changes is bewildering at times, but he always has at least some hint as to why either immediately before or immediately after the votes/unvotes.


Another reads list. Has GM and Kaze in his scumpile and Sakura now moved to town. Reason for scumreading Kaze is his posts have caution and lack of passion. Cabd and TSO are confused reads.

TSO more likely scum than Cabd because he's being too nice.

Asserts the GM read is his own and not affected by Sakura.

Claims earlier play was sheeping due to lack of time, now caught up and has own opinions.

advances ffery/cabd scum theory. I loled.

thru 440 good interaction with his scum read, Kaze, but not a lot of teeth in it. This exchange made me remember that a lot of the goofing around I associate with Bert's game never really happened in this game.

push back at notsci about revoting Cabd.

And...there's some of that goofing, the dance is with TSO.

, and in a few earlier posts as well, Bert pushes notsci to provide reads other than his constant push to get votes on Cabd. Note to self, pay attention to this in the notsci readthru.

Seems to be focusing on a logic fail by notsci, but doesn't really do anything with it.

draws a comparison between notsci meta and cabd meta. sort of.

Now TSO is more likey town than Cabd, and he's looking at Cabd, GM as a scum team.

The intimidation factor post. This post was a long fuse. It prompted me to go back and look at Cabd's interactions with other players on day 2. I mentioned that there were a LOT of dismissive posts.

A TSO fos

GM/Cabd scum team

Reads update, TSO wagon bothers him.

The sheer number of stance changes is amazing. In Newbie 1415 he settled on me as scum and wasn't budged by anything, including the F-16 meta case for town-me. But, that was a case of town bert and a ton of paranoia because I reached out/buddied thinking we'd be able to work together if he was town.


asks me about Kaze and indicates he's leaning a little more town now.

pushing TSO about early scumreads.

another reads list and considering lynching Cabd.

explanation of notsci townread. "He may be mimicking his town "crazy" vibe, who knows - I don't know how good he is at doing that...because in the scumgame he was in where I was town, he wasn't this tunnely and boisterous and nonsensical. Someone earlier in this game said that he has mentioned that he would like to meta-dodge..." but concludes this looks like his town game.

Reaction to Cabd's scumreading him. Next post he asks if it's a reaction test. He votes Cabd.

This post came off really genuinely frustrated about the scumread, and the next post was a vote. invokes the Dixon Hill game and Tammy's reaction to Majiffy's vote. more of the same. expects to be a flash wagon while he's afk, leaves his reads list. This also comes off genuine. Switches to TSO.

claims VT. He votes GM. He had Kaze/TSO as scum in his last readslist ON THE SAME PAGE and he votes GM. Rereading this it stands out, though it's in the middle of him townflailing all over the place. :/

self meta about flipping out as town before.

paranoia about Cabd's demand that he be the lynch if TSO claimed PR. he votes Cabd.

apparently game-transcending level of offence taken about one of Cabd's posts.

votes TSO, L-1.


That's day 1. This is huge so I'm going to spoiler it. This is far from every post, but it's still a ton of posts with votes, FoSes, reads lists, reversals changes of direction. It's almost like brownian movement, but it's not completely random. I can see this play coming from scum motivation, but over and over again, Bert posts something that feels like it has to come from a town perspective.

I'm going to wait until after I read notsci's trajectory before I call this town or scum. :/

I don't know if I have the time/energy to go through Day 2 today also. This took hours.
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Post Post #2205 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:01 am

Post by Bert »

Wow no one has done that for me before. Sorry for the hassle. <3
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Post Post #2206 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:04 am

Post by notscience »

Bert I tried to sharediso her and Wis

It's so fucking long
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Post Post #2207 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:33 am

Post by Bert »

I can't even try to do what she did, my eyes would bulge

it's ok though, what I really want to hear is more of her conclusions of her ISO of me. that's the most meaningful part and contribution she can make I think <3

the fun's just beginning, now we gotta get to the cherry on top of the cake, which is the conclusion <3 ultimate deluxe!
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Post Post #2208 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:02 pm

Post by Sakura Hana »

Spoiler: Day 2 VCA
Page 32
Cabd
:
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting:
Cabd
, ffery, Bert, Wisdom,
agi102
,
Sakura
, notscience


Page 33 (Unchanged)
Cabd
:
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting:
Cabd
, ffery, Bert, Wisdom,
agi102
,
Sakura
, notscience


Page 34
Cabd
:
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert (1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting:
Cabd
, ffery, Wisdom,
agi102
,
Sakura
, notscience


Page 35 (Unchanged)
Cabd
:
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert (1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting:
Cabd
, ffery, Wisdom,
agi102
,
Sakura
, notscience


Page 36 (Unchanged)
Cabd
:
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert (1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting:
Cabd
, ffery, Wisdom,
agi102
,
Sakura
, notscience


Page 37
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert (1)
agi102
:
Sakura
(1)
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting:
Cabd
, ffery, Wisdom,
agi102


Page 38
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
agi102
:
Sakura
(1)
Sakura
:
notscience: Bert (1)

Not Voting:
Cabd
, ffery, Wisdom,
agi102

Sudden vote to ns? Seems like opportunistically jumping on scumbud because he's not in any immediate danger right after ffery's thoughts. Regardless of ns' alignment tho, it felt bad.
Page 39 (Unchanged)Cabd: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
agi102
:
Sakura
(1)
Sakura
:
notscience: Bert (1)

Not Voting:
Cabd
, ffery, Wisdom,
agi102

Quite odd to see nothing change despite the sudden revelation.
Page 40 (Unchanged)Cabd: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
agi102
:
Sakura
(1)
Sakura
:
notscience: Bert (1)

Not Voting:
Cabd
, ffery, Wisdom,
agi102
In post 984, Bert wrote:Like, I honestly thought she/he was a neighborizer after Day 1. I'm that bad. And yeah, no motivation here for Cabd to lie.

That does save me from my Cabd paranoia and Sakura paranoia.
Dunno if a bit quick to judge or honest thoughts.
Page 41
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
agi102
:
Sakura
(1)
Sakura
:
notscience: Bert,
Cabd
(2)

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102


Page 42
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience: Bert,
Cabd
(2)

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102
,
Sakura


Page 43
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience: Bert (1)

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102
,
Sakura
,
Cabd


Page 44
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert (1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102
,
Sakura
,
Cabd

Bert jumps on Kaze (Wisdom) when he asks to replace out. It's interesting, because he also doesn't show signs of worrying about a possible Doctor yet Wisdom's calling that out on ffery, selective scumhunting much?
Page 45 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert (1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102
,
Sakura
,
Cabd

Bert still hangs to his vote on Wisdom, yet no one else is voting...
Page 46 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert (1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102
,
Sakura
,
Cabd


Page 47 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert (1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102
,
Sakura
,
Cabd

At this point ns gives case on Cabd no one cares about it yet.
Page 48
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert (1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:
Sakura
(1)

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102
,
Cabd


Page 49
Cabd
: notscience, (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert,
Cabd
(2)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:
Sakura
(1)

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102

Cabd enters the wagon.
Page 50
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert,
Cabd
(2)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:
Sakura
(1)

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102

To Note: ffery likes Cabd's case on scum Wis
Page 51 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert,
Cabd
(2)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:
Sakura
(1)

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102

Important: Mario comes in, does nothing and replaces out, almost every time i replace a newbie in a newbie game I get a scum role PM, additionally Mario never mentioned being a Doc, if Mario was a real Doc he would've fought hard against his lynch instead of replacing out.

Page 52 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert,
Cabd
(2)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:
Sakura
(1)

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102


Page 53
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert (1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:
Sakura
,
Cabd
(2)

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102


Page 54
Cabd
: notscience (1)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom: Bert,
Cabd
,
Sakura
(3)
ffery

agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery, Wisdom,
agi102

To Note: ffery has an intent to hammer on Wisdom's slot so i put it as italics
Page 55
Cabd
: notscience, Wisdom, Bert (3)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
Cabd
,
Sakura
(2)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery,
agi102

Wisdom replaces in, he's at L-1 with intent to hammer, no claim, even after supposedly reading. Bert happily sheeps.
Page 56 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience, Wisdom, Bert (3)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
Cabd
,
Sakura
(2)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery,
agi102


Page 57 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience, Wisdom, Bert (3)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
Cabd
,
Sakura
(2)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery,
agi102

Wisdom: Starts to soft claim, a real doc would have claimed at L-1 with intent not way later.
Page 58 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience, Wisdom, Bert (3)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
Cabd
,
Sakura
(2)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery,
agi102


Page 59 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience, Wisdom, Bert (3)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
Cabd
,
Sakura
(2)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery,
agi102

Oh look Wisdom finally said he's doc, he's been building up to it to make it more believable, once again if he was a real doc he would've claimed as he re-read.
Page 60 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience, Wisdom, Bert (3)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
Cabd
,
Sakura
(2)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery,
agi102


Page 61 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience, Wisdom, Bert (3)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
Cabd
,
Sakura
(2)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery,
agi102


Page 62
Cabd
: notscience, Wisdom, Bert (3)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
Cabd
(1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:

Not Voting: ffery,
agi102
,
Sakura


Page 63 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience, Wisdom, Bert (3)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
Cabd
(1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:
Sakura
(1)

Not Voting: ffery,
agi102


Page 64 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience, Wisdom, Bert (3)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
Cabd
(1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:
Sakura
(1)

Not Voting: ffery,
agi102


Page 65 (Unchanged)
Cabd
: notscience, Wisdom, Bert (3)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
Cabd
(1)
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:
Sakura
(1)

Not Voting: ffery,
agi102


Page 66 (LYNCH!)
Cabd
: notscience, Wisdom, Bert,
Cabd
(4)
ffery:
Bert:
Wisdom:
agi102
:
Sakura
:
notscience:
Sakura
(1)

Not Voting: ffery,
agi102

Unfortunately Self-hammers dont help much when analyzing through VCA...


I think I've nailed it, it's Wisdom-Bert, but i'll wait on ffery's trajectory analysis first.
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Post Post #2209 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:11 pm

Post by Bert »

oh bloody hell you think I'm with Wisdom :(
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Post Post #2210 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:11 pm

Post by Bert »

You don't think I've been sincere?

Meh. What else can I do seriously
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Post Post #2211 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:13 pm

Post by Sakura Hana »

You may have been sincere, that doesn't say you haven't been playing towards a scum win con.
The issue with you engaging with Cabd on D1 may not be an excuse for not being scum, but that doesn't make you town, if RL was involved it's alignment neutral.
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Post Post #2212 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:14 pm

Post by Sakura Hana »

However, you being in a team with wisdom is not as strong as wisdom being scum, you may look into the VCA and check my notes.
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Post Post #2213 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:15 pm

Post by Bert »

OK well I've tried everything I can and done things I have never been able to do as scum

Thank god you probably die tonight so I have a chance

and Wisdom and I as a team, I don't know why you think me sheeping Wisdom makes us a team, while Notscience and Wisdom being on Caabd or me sheeping ns doesn't make me and ns a team rather than me and wisdom a team

:/
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Post Post #2214 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:16 pm

Post by Sakura Hana »

I'm half used ffery's analysis of your trajectory tho.
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Post Post #2215 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:17 pm

Post by Sakura Hana »

*half using
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Post Post #2216 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:17 pm

Post by Bert »

Look I sheep often on impulse, and

also that comment about neighborizer was referring to another game that Cabd watched

if you go with VCA, I'm gonna be scummy no matter how you put it, especially as town

come on...
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Post Post #2217 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:20 pm

Post by Bert »

In post 2211, Sakura Hana wrote:You may have been sincere, that doesn't say you haven't been playing towards a scum win con.
Yes, but I still don't use that level of stuff as town, that's still dirty play. But aside from that, I've pretty much paragraphed everything in bunches, everything I can do pretty much, announced what I think of everyone, like I don't know what else I can do to get townread that's all

Is it the paranoia from Mismatched? What is it? This type of transparency I can't replicate/emulate, that's why I've been putting as much as I can into these posts.
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Post Post #2218 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:22 pm

Post by Sakura Hana »

In post 2204, fferyllt wrote:I can see this play coming from scum motivation, but over and over again, Bert posts something that feels like it has to come from a town perspective.

I'm going to wait until after I read notsci's trajectory before I call this town or scum. :/
See here, just wait, the only thing i'm certain right now is that Wisdom is scum, and atm i'm leaning more on scum you from VCA.
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Post Post #2219 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:34 pm

Post by notscience »

Sakura why are you so sure I'm town when my votes been on Cabd for most of the first few days
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Post Post #2220 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:35 pm

Post by Sakura Hana »

In post 2219, notscience wrote:Sakura why are you so sure I'm town when my votes been on Cabd for most of the first few days
I am not? The only thing im pretty sure of is that Wisdom is scum.
I bloom in spring?
Please be nice to me.
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Post Post #2221 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:36 pm

Post by notscience »

In post 2208, Sakura Hana wrote:I think I've nailed it, it's Wisdom-Bert, but i'll wait on ffery's trajectory analysis first.
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Post Post #2222 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:37 pm

Post by Sakura Hana »

In post 2208, Sakura Hana wrote:but i'll wait on ffery's trajectory analysis first.
I bloom in spring?
Please be nice to me.
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Post Post #2223 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:29 pm

Post by notscience »

If you have questions for me I'll answer them.
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Post Post #2224 (ISO) » Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:30 pm

Post by Sakura Hana »

Why didnt you trust my gambit?
I bloom in spring?
Please be nice to me.
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