Micro 242: Les Miserables Mafia (Game Over)

[shos]

Alright well you guys seem to just ignore this that way so GG you go first, then mhork and then mastin.

[Grimgroove]

I'm Gavroche, Town Follower.

I went to bv310 last night. Result: "No result". This means either I was blocked, or he was blocked.
It doesn't mean he didn't do anything, because then I would have gotten "None" as a result.

[penguin_alien]

Where are the leaders of the town? Where are the swells whose votes we sheep?
How should we lynch, can we decide, where the majority will leap?

Time runs on quick and twilight nears, of agreement there is no sign
With such confusion in the game, how long before we hit deadline,
And we will have to make a choice by then, before the night phase starts again!

With seven alive, it takes four to lynch!

Vote Count 2.02

Lord Mhork (L-3): mastin2
Malakittens (L-4):
mastin2 (L-2): shos, Lord Mhork
bv310 (L-3): Ghostlin
Ghostlin (L-4):
shos (L-4):
Grimgroove (L-3): Malakittens

Not voting: bv310, Grimgroove

V/LA:

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-11-04 00:21:24)

[Lord Mhork]

No mastin before me. I've already said this. The less info he gets, the better.

[Malakittens]

Jesus Mhork come on.

[Lord Mhork]

Where's mastin? Why isn't he jumping at the chance to clear himself?

[shos]

because he's not

here

. come on, what does ti matter? :/

@GG: that's interesting :O

[Grimgroove]

Not as interesting as I wanted it to be, as it's entirely inconclusive.
Hoping to be able to invest more time in this game today, in order to get my thoughts sorted and communicated.

[shos]

Eh, youll see why it is interesting when i claim. Would you have cced funky with your role?

[Grimgroove]

It was my initial reaction to do so, that's why I had put all these questionmarks after 2. in post 406. His claim seemed far too reminiscent to my role.

[shos]

..while that might be true, everyone is so town in this game that i can still see youscum, lol.. I always love fakeclaiming a role my buddy has with his results and shit, so if funky did that too hoping to share your result, you may be it

We shall see. Mhork fits too..

[mastin2]

GG, mastin, mhork. whoever gets this first, claim.

Alright.

Claim: Jailkeeper

. I jailed Ghostlin last night. Thus, why short of a third scum (his scumbuddy doing the killing), him being a roleblocker (and also requiring roleblocker resolving before jailkeep, even though that's fairly standard) AND blocking me, or him being a strongman, he's confirmed town.

I'm sure there's at least one way that you'll be going, "...huh?" to my claim, so let's see if I can hit the common points.

-

"Doesn't your role conflict with Ghostlin's?"

Theoretically, yes, in that they're both protective roles. But I don't think so. They actually work awesomely together, and you know why? Both have a negative aspect to them. The bodyguard's protection is a self-sacrifice. The jailkeeper's protection prevents the target from actioning. Maybe, maaaaaaaybe in a normal micro game, they'd conflict, but this game is explicitly role madness, and I can easily see two different protective roles in the game. Plus, there's the fact that they can't create a self-feeding loop. Doctor-BG, yes. JK-bg, not so much. The jailkeeper blocks the bodyguard.

-

"Weren't you at all suspicious of him, though? Even a little bit?"

Okay. So I admit it. If that same claim had come from, say, Mhork, I would have lynched his ass. Know why? Because I typically take the stance as a player to trust my reads over roleclaims. I do make exceptions to the rule, and it's more like a general guideline, but it's generally how I treat the game. I can see Ghostlin's role as being a scum fakeclaim...but I can't see Ghostlin being scum fakeclaiming. In addition to having Mae as a townread, in addition to having Ghostlin as a townread, there's also the way he claimed and how he's handled himself the whole game. That all says town, and thus, I trusted him to actually be town.

-

"Okay. But why protect a role whose explicit purpose is to die?"

Well, I figured the scum were either going to kill him or Malakittens. Both were my strongest townreads, both are incredibly-strong players, Ghostlin's role would be a pain in the ass to scum, and Malakittens was a decent townread of people. But, knowing it was role madness, I figured that Malakittens very well could be an investigative role, and I didn't want to roleblock her. Whereas with Ghostlin, I knew his claim. I knew what his role did. It was a self-sacrificing protection. And thus, not an investigative role. And thus, not something my own role could interfere with.

Plus, it had an added bonus. If a kill went through (like it did), then aside from very select circumstances (which I don't believe to be true*), it'd confirm Ghostlin as being town with only one scum alive, and put aside people's doubt on him once and for all.

*Okay. So I actually think there may be a mafia interference role. Maybe a commuter (if bv were a commuter, then it'd explain Grimgroove's no-result), maybe a roleblocker, but I don't think GHOSTLIN is that player.

[Malakittens]

Mastin

Name claim too please love <3

[shos]

Ok. Whos next, mhork, gogo.

[shos]

You guys are pathetically active today, lol! compared to yesterday, lol..

Ehm, I kinda believe that we have two enemies left. probably some kind of odd-night SK or something and one supermob.
The reason I'm saying this is that even this far, the town looks totally powerful. The scum was a redirector - a super powerful scum role which can confuse town like mad, and we nailed him; post #1 says that the setup was r"eviewed by Faraday, N, JacobSavage, and chkflip for balance. This game is not bastard and does not contain cults, jesters, lynchers, or survivors." . it does not say anything about SKs, and with THIS team of reviewers, it's gotta blanace.

With the amount of power town has, I think it is not so unsafe to assume one kill got blocked..

[Ghostlin]

GG, mastin, mhork. whoever gets this first, claim.

Alright.

Claim: Jailkeeper

. I jailed Ghostlin last night. Thus, why short of a third scum (his scumbuddy doing the killing), him being a roleblocker (and also requiring roleblocker resolving before jailkeep, even though that's fairly standard) AND blocking me, or him being a strongman, he's confirmed town.

I'm sure there's at least one way that you'll be going, "...huh?" to my claim, so let's see if I can hit the common points.

-

"Doesn't your role conflict with Ghostlin's?"

Theoretically, yes, in that they're both protective roles. But I don't think so. They actually work awesomely together, and you know why? Both have a negative aspect to them. The bodyguard's protection is a self-sacrifice. The jailkeeper's protection prevents the target from actioning. Maybe, maaaaaaaybe in a normal micro game, they'd conflict, but this game is explicitly role madness, and I can easily see two different protective roles in the game. Plus, there's the fact that they can't create a self-feeding loop. Doctor-BG, yes. JK-bg, not so much. The jailkeeper blocks the bodyguard.

-

"Weren't you at all suspicious of him, though? Even a little bit?"

Okay. So I admit it. If that same claim had come from, say, Mhork, I would have lynched his ass. Know why? Because I typically take the stance as a player to trust my reads over roleclaims. I do make exceptions to the rule, and it's more like a general guideline, but it's generally how I treat the game. I can see Ghostlin's role as being a scum fakeclaim...but I can't see Ghostlin being scum fakeclaiming. In addition to having Mae as a townread, in addition to having Ghostlin as a townread, there's also the way he claimed and how he's handled himself the whole game. That all says town, and thus, I trusted him to actually be town.

-

"Okay. But why protect a role whose explicit purpose is to die?"

Well, I figured the scum were either going to kill him or Malakittens. Both were my strongest townreads, both are incredibly-strong players, Ghostlin's role would be a pain in the ass to scum, and Malakittens was a decent townread of people. But, knowing it was role madness, I figured that Malakittens very well could be an investigative role, and I didn't want to roleblock her. Whereas with Ghostlin, I knew his claim. I knew what his role did. It was a self-sacrificing protection. And thus, not an investigative role. And thus, not something my own role could interfere with.

Plus, it had an added bonus. If a kill went through (like it did), then aside from very select circumstances (which I don't believe to be true*), it'd confirm Ghostlin as being town with only one scum alive, and put aside people's doubt on him once and for all.

*Okay. So I actually think there may be a mafia interference role. Maybe a commuter (if bv were a commuter, then it'd explain Grimgroove's no-result), maybe a roleblocker, but I don't think GHOSTLIN is that player.

This is so buttfuck nuts I'm blink through the layers involved in this. If Mastin's scum on this claim, it's intricate.

Of course, there's the other reason that Mastin could be claimng JK, is a scum JK/roleblocker, and blocked me because I could of saved Elle.

[Ghostlin]

Also, going to check something. BRB.

[Lord Mhork]

What's your name, mastin?

Btdubs I don't believe his claim. He committed a certain tell that I've actually found surprisingly strong when it comes to role claims. Plus there's way too much preemptive defense in there for me to feel comfortable. It was very forced and polished, like he'd been thinking really hard about how he'd put it

PEDIT:
It's not even that intricate of a claim. Like, at all.

[Ghostlin]

OK. I also am checking something with the mod.

[Grimgroove]

I'm not liking all these pre-emptive explanations. Why would you think a true-claim through to such an extent?

Sounds more like a fakeclaim that's been checked and double-checked for holes, and is now confidently being presented by mastin.

It's too intricate. If mastin were truly a jailkeeper I don't see why he'd have thought about how much sense his role makes. He'd know the role was there, he wouldn't have to wonder WHY it's there and how much sense it makes.

Hrm.

[Grimgroove]

What's your name, mastin?

Btdubs I don't believe his claim. He committed a certain tell that I've actually found surprisingly strong when it comes to role claims. Plus there's way too much preemptive defense in there for me to feel comfortable. It was very forced and polished, like he'd been thinking really hard about how he'd put it

PEDIT:
It's not even that intricate of a claim. Like, at all.

Agreed.

[Ghostlin]

Although it leaves us with one fact: I'm roughly 80% clear, unless there's a really odd scum/town distribution.

[Lord Mhork]

So it's mastin vs GG? I'm cool with that.

[Grimgroove]

What do you make of my claim Mhork?
The way I understood it, you also visited bv310 last night. Do the results of that visit resonate in any way with the claim I have made?

[mastin2]

Mastin

Name claim too please love <3

Whoops. Knew I forgot something.

Marius.

Ehm, I kinda believe that we have two enemies left. probably some kind of odd-night SK or something and one supermob.

With the amount of power town has, I think it is not so unsafe to assume one kill got blocked..

So basically, you think that Ghostlin was either killed by scum or is scum?

Which do you find more likely? (I find the former more probable.)

Plus there's way too much preemptive defense in there for me to feel comfortable. It was very forced and polished, like he'd been thinking really hard about how he'd put it.

Actually, I was. I'm not going to go into the details, but the last time I made a roleclaim, I winged it. I

didn't

have the preemptive defense. I

didn't

have a polished claim. I HADN'T thought it through. And guess what? I got mislynched. So this game, I made damn sure that I was addressing all the concerns other town players would have with my claim. Because I knew that there would be some, given my night action choice and overall handling of my role is a bit...unusual.

But it's the town unusual, not a scum unusual. Be honest. If I claimed just "jailkeeper, targeted Ghostlin N1", how many of the questions in my post would you have asked? (Or similar.) One? Two? All? You know damn well and good it wasn't going to be none of them, and that you'd accept the claim at face value. So did I. (Granted. I knew that this was coming, and originally had a section called,

"Why this long explanation, Mastin?"

, but I forgot to actually type it in the post. ) If I thought that my claim was going to be believed just because I'm town and it's true, that'd be pure sheer idiotic ignorance. It's backfired on me before (always as town, mind you), it'd backfire on me this game. And I really want this to be a perfect win. I really want this to be a solid town game. I really want us to lynch scum today. And even if my death got us closer, it'd taint that record.

Also, Mhork, I can't help but notice you've yet to roleclaim, despite being next on the list.

It's too intricate. If mastin were truly a jailkeeper I don't see why he'd have thought about how much sense his role makes. He'd know the role was there, he wouldn't have to wonder WHY it's there and how much sense it makes.

Uh, I'm not?

I'm thinking about how much sense

Ghostlin's

role makes with my own. I know my own role is here, and don't have to wonder WHY it's here, but I DON'T know for sure why GHOSTLIN'S role is here, and DID wonder why it was here, and thought about why it makes sense as being present with my own.