Micro 242: Les Miserables Mafia (Game Over)

[shos]

@489-490: gg is correct, mastin. And he wouldnt get any towncred from funky. The onlyone with that benefit is me, having fought funky like a maniac d1 1v1 for hours, lol.

I regress, btw: bg should guard mala at all times. If i die, it confirms mala, and mala cant die, and if bg dies its wonderful. NK will probably be bv then...but tjats fine with us.

Everyones opinions on massclaim please

Oh MAAAAAN ninjad bt loads of posts

[Malakittens]

It's his appearance and his actions this game that don't act up to scum Mastin.

Mastin is being overly confident in his reads. Scum-Mastin doesn't like to bus unless he has too. He went after Funky straight out of the gate.

Preedit: I rather not be BG'd.

[Malakittens]

Rather -- it's useless to BG me.

[shos]

495-6: mhork it really wasnt you who found funky, dont take my cred :p
And ghost, mhork has now said he wouldnt autovote so its not.

[Lord Mhork]

The thing is that he didn't go after funky right from the get go. He went after me and kept this odd semi scum read on funky which was only really supported by 'his posts are especially bad' and 'he looks scummy.' Also he never followed up. He just sorta kept it there as a backup, which scum mastin could totally do after reading funky as an especially weak scum player. Actually I'm interested now. How did mastin bus funky?

Why?

The interactions between funky and Mhork don't look like scum-scum. I said this before. I am still saying it now.

I have scumreads on both of them. My scumreads on both of them come from a combination of bad posting from both of them, and POE townreads on most of the other players. So they're both scumreads, separate from one another.

While them both being town is possible, for both of them to be town requires me to be wrong on AT LEAST one townread, not to mention, a minimum of two of my three scumreads*. And I'd like to think I'm a more competent player than that. So, YES. I don't think it's town-town. Nor have I ever thought it was town-town.

In fact, while the interactions don't look like scum-scum, I still think that, somehow, it's possible for it to be scum-scum. (Put it another way--don't look like scum-scum, but feel like they could be scum-scum.)

*Not to mention, their interactions don't look like townVtown, either. Read their interactions yourself and tell me you think they're both town. Seriously. It's not a town-town interaction.

This post is also bad from mastin. He's saying we probably aren't scum-scum, but also leaves the window open for it to be scum-scum after all. This wavering isn't town at all. He's trying to cover all his bases while maintaining a bad attack on me.

PEDIT:
Well you were a help too, but I did plenty too to discern the alignment :c

[shos]

Mala, i know your role via extrapolation lol. And i understand why you say so.

One of us should be bged at random, if people agree that i am town.

[shos]

Why is everyone so town this game?!?!

MASSCLAIM PLEASE WUT

[Grimgroove]

It's either mastin or Ghostlin, and I'm leaning to the latter being the scum. I'll compile my thoughts on both of them tonight in more detail before placing a vote.

I don't think we need a claim from everyone, but I'd be fine with claiming myself.

@Malakittens: Your vote on me is the product of you being at a loss for alternatives and I don't blame you. But you are wrong, and no matter how well I played as scum that one game we were in, I think you'd note some differences between my play here and there. Also remember that you were my scumpartner at the time, so I don't think you got a true feel of my scumgame there.
Why is Ghostlin town to you?

[shos]

Oh actually that is a good idea.

A partial claim. Firstly gg and mastin. Then i will claim almost fully to explain malatown, and mhork the same for bv. If needed bv will claim too.

Objections?

[Grimgroove]

Before I get down to business (which will be in a couple of hours), I want to raise the following idea:

What about a no-lynch today? The way I see it, it's better than a mislynch, in which case we almost certainly lose a town-pr given this is role madness. It gives us all an extra night to work things out, abilities etc.

[Lord Mhork]

No lynch sounds bad. We've PoE'd it out good enough and scum will just kill an obv town

[shos]

Yeah but in role madness it allows more investigations or stuff alike.

Interesting.

I believe a massclaim cannot do us bad. We can also determine what is and isnt helpful and make order in our lynxhes.

[Grimgroove]

The thing I started considering: this is a role madness, so we can count on the remaining scum to have tricks up his sleeve, possibly countering some of our powers. Double-checking certain statements that were made today can't hurt, and a mislynch would limit our possibilities in this regard.

My overview of Ghostlin/mastin will probably have to wait for tomorrow. Busy night.

[shos]

PROD BV

He's not prod-eligible until tonight, or ~8 hours from now.

[mastin2]

Hey by the way mastin

VOTE: Lord Mhork.

Right, so Mala, I'm really liking what Mae's selling, combined with Mhork's overall bad posting.

Put it another way--funky might feel like scum...but Mhork also not only feels like scum, but LOOKS like scum as well.

Short on time atm, but basically, I really want today to be Mhork vs. Funky (lean towards Mhork), rather than Funky vs. Mae. Funky vs. Mae feels funky. Doesn't seem right, doesn't seem natural. Also, I know I said (and Mae agrees) that Mhork vs. Funky can't be scum-scum, but I'm kinda getting a gut feeling today that, somehow, despite all logic pointing to that not being right, it actually is right. Hence, another reason why having the two wagons be Funky and Mhork would be better.

What happened to this?

A post where I say that I want it to be between one scum and you? A post where I say that I think funky(scum)-Mhork is scum-scum? What the hell do you mean, "what happened to this"? I'm following through on it right now.

The thing is that he didn't go after funky right from the get go. He went after me and kept this odd semi scum read on funky which was only really supported by 'his posts are especially bad' and 'he looks scummy.' Also he never followed up. He just sorta kept it there as a backup, which scum mastin could totally do after reading funky as an especially weak scum player. Actually I'm interested now. How did mastin bus funky?

I SCUMHUNTED funky immediately.

Right, so I'm going to be townhunting this game since it seems easier.
[TOWNREADS]
Leaving {Mhork,

funky

, bv}. Mhork and funky don't look like scumbuddies, but they both look like scum, honestly. bv looks like a potential scumbuddy to either, but has stronger ties to Mhork.

funky looks like scum

, Mhork also looks like scum but NOT scum bussing, and bv

also

looks like scum;

my funky scumread is stronger

, despite bv having more ties to Mhork.

I'm especially interested in why you see bv as scum.

Half-POE, half overall weak posting that looks bad in general. bv's outside my townreads, and bv's posting is also minorly tripping my gut as scum-driven. Plus, his interactions aren't the greatest, either.

(Okay, so this one's mainly on bv. But I was also making a mental note of "they could be scumbuddies" from that.

Technically, you're working with me, since

my slot was voting funky

before yours was.

Mala, I could use your help, here.
See...I don't think funky and Mhork are scum together.

funky's posts have been horrible

, especially those on last page.

...But Mhork's posts are equally bad, especially the ones on

this

page.

Which do you think is scum? I really can't tell.

One moment, I think it's one of them

. The next moment, I think it's the other.

Put it another way--

funky might feel like scum

...but Mhork also not only feels like scum, but LOOKS like scum as well.

Short on time atm, but basically,

I really want today to be Mhork vs. Funky

(lean towards Mhork), rather than Funky vs. Mae. Funky vs. Mae feels funky. Doesn't seem right, doesn't seem natural. Also,

I know I said (and Mae agrees) that Mhork vs. Funky can't be scum-scum, but

I'm kinda getting a gut feeling today that, somehow, despite all logic pointing to that not being right, it actually is right

. Hence, another reason why having the two wagons be Funky and Mhork would be better.

Uhh...what? I said the opposite, that it's possible

[funky-Mhork is] scum-scum

.

I'll also talk about how they're both incredibly likely, separate from each other, to be scum

, both by POE and my townreads, and by, just...well...their godawful posting.

And consistently. It continues here, and here:

Not unvoting though.

If anyone hammers before Ghostlin can post, they will be the next lynch.

Does not compute.

If you have issues with me jumping off of funky, I guess I can understand that, but I stick by it being the right decision. Not only at the time, but still now, I think that funky-Mhork competing wagons on D1 is about the best situation we could have hoped for. I still think that Mhork can be scum. So if I jumped off of one scum to another, then yes, I will defend my play as being justified. But I won't tolerate people thinking that I wasn't suspicious of funky, that I wasn't pressuring him, and that I wasn't ready to vote him. I was waiting on feedback from Ghostlin and Malakittens. I was heavily considering moving my vote, too, but I was afraid that if I did, funky would be lynched before I got said feedback. Justifiably so, as it turns out. Funky was at L-1 at the time of my last post. (I couldn't vote him without hammering, and if I had voted earlier, he would have been hammered.) He was hammered before I had gotten the feedback I wanted from Malakittens and Ghostlin. Seriously, I can quote dozens of posts in which I ask for that feedback. I ask for them to give thoughts on Mhork-funky. I was waiting on them. And I'm going to stick by that decision. There's a REASON bv's hammer looked scummy-as-hell; it cut off discussion.

This post is also bad from mastin. He's saying we probably aren't scum-scum, but also leaves the window open for it to be scum-scum after all. This wavering isn't town at all. He's trying to cover all his bases while maintaining a bad attack on me.

Quite the opposite. I'm explaining exactly WHY I THINK YOU'RE

BOTH

SCUM. Read that post again. I make it as explicit as I possibly can. "I realize that you guys think Mhork-funky can't be scum-scum". I say. "But I really,

really

think they both are." I explain. There is no contradiction. There is no window. This is simply be addressing the concerns around my theory, and explaining it.

I'm going to make a nigh suicidal suggestion, but if you believe in the PoE here, you work on us from most to least suspicious. In this case, it would be me, then Mastin, then GG.

Thing is, you're not scum and I'm not scum. If it really were just between the three of us, GG should go first, and me second. Why? Well...

A partial claim. Firstly gg and mastin. Then i will claim almost fully to explain malatown, and mhork the same for bv. If needed bv will claim too.

Objections?

I was hoping to have this wait until tomorrow, buuuuut...

Short of there being three scum, a mafia roleblocker, or a strongman-kill, Ghostlin is confirmed town.
/softclaim.

[mastin2]

EDBWOP:

"If it really were just between the three of us, GG should go first, and me second."
Was supposed to have followthrough after the softclaim which I forgot to add in.

"...Buuuuuut, I really, REALLY don't think it's a good idea to limit it to the three of us. I'm town, you're town, and the only possible scum name there is GG. But I don't think it's him. I still think it's Mhork."

[mastin2]

The thing I started considering: this is a role madness, so we can count on the remaining scum to have tricks up his sleeve, possibly countering some of our powers.

Not only potentially countering some of our own powers, but also potentially offering an explanation of scum play. Know what the best lie as scum is? The truth. For instance, a scum-Mhork having a role which, correctly, can identify bv as being town. It might identify bv as being town, but it doesn't identify him as not being scum. (Admittedly, the same is true of me, and Ghostlin. My role doesn't identify me as town, but it gives a STRONG inclination for Ghostlin to be town. Because those three scenarios I listed are the only ways I can possibly see Ghostlin being scum.)

[shos]

Look, mhork is really not a lynch for today. if you can vouch for ghost, that's perfect, that means we lynch GG, you and mhork in any order and we win 100%. I'd like to see those claims now

GG, mastin and mhork have agreed; waiting on Ghost,

bv

and mala to confirm and let's do this.

[Malakittens]

Sorta okay with a mass claim. ;-;

[Ghostlin]

I'm ok with massclaim in that everyone knows my role and I could get in front of any investigative roles tonight.

[Lord Mhork]

Hey guess what, mastin! Still not scum. I haven't been scum. I haven't for awhile now. You're push on me is bad and you should feel bad for 'scumhunting' so poorly.

If we are mass claiming, mastin first.

[mastin2]

If you can vouch for ghost, that's perfect.

I can't do so 100%, because it's theoretically possible, in select circumstances, for him to be scum, as mentioned above. But aside from those? (And, hell, even if the scum HAVE a roleblocker and/or a strongman and/or a third member, there's no guarantee it's Ghostlin anyway. ) Yes, I can, with 99.97% confidence (the .03% being the three possible scenarios), vouch for Ghostlin being town, enough where I am willing to die before him.

The issue is, I don't think GG is scum. I think Mhork is. I guess I can understand not lynching Mhork today. But I think doing so is merely prolonging the game unnecessarily, and that GG will flip town.

[mastin2]

If we are mass claiming, mastin first.

Already softclaimed. I'll hardclaim first if asked to by a townread.

[Lord Mhork]

Mastin, why would I power bus funky when there were soooooo many other wagons I could have forced through?

PEDIT:
Fuck off you're being asked by a town read of pretty much everyone else.

[shos]

GG, mastin, mhork. whoever gets this first, claim.