Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[morph the cat]

BUT ISN'T MY KITTEN ADORABLE???

Yes he is!

[morph the cat]

As far as accountability for the night transactions. We could designate the top scum reads and have them transfer to top town reads.

Last game we had a table where we indicated which suspect would transfer what amount of money to which town read; however, that is part of what magua fixed. But if it's still random chance it could work.

WRONG HYDRA

That's pretty much the plan I have on the table, with modifications to counter scum's new tampering powers.

Hence the "give us 6 town reads and 5 abilities" comment.

That, plus we're not limiting the random money shuffle donors to scumreads.

[Pyrotechnics]

Morph - why are we in your top 6 town reads and garuda isn't when nacho is part of the reason you were town reading us?

[Garuda]

I didn't bid on anything

Who should I dayvig

Edit: lol selfvote

VOTE: zMuffinMan

I liked BB's opening! I had a feeling his openings as scum/town are actually similar to his play in face to face, went through a few of his games and tried to peg him based on his first post and his first post only. The conclusion was that this tell holds a hell of a lot better than it should and BBMolla's opening is a town point in his direction.

(Well, to add to my recent post, I find Muffin's reasons for suspecting baldeagle plausible.

Hey, BBmolla, why the fuck is your vote on Muffin, particularly since you've been calling multiple other people scum?)

Evil scheme

Or I forgot

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lost Butterfly

Why the profanity

I liked the attempt to tilt LB, which feels like a seriously unlikely scum BBMolla move. It makes sense for him to figure out Mina acting weird if she's bullshitting about a gambit, and it makes sense he's not able to articulate

why

she feels weird. It's also a move to put him on the map early, which is cool.

Lynching Lost Butterfly day 1 is a HUGE waste, even if you guys are scum, cause I still think you'll legitimately scumhunt to find your buddies. I just wanted to see Mina's reaction to it more than anything.

This seemed like strange BBMolla reasoning, but decidedly townish. I can't see him coming up with a plan to soft tilt Mina and then back off regardless of reaction and then say "oh I'll leave you alive for a while to scumhunt your buddies" as scum.

I also like how visibly guilty he is about catching up in the thread; it feels more genuine than him falling behind in Communism Ho. His main effort to catch up is pretty much to be obvious town, asks everyone what he needs to do feels good to me.

[morph the cat]

Morph - why are we in your top 6 town reads and garuda isn't when nacho is part of the reason you were town reading us?

My read on Nacho slipped. It's firmed up, but I wish he'd put more effort on who he thinks is scum.

But, he and I went through this very exercise of selling our town reads to our other town reads as sangres in Walking Dead. And sort of the same thing in Perpetual Mylo too, though I think what we were remembered for was correctly identifying 4/5 of the scum team while at L-1 on day 1.

I think that sort of heartfelt read-documentation and selling may work better when the player is personally not on entirely solid ground. It turns the effort into something more selfless and altruistic and for-the-sake-of-town, when it could otherwise look like (and be) an effort at consolidating power.

[Pyrotechnics]

Hey, Tammy, what's your read on us? It feels like your interactions with us today have been really toned down compared to yesterday (and yet you've implied you still think we're scum). baldeagle, too. Do you still have a scumread on us?

Still leaning scum. I guess my interaction is toned down because I sobered up? >_> Or maybe I'm just in evaluation mode as arguing accomplished absolutely nothing.

I don't get what the purpose of this question is though.

[Pyrotechnics]

[

1166: Tammy tells me she doesn't like me putting stuff in brackets

I didn't like the extra stuff in brackets because it felt tacked on and self-conscious. Like you needed to let us know that you really thought that Hermy was scum for some reason.

[BBmolla]

I liked BB's opening! I had a feeling his openings as scum/town are actually similar to his play in face to face, went through a few of his games and tried to peg him based on his first post and his first post only. The conclusion was that this tell holds a hell of a lot better than it should and BBMolla's opening is a town point in his direction.

Huh

I'd be curious to hear what this is someday

Do I need to post the top town/top advertising thing that everyone is doing?

[morph the cat]

Do I need to post the top town/top advertising thing that everyone is doing?

Please do.

I'm going to make a huge spoilered post of the results so far pretty soon.

[Garuda]

I think this post is a pretty great reason to call Banakai town + morph's gut. His advertisement claims seem pretty townish as well, and from what ended up popping up seemed pretty disorganized to the point where I don't think scumteams invested a lot in "advertise something to look town".

I really liked Sakura taking the leading role in Harakiri; Natirasha is more the scum preference member of the hydra and I expect he's the one who would be taking the lead if they rolled scum. Her early efforts to sort felt pretty damn genuine, especially her attack of Lost Butterfly in #207. I like that she's relied on me a bit, but not too heavily; she's been making her own pushes then coming back to sheeping us when she loses steam on a push.

I think sitting in the middle of the thread complaining about how stupid everything is was less likely to be coming from a scum Natirasha. Scum usually thrive during times where the gamestate is completely fucked (aka when everyone's fighting) and I know Natirasha is particularly more in tune with the tempo of the thread than most people so it makes a lot of sense that it bothered him so strongly.

On the whole, I want to make money to salvage the night phase as best we can. Let's lynch hard and fast

I liked the pushes to quicklynch. They felt like something Natirasha was less likely to pull as scum, and also consistent with his earlier frustration.

Awwww, how cute, I managed to make sakura paranoid. Tell the other head he still owes me a setup spec dance.

Yeah, I'm here. I'm always up for a dance. First, some fitting music.

Spoiler: And here's the Mafia Role PMs from MMII

The free market is fine, but it’s so...inefficient. A shame, really, but from that insight you quickly realized that with the help of a few others who shared your views that this is a turning point, a time of opportunity. Control of the marketplace can lead to all of your dreams coming true; given such a reward, it’s obvious that you’ll do anything to eliminate the competition -- permanently.

You are a Mafia (Left Hand) Member.

Nest Egg: You start the game with $150.
Wage: At the end of every Day, you will receive $100.
Efficiency Bonus: You do not receive an efficiency bonus.
Mafia Bonus: At the end of every Day, $100 is split evenly amongst the living members of your team (any fractions are lost).

Money (P): Each Night, you may spend any or all of your money on the following activities:
Bid: Bid on abilities being auctioned off in the marketplace. Described in Section III.
Invest: The following Night, you will receive 140% (round down) of what you invested (note that this is different from the Entrepreneur’s investment rate).
Transfer: Choose another player. If that player is on your team, they will immediately receive 95% (round down) of what you transferred. Otherwise, they will receive it the following Night (note that this is different from the Entrepreneur’s Transfer).
Advertise: Influence what abilities will be auctioned off in the marketplace the following Night. Described in Section IV.
Share: Select a single ability you possess; you may distribute some or all of your shots of this ability as you desire amongst your teammates for $51. This takes effect immediately, and they may use received shots this same Night.

Mafia Knowledge (FP): The Mafia (Left Hand) team is Guille2015, Phillammon, and MagnaofIllusion. You all received the same Role PM.

Mafia Communication (FP): You may speak with your partners in the Quicktopic here at any time.

Insider Information (FP): You know that there is another Mafia team, and that you win with them. You know that the town is not mountainous; there are town members who are not Entrepreneurs.

There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch: You do not possess a factional Night-kill. In order to kill, you must win the Night-kill auction.

Pulled Strings (FP, 1-shot): Once during the game, one member of your team may choose an ability that has not yet won an Advertising. It will win the current or next Advertising round, regardless of any money spent on other abilities. Advertising is described in Section IV.

Fakeclaim (P): The Entrepreneur Role PM is posted in the thread. If you give me specific game mechanics, I will write the relevant PM for you incorporating those elements with proper flavor and styling.

You win with the Mafia: You win when all the players alive have the Mafia win condition, and there is at least one player alive.

The free market is fine, but it’s so...inefficient. A shame, really, but from that insight you quickly realized that with the help of a few others who shared your views that this is a turning point, a time of opportunity. Control of the marketplace can lead to all of your dreams coming true; given such a reward, it’s obvious that you’ll do anything to eliminate the competition -- permanently.

You are a Mafia (Right Hand) Member.

Nest Egg: You start the game with $150.
Wage: At the end of every Day, you will receive $100.
Efficiency Bonus: You do not receive an efficiency bonus.
Mafia Bonus: At the end of every Day, $100 is split evenly amongst the living members of your team (any fractions are lost).

Money (P): Each Night, you may spend any or all of your money on the following activities:
Bid: Bid on abilities being auctioned off in the marketplace. Described in Section III.
Invest: The following Night, you will receive 140% (round down) of what you invested (note that this is different from the Entrepreneur’s investment rate).
Transfer: Choose another player. If that player is on your team, they will immediately receive 95% (round down) of what you transferred. Otherwise, they will receive it the following Night (note that this is different from the Entrepreneur’s Transfer).
Advertise: Influence what abilities will be auctioned off in the marketplace the following Night. Described in Section IV.
Share: Select a single ability you possess; you may distribute some or all of your shots of this ability as you desire amongst your teammates for $51. This takes effect immediately, and they may use received shots this same Night.

Mafia Knowledge (FP): The Mafia (Right Hand) team is GreyICE, Pitty, and Seanald. You all received the same Role PM.

Mafia Communication (FP): You may speak with your partners in the Quicktopic here at any time.

Insider Information (FP): You know that there is another Mafia team, and that you win with them. You know that the town is not mountainous; there are town members who are not Entrepreneurs.

There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch: You do not possess a factional Night-kill. In order to kill, you must win the Night-kill auction.

Lockout (FP, 1-shot): Once during the game, one member of your team may choose a current auction. The auction will act as normal, but at the end of the Night it will be announced that no one has won the auction, and that the auction will re-occur during the next Night. All money bid on the auction will be refunded.

Fakeclaim (P): The Entrepreneur Role PM is posted in the thread. If you give me specific game mechanics, I will write the relevant PM for you incorporating those elements with proper flavor and styling.

You win with the Mafia: You win when all the players alive have the Mafia win condition, and there is at least one player alive.

You are a Mafia (Left Hand) Member, along with your partners [Partner names go here].

Nest Egg: You start the game with [Some amount >100].
Wage: At the end of every Day, you will receive [Given no time bonus, some value >50].
Mafia Bonus: At the end of every Day, [Some fixed amount probably, 25?].

I assume these numbers are all likely the same or very similar to the last game.

Insider Dealings: Any money you spend bidding on auctions that are listed in red is [Probably only half used or partially refunded]

This is the one I was most worried about. I assume money they spend on red auctions has a multiplier factor or that they won ties no matter what...I dunno. I don't think they have an insurmountable advantage, though.

Dirty Tricks ($$$): You have a number of dirty tricks at your disposal. Each Night, each member of your team may perform one of these (if desired); however, each Dirty Trick may only be performed once per Night. The first Dirty Trick is free; each subsequent use [some signifigant but not impossible amount]. Dirty Tricks are not treated as targeted abilities; they cannot be roleblocked, and will not appear on Tracker or Watcher reports.
•Wire Fraud: Name two players, a transferer and a transferee. Any money that the transferer would transfer to the transferee during this Night [are blocked and or given to you instead].
•Lockout: Name a target player and a current auction. Any bid made by the targeted player for that auction [will not count as a bid?].
•Countermeasures: Name a target player, a targeted ability name, and a target. If that player attempts to use that ability on that target during this same Night, [that action will fail and they will lose that action].

We're in agreement on Wire Fraud.
I think the text on Lockout is "will not count towards the auction and be drained from that player's account." However, note the Right Hand's role PM in the last game...
I think countermeasures is closer to roleblock+steal ability. All three of these abilities are there for the sake of punishing town coordination in the open--if I'd not been dumb and actually read how the second game went down pre-game, I would have put a lot more emphasis on neighborizer(my initial plan was to try to get as many hydras in a neighborhood as possible). Thankfully, Peregrine is like, town and half, so it's fine(game might actually be over if Peregrine is scum anyways).

Shell Game ($$$): At any point during the Night, you may [choose?] to transfer some or all usages of one of your abilities amongst your team as desired. They may be used by the recipients that same Night.

This appears to be a buffed version of the power from the last game. Likely has a small cost.

•Transfer: Choose another player. If that player is on your team, [there is no cost to transfer money to them]. Otherwise, [same as town role pm?, 80% goes to them probs].

They get 95% and non-teammates play by normal rules.

The other half of the setup speculation dance, no less town than Cabd's side.

LOADS E MONAY

VOTE: Klick

This post just felt town.

[Garuda]

I think that sort of heartfelt read-documentation and selling may work better when the player is personally not on entirely solid ground. It turns the effort into something more selfless and altruistic and for-the-sake-of-town, when it could otherwise look like (and be) an effort at consolidating power.

I have to admit that a small part of this is to impress Empire and prove that I'm a better hydra partner than Tammtrum

Still leaning scum. I guess my interaction is toned down because I sobered up? >_> Or maybe I'm just in evaluation mode as arguing accomplished absolutely nothing.

What do you think of them having paranoia of you and then putting you in their top 6 townreads? Also what did you think of my post on them?

[morph the cat]

Morph - why are we in your top 6 town reads and garuda isn't when nacho is part of the reason you were town reading us?

I guess this is a similar question that keeps rearing it's head to us.

It appears that you are at least to some extent going along with the attempted gamebreaking plan of your biggest scumread. If so, why?

[Pyrotechnics]

You're voting him.

Okay, so why are you suggesting that you and Nero are on the same team?

You're voting him because he's scum. If your not, why are you voting him?

You're calling me scum (stating my "team" could have gotten both NK and neighborizer), but not voting me.

Your conjecturing, but if you conjecture we are both scum, then you either think we are on the same team or opposing teams.

If you have enough information to reach the conclusion that we are both scum, then you should also have reached a conclusion that we are on the same or opposing teams.

So either you don't believe what you are saying, or your making shit up. Which is it?

this is a bad argument. town conjecture about things all the time. i'm surprised this is getting blown to the proportion that it is.

[Pyrotechnics]

I think that sort of heartfelt read-documentation and selling may work better when the player is personally not on entirely solid ground. It turns the effort into something more selfless and altruistic and for-the-sake-of-town, when it could otherwise look like (and be) an effort at consolidating power.

I have to admit that a small part of this is to impress Empire and prove that I'm a better hydra partner than Tammtrum

Am I that bad a hydra partner?

Still leaning scum. I guess my interaction is toned down because I sobered up? >_> Or maybe I'm just in evaluation mode as arguing accomplished absolutely nothing.

What do you think of them having paranoia of you and then putting you in their top 6 townreads? Also what did you think of my post on them?

I saw you posted it but didn't read it. I read your town read of us though (because I'm self-absorbed) and it was a thing of beauty!

[Garuda]

Unvote
Vote: VoidedMafia

Nacho knows why.

Can you tell me a story please? A story about how making a vote only one person will understand is a good idea.

I liked N's reaction to this.

hey nacho you scumfuck are you still here?

I missed this reachout before, but I like it now that I see it.

Ughbluh.

I'm really not okay with the people who have been posting a crapton. It's a great way for scum to
- look town in the early game,
- blow up the thread into 26 pages after what, 24 hours, so that people like me who can't be on all day fall behind and lurk, which makes them prime scum targets, and
- decrease the signal:noise ratio.

I've had a stern word with N, and I'm definitely got my eye on Lost Butterfly, morph the cat, and Pyrotechnics.

This was incredibly town. The hydra partner who is less comfortable with being scum ends up coming into the thread and launches an attack on LB, morph, and pyro (while N is still trolling/reaching out to me). It seems incredibly incredibly unlikely that anyone who isn't incredibly comfortable with their scum game would attack some of the highest hanging fruit in the game so blatantly.

I'm conflicted on Lost Butterfly, because a lot of what Mina has done seems scummy to me (that awful first post about getting investigation immunity, html tags, argument with Pyrotechnics) and a lot of what Faraday has done seems much better. But I've never played with Mina and I can't read Faraday since Gay Mafia II and, I think, Mafiastuck.

I liked this attack too!

I liked the way N pushed Hermy. He was very loud and "let's lynch the fuck out of this" in a way that I think he'd avoid as scum.

Tammy, you've been taking small digs at everyone including me all game. I'm glad I got you to finally take a stance, but it just really doesn't feel genuine. Where was I "trying to distract the conversation between morph and I regarding town working together"? That's not even something you actually care about, seeing as you're calling morph scum now.

Everyone's scum but you, Tammy.

I'm not even sure what you were trying to do with the Neighborizer thing. You had no end goal. It was just something for you to do to look busy yesterday and now that didn't work out for you you're trying to sweep it under the rug.

Ended up liking this too. It felt like a very genuine attack, as did Quil's immediately before this one.

Please don't fuck up quite possibly the only time we will be town together ever.

Please don't treat me like I'm stupid. This is the only thing you've said to me all game; that doesn't sit well.

I ended up liking this a lot! This is the point where N made a more obvious upgrading on the troll scumread on me to an actual scumread, which I think is something he's far less likely to do as scum because either he thinks I'm scum and we're probably gonna roll shit together or he thinks I'm town in which case I can't see him going "talk to me! talk to me!" since Nscum doesn't mind being ignored at all.

[Pyrotechnics]

Morph - why are we in your top 6 town reads and garuda isn't when nacho is part of the reason you were town reading us?

I guess this is a similar question that keeps rearing it's head to us.

It appears that you are at least to some extent going along with the attempted gamebreaking plan of your biggest scumread. If so, why?

Regardless of your alignment, your plan is a protown plan. You could be doing it because you're town or you could be doing it because you're scum trying to stay in the town's top town reads and therefore reap the benefits. We wouldn't transfer money to you at this point, but the plan itself is sound and running along the last game's game plan.

You also have no idea how much time Syry and I have spent trying to figure out your alignment and make sure we're not just confirmbiasing at this point. Right now, we're just kind of in observation mode and waiting to see what the next day brings and how it impacts our reads.

[Garuda]

I saw you posted it but didn't read it.

[Pyrotechnics]

I saw you posted it but didn't read it.

Dude I'm on page 65. I'll get to it eventually.

Also, you insulted my skills as a hydra partner.

[Garuda]

I totally didn't! I implied that I was hauling ass to live up to the standard you set and you respond to that by not reading my fucking awesome wall. It's like you ripped my heart out of my chest and threw it on the ground

[Sir Waffles Wafflington]

<3

I read your totally awesome wall on meeeeeeeeee though, which is let's face it way more important!

Also, I'll read it tonight; I'm just not there yet.

[Pyrotechnics]

<3

I read your totally awesome wall on meeeeeeeeee though, which is let's face it way more important!

Also, I'll read it tonight; I'm just not there yet.

And again.

[Pyrotechnics]

Actually, Voided why did you choose to advertise and then go for the extra voter? Last game you went after doctor the first night.

[morph the cat]

Morph - why are we in your top 6 town reads and garuda isn't when nacho is part of the reason you were town reading us?

I guess this is a similar question that keeps rearing it's head to us.

It appears that you are at least to some extent going along with the attempted gamebreaking plan of your biggest scumread. If so, why?

Regardless of your alignment, your plan is a protown plan. You could be doing it because you're town or you could be doing it because you're scum trying to stay in the town's top town reads and therefore reap the benefits. We wouldn't transfer money to you at this point, but the plan itself is sound and running along the last game's game plan.

You also have no idea how much time Syry and I have spent trying to figure out your alignment and make sure we're not just confirmbiasing at this point. Right now, we're just kind of in observation mode and waiting to see what the next day brings and how it impacts our reads.

Heh. I suspect Cabd and I have chewed up a similar number of bytes discussing you guys. Well, Syr mostly, because even after our disconnect in Rapture (which was mostly driven by my tentative play, something that is not an issue in this game), I feel like he's been involved in many of the game events that have shaped my current approach to townbloc-building because most of those events happened in Rift games. This game's outcome will probably shape my approach even further, for good or ill.

Observation mode is pretty much where we are at, and that should be pretty obvious to Syr. We want to let you set the pace of interactions.

For now, we'll leave it up to you to define if, how and how much you want our cooperation. And we'll figure out if, how and how much we're willing to accommodate what you come up with.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

I wanted to wait until I had discussed things with Quilford before posting, but he's been pretty busy lately. I'll be honest: I don't think I completely understand morph's plan. Everyone makes a list of their top townreads and then everyone else transfers to those people? And there's no way of checking whether scum is following the plan?

I mean, I don't think there's any scum motivation behind morph suggesting it and I personally think they're probably town. But it just seems fruitless.

[Pyrotechnics]

The strongest reason for Peregrine being town is probably snagging Neighborizer Night 0 for $100, and the way that situation that came about. Regardless of what scumteam he was with, if Peregrine put down a $100 bid on something that would be that effective for scum and just sort of got it, I think scum would keep that on the down low and not let him claim it. But just in case it was just a bid that looked town enough where the scumteam decided he should probably claim it, the really good parts are the followup based on him attacking people based on the scumminess of their advertisements. And when he conflicts with Muffin about this specific scenario, he immediately and smoothly turns to attacking the fuck out of Muffin based on that logic, which seemed extremely town to me. Peregrine is generally a pretty lurky guy in general, and as scum he exploits that and stays under the radar, so I can't imagine Peregrine-scum coasting on a good amount of towncred buckling down to attack Muffin, of all people.

Very likely town.

I do think that his push on muffin looks town for pere, but do you really think this about the neighborizer now? Everyone has assumed he's town partially because he claimed neighborizer, and he's admitted to neighborizing someone but no one has pushed him for who. So, do you really think the claiming neighborizer was something risky for scum to do because it would have been written off as town no matter what.