Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[Magua]

Vote Count 2.16

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Klick (4): Seanald, pieguyn, Harakiri, Klick
VoidedMafia (4): morph the cat, BBmolla, uʍop ǝpısdn, 1baldeagle1
Nero Cain (3): Lord Mhork, zMuffinMan, VoidedMafia
Lord Mhork (2): Nero Cain, Zdenek
morph the cat (1): Pyrotechnics
uʍop ǝpısdn (1): ProHawk
Lost Butterfly (1): Lost Butterfly
DoctorPepper (1): Garuda

Not Voting (3): Banakai, DoctorPepper, PeregrineV

Deadline for Day 2 is Friday, November 1st, at 2:00pm EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2013-11-01 13:00:00)

Zdenek and Klick have been prodded.

[Seanald]

We need your top six town reads (excluding yourself) and the 5 abilities you think are most important to advertise.

Alrighty.

TownReads

Morph
Garuda
Lost butterfly
Muffin
Nero
Pieguy

Abilities

Market analyst
coroner
Doctor
Cop
Commuter

[BBmolla]

Lemme know when I need to do something

Might just replace out, doubt I'll catch up at this point.

[pieguyn]

plz don't make someone else dive through hell like I had to

[pieguyn]

189. it's a joke which is why I find it weird how serious you were about it
442. no that's all there was to that it seemed genuine
524. uu i can't expain this any more don't fk with me on this plzI know what I saw and i'm too tired to explain now
785. if you wanted him to explain itself i feel you'd be less pissed off and you'd at least consider answering the questions he asked
982. a. no the way you admitted it seems like you did it to avoid heat. not sure if it was "terse" but that's what I know I saw
982. b. no 189 was not the whole reason I had a scumread on you. it came from everything I quoted about you. 189 didn't "solidify" it per se cause it's the first thing I noticed but I'd still have a scumread on you without 189. you admit this is a possibility but the first thing you think of is that it did just cause 189 came first? when such logic is provably fallacious? seems like scum BS'ing imo
after 982. no that doesn't make any sense either

[pieguyn]

I also want to say I have a good read (or as good a read as I'm going to get) on most players before redirecting the lynch.

Time is money. :/

yeah which is why I wanted to quicklynch. for me getting a lot of money seems key in this setup. and the key to getting more money than scum might be the efficiency bonus cause seems scum doesn't get that

[DoctorPepper]

Town:
LB
Pyro
Zmuffin
Zdnek
Mhork
morph

Abilities:
Cop
Doctor
Self Watch
Tracker
Auction Detective

I'll read the rest tonight/tomorrow. This game is pretty fucking long

[zMuffinMan]

This risk doesn't seem to be very large. Do you think it is?

about as large as the risk of being called scummy for suggesting people funnel you money!

[zMuffinMan]

drpepper's scum reads are really weird. it hurts my head reading them.

[Zdenek]

Prodded.

Will catch-up soon.

[Magua]

Ghostly Penguin (a hydra of Ghostlin and penguin_alien) replaces Banakai.

[morph the cat]

Zdenek's posts have looked town but there simply aren't enough of them, given it's zdenek, for me to feel really comfortable calling him town. kinda feel the same way about bmolla but maybe not as much.

ordering most to least townish, this is my list of 6 least town players. This is a gestalt list right now based on my impressions of body of work so far. I haven't gone back through their isos with a fine tooth comb yet.

Garuda - BoP, guys.
muffin - He keeps posting things I agree with, but it's interspersed with stuff I'm not so sure about. Today's the day for that meta project.
DP - Without a lot more participation and some sense of where the hell those reads came from he's not likely to move into my town pile
Nero - I'm still feeling like this is a reproduction of his town game and maybe not the real deal
Voided/Klick - Gut says there is scum here. Nacho's arguments for why my scumpile is terrible usually resonate for me, or at least convince me to back off a little. I feel like I'm doing that out of habit, not out of resonance.

[Nero Cain]

This is a prod dodge so expect a post by tonight but I wanted to comment at this.

Morph-No good can come from a repeat of Rach's game

[morph the cat]

This is a prod dodge so expect a post by tonight but I wanted to comment at this.

Morph-No good can come from a repeat of Rach's game

No argument there. But, what about my play looks like I'm tunneling you?

[Nero Cain]

nothing yet.

[zMuffinMan]

muffin - He keeps posting things I agree with, but it's interspersed with stuff I'm not so sure about.

what "stuff"?

[morph the cat]

nothing yet.

It looks like you've either ignored or maybe disagree with the plan that Cabd came up with. Do you have other ideas for how town should proceed given the game mechanics?

[PeregrineV]

Behind, will catch up today/night.

Top 6 town favs:
6. Lost Butterfly (a hydra of Faraday and Mina)
7. Garuda (a hydra of Empire and Nachomamma8)
9. morph the cat (a hydra of Cabd and fferyllt)
11. Ghostly Penguin (a hydra of Ghostlin and penguin_alien) (replaces Banakai)
13. uʍop ǝpısdn (a hydra of N and Quilford)
me

Fav Abilites:
Doc
Cop
Market Analyst
Wage Freeze
Forensic Accountant
Watcher

[morph the cat]

Behind, will catch up today/night.

Top 6 town favs:
6. Lost Butterfly (a hydra of Faraday and Mina)
7. Garuda (a hydra of Empire and Nachomamma8)
9. morph the cat (a hydra of Cabd and fferyllt)
11. Ghostly Penguin (a hydra of Ghostlin and penguin_alien) (replaces Banakai)
13. uʍop ǝpısdn (a hydra of N and Quilford)
me

Fav Abilites:
Doc
Cop
Market Analyst
Wage Freeze
Forensic Accountant
Watcher

Pick one more player you think is town. We're not including ourselves in the lists.

[Nero Cain]

nothing yet.

It looks like you've either ignored or maybe disagree with the plan that Cabd came up with. Do you have other ideas for how town should proceed given the game mechanics?

no, just thought I'd finish catching up fist but top 6 town are

PeregrineV
pieguyn
Garuda
morph the cat
uʍop ǝpısdn
ProHawk


abilities to advertise are

cop
doc
watcher
tracker
love potion
bulletproof

and I'll let you know if my reads change.

[zMuffinMan]

what "stuff", morph?

[morph the cat]

what "stuff", morph?

I'm walling. I'll have "stuff" for your reading pleasure soon.

[Zdenek]

I don't really feel like reading all of the walls. Is there any reason not to lynch Voided or Mhork that I am unaware of?

[morph the cat]

zmuffinman's stuff I agreed with

Spoiler:

Why do you find that post so suspicious? I mean, is it that unlikely that a townie would bid on investigation immune?

not directed at me, but while i don't find going for investigation immunity suspicious, i do think that if scum really wanted it, $80 wouldn't be enough to stop them from getting it. and i think you would know this. you never answered upside down's question about why you thought $80 would be enough to stop scum getting it.

I also liked 73 and 84 - the whole progression. I would have liked it more if it had been zmuffin's catch in the first place.

Loved 93. Coincidentally it was about here in the thread that my read of Lost Butterfly started to turn around. In both cases, it was based on their reactions to Voided's first few posts.

P-EDIT: LB's fine, leave them be.

do you think LB is town? or you just don't think they're scum?

Not really. Nice try generalizing, though.

i wasn't generalising. i couldn't find anything i liked about your initial wall, outside of maybe the baldeagle vote, but you changed your mind on that shortly after and now you're voting prohawk for reasons you haven't explained. it seems to have something to do with #103, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

These were additional reasons to the ones I was accumulating for not liking voided at that time. I like seeing divergent playstyles coming up with convergent reads, especially when the reasoning makes sense, even though it's not how I'm approaching the game.

I have part of this discussion in my "I'm not sure about" pile, but 148 and the posts that led up to it look like zmuffin was trying to pick apart a knot of interactions involving Voided, Lost Butterfly and baldeagle, with a focus on why Voided was scumreading Lost Butterfly but voting baldeagle. That kind of wide-focused approach looks town to me, and kinda makes me envious of players who can see the game with that wide a focus on day 1. It also was homing in on what I've seen as a minor theme wrt Voided throwing FoSes at more difficult targets and voting easier targets.

Given how little I'm liking bald's push on them, I'm starting to think they're town. At the very least I don't think they're scum. I like their most recent post as well.

^^ I kinda think this is townish just because I feel like even if it's faulty it was him trying to apply a genuine reason to get a read on us.

really? i had the complete opposite reaction to this. it looks like him making up a reason and not thinking about it from a town perspective (he should know it's faulty logic).

i don't understand why you don't think his ignorance is sincere, he seems kind of an idiot

the sheer volume of it. it reminds me of other times i've seen it done and overplayed. take, for example, neil's ISO in this game. multiple posts at the beginning of the game, faking ignorance of the setup.

i don't understand why you're writing it off as sincere.

I liked this post because it picked up on something that I didn't see in Voided's post at the time, though I've seen more of it as the game has progressed. Because I agree that this quoted post as well as some others that I've highlighted don't appear to be coming from a town point of view.

How about a game baldeagle played? viewtopic.php?f=51&t=31132

He was town psychologist. He had to claim on day 1 because of the lolscum reaction to his play.

what about it?

Again, what reason is there that I have to believe that LB is opposite scum to Baldeagle?

no... the point is you

shouldn't be assuming it isn't the case

, and you are assuming that.

it's the equivalent to calling someone town in a known multiball game because someone you're scum reading is calling that person scum.

it's fucking stupid. it's faulty logic, and if you were actually town you'd know this.

Even though I disagree with it, I liked that he called our townishness into question over this. It's not two scum teams in the usual sense. They win together, and they have no reason to go after players they suspect are on the opposite team. I'm thinking that scum are going to focus on VIs, not potential opposite numbers. So, why did I like it? Because if he's scum and he thinks I'm other-scum then calling me out like this should be low on his list of good things to do. The irritability came off townish too. In his very next post, he voted Voided, which I also liked.

the game i linked, neil (scum) feigns ignorance of the setup over multiple posts in the early game for towncred. he literally stated this in the scum qt, but didn't plan exactly how he would do it. lots of people wrote him off as town in the early game because of it (including moi, lolol). it's similar to what baldeagle was doing here.

a players logic doesn't get more dumb with a scum pm

the logic is that he isn't thinking about it from the perspective he's town looking at two factions because he's in one of those factions

.

When I originally read the bolded in the above post, my reaction was "SO MUCH THIS!" On its own in reread this makes me want to put zmuffin back at the top of my townpile.

16. ProHawk - On the basis of his replies to Cabd, me.

is this referring to 542? because iirc you didn't like all his earlier responses to you.

Scum
1. VoidedMafia - waffling between top of this list and bottom of null list.
21. Klick
15. Hermy

are you going to vote one of these players?

---

Posturing.

459? how? the second line of 459 was kind of meh but i don't know what you mean by posturing here.

So many things I liked about the above post. I liked muffin pushing for specifics and detail on my read change wrt ProHawk. I liked him pushing me for commitment to vote. And I liked him pushing garuda for more detail on his Klick read.

It's bothering me atm that Nacho-garuda isn't pushing for a different lynch at the moment, he's arguing against the two top lynch contenders' wagons

same thing that bothered me. they're "working on it" as of #1635, apparently

^^ Liked this. Would have liked it better if he (or anybody else I'm hoping are town) had said it first.

drpepper's scum reads are really weird. it hurts my head reading them.

^^ And liked this, because he

did

say it first.

zmuffinman's stuff I'm not sure about

Spoiler:

104, 105 I didn't like the whole line of questioning wrt baldeagle because to me (and perhaps this is because of a prior game with him) baldeagle looked like he wasn't initially in tune with the size and complexity of the game, and this felt very much like a newb's reaction to their first large theme game.

@voided,

why couldn't LB be other mafia if baldy is scum? what about LB's most recent post did you like (or think is town)?

and i don't see anything particularly telling one way or another about #103. why did you think it was scummy enough to warrant a vote?

also what happened to you thinking baldeagle was just out of his depth in a large game? that read reversed again rather quickly.

This one, I would have put in my "like" pile to start with, but one of the things I kinda don't like about zmuffin's posts is that his trajectory on baldeagle was opaque and when I asked he couldn't really point to where the read changed. This post suggests that he was well aware of why other players weren't scumreading baldeagle though it was many many pages before he first indicated he was townreading baldeagle.

240

This post was one of the first premonitions I had that our contribution to the game was probably going to include a fair proportion of trying to get players we're townreading off each others' cases/wagons. baldeagle was scumreading Lost Butterfly, zmuffin was scumreading baldeagle, and we were townreading both of them. :/

330 is another one that I originally thought was a townpoint. But, on reread it felt like his "wide" focus that I commented on early is not really that wide. He's accosting other players to state opinions on this group of three players and it's like the whole game is being viewed through this lens and other players sorted based on their opinions about this triumvirate.

523The main thing that jumped out here was the defense of ProHawk, which was on the basis of his agreeing with zmuffin about...the triumvirate.

526He's liking zdenek for much the same reasons. This firms up to a town read later.

549Mild defense of Mhork. "finding his feet". This struck me as interesting given his lack of sympathy for baldeagle.

564 and 623 - he's switched to bmolla, but there's no indication of why, except for bmolla's prior post. of what he disliked about bmolla's posts. In 623 he says he didn't like bmolla's ISO but there's nothing concrete. Based on context, it was apparently these next two posts that were the tipping point.

do you have scum reads outside of voided?

Honestly, no.

Well Prohawk minorly.

it comes not too long after Deadline is activated and it just feels like he's trying to fake being blindsided by it.

maybe. but that seems like a rather dumb post to make as scum shortly after the deadline ability was used.

i also think 757 looked more townish than scum.

This post has a slight flavor of coaching, somehow. Could be my bias about Klick, though.

DO you disagree with any of the townreads in that list?

completely null on banakai - i'm not reading his initial posts the same way you apparently are.
prohawk i'm still sorting. not a town read, though.
LB and garuda i don't feel anywhere near as strongly about as you apparently do. i liked some of mina's posts in the later portion of D1, but that's about it for LB. garuda i'm really meh on right now. i didn't really like nacho's reasoning for the voided town read and i don't remember much the empire head has done outside of iioa.

apart from the klick scum read and some of the null reads, most of your other reads are in line with my own.

^^ This struck an off note, because I had the distinct impression that zmuffin has defended prohawk in a few posts. But, the apparent flip-flop was due to prohawk calling hermy obvtown after not defending her more vociferously on late day 1.

dribble

drivel*

What's Nero done?

this is actually the point. what

has

Nero done?

he's obviously following the thread, at least well enough that he can comment on minor things here and there sprinkled throughout the thread, yet he's managed to avoid commenting on every major event, and avoid mentioning most of the people who are playing this game. not only that, but when you look at the reasons for the few reads he's actually given, they're pretty fucking shit. nero's being a non-presence in this game. nothing to do with his post count and everything to do with him coasting on little content.

the argument he had with mhork is just the icing on the cake, here, and i don't know how people think Nero came out looking better from that. did any of you actually look at Nero's argument there?

the only good thing i can see in nero's iso is a voided vote, but i'm having second thoughts about voided atm so i'm not even sure that's a good thing.

This bugs me because IME it's pretty common of Nero. I think I usually wind up concluding that Nero and I are playing the same game in alternate universes. I have only town-nero experience in completed games, but from the metadives I did for other games, his town games come off much more strongly srsbzns than the scum game or two that I read during AMoL. This game doesn't feel like his scum games. But, it feels like a very mechanical version of his town games. IOW I think this is not the right reason for having a problem with Nero atm.

Extraneous stuff

656 - this caught my eye: zmuffin is specifically calling out garuda's "synch achieved" post. I thought that Nacho was emulating/having fun with one of my habits as a hydra of putting down a vote long after I first telegraph the concern by indicating that there has been en hydra discussion resulting in the vote - finally.

I can't form an opinion yet of the nero/zmuffin stuff. But, I'm reminded of zmuffin's exhortations about otherscum team, and my own sense that scum may stick with pushing scummy-looking but low hanging fruit to start with.

[Zdenek]

zMuff is probably scum.