Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[Seanald]

I feel it is important to repost this over and over.

THE PLAN: READ IT

If your name is:

Lost Butterfly
morph
Pyro
Pie
Peregrine
upside down

then tonight you sit down and get money. Bid as you see fit, advertise items not in the five you want to see avaialble, play strategically.

If your name is not on that list and you are town:

Advertise 5 dollars each on these items:
Cop
Doctor
Watcher
Wage Freeze
Tracker

Then roll a 6 sided dice. Keep your roll a secret from any neighbor you might have.
If it is a 1, send all your remaining money to Lost Butterfly
If it is a 2, send all your remaining money to Morph the Cat
If it is a 3, send all your remaining money to Pyrotechnics
If it is a 4, send all your remaining money to Pieguyn
If it is a 5, send all your remaining money to PeregrineV
If it is a 6, send all your remaining money to Upside Down

If you don't have physical dice laying around, then you can roll virtual dice here: http://www.random.org/dice/

NOTE: This process will work best if it works randomly. Please don't pick your personal favorite out of of the Top Townie list. Roll the dice and do what the Goddess of Chaos bids.

[Seanald]

actually I will suggest this

@Mod can we add an event to page 1 under the events tab, that links to "The Plan" for easy referencing, or is that out of our hands?

[morph the cat]

Hey, Morph:

Also, are abilities like doctor and neighborizer being advertised in advance of the next cycle of auctions?

clearance, plz?

Voided, who do you think we should flashwagon?

I told Cabd that I think it kinda does make sense if you view it as a rebuke to the emerging consensus.

If that's the case, though, what does it accomplish, if anything? I don't have much fault with how he got his reads (though I do feel like the mhork read should be sifted a little bit better in light of my (and someone else's who I can't recall) notes on how he seems to be townreading his defenders), and the action does strike me as being on the town side of things, but doing something to go "yeah, well, here's MY reads that aren't like yours!" doesn't strike me as a profitable move at all.

Sometimes the profit in being a dissenting voice is simply that you give others pause, and they rethink a few things, whether their conclusions change or not.

BUT ISN'T MY KITTEN ADORABLE???

Syryana's?

Yes he is!

He's cuter (and less weird) than yours.

True.

THE PLAN: READ IT

Under the assumption that I'm getting lynched today (if only for efficiency, as Hara's so succinctly put it <_<), would you like me to do this in advance?

If it comes to that.

But who you think we should lynch and why is of great interest.

[morph the cat]

I wanted to wait until I had discussed things with Quilford before posting, but he's been pretty busy lately. I'll be honest: I don't think I completely understand morph's plan. Everyone makes a list of their top townreads and then everyone else transfers to those people? And there's no way of checking whether scum is following the plan?

I mean, I don't think there's any scum motivation behind morph suggesting it and I personally think they're probably town. But it just seems fruitless.

The plan doesn't ensure the kind of accountability that was possible in the earlier game designs, but it does limit the ability of scum to interfere with the transfers.

What the plan does do, though, is concentrate town funds so that they can be spent more effectively on abilities, and put a burden on scum advertisement costs that would be difficult for town players to do individually.

[zMuffinMan]

@morph,

Spoiler:

this felt very much like a newb's reaction to their first large theme game.

i've literally never seen another player say, "omg, there are more than 3 scum!" in a game this size. that looked about as fake as fake could be. i started changing my mind about him after seeing how bafflingly stupid some other things he was saying were, the culmination of this being him offering to advertise governor. i decided it's probably more likely that he really is that naive rather than scum playing dumb. *shrug*

He's accosting other players to state opinions on this group of three players and it's like the whole game is being viewed through this lens and other players sorted based on their opinions about this triumvirate.

i like using this method, it works for me in the early stages of a game. i dunno why you think it's a bad thing.

The main thing that jumped out here was the defense of ProHawk, which was on the basis of his agreeing with zmuffin about...the triumvirate.

prohawk had like <10 posts at that point iirc. i was reading his content at the time as more townish than scummy, and didn't really understand why he was being read as scum. it wasn't a defense so much as me saying, "i liked those posts, why are you reading them differently?"

He's liking zdenek for much the same reasons. This firms up to a town read later.

nah, me liking zdenek had nothing to do with his reads or thoughts on the game (although i did like that he saw what i was seeing with voided's read on LB). his approach to the game and the tone of his posts just read town.

Mild defense of Mhork. "finding his feet". This struck me as interesting given his lack of sympathy for baldeagle.

i "lacked sympathy" for baldeagle because i thought he was pretending to be retardedly oblivious to the setup and the way it works. mhork was finding his feet in terms of reads.

In 623 he says he didn't like bmolla's ISO but there's nothing concrete. Based on context, it was apparently these next two posts that were the tipping point.

um. iirc the read on BB was to do with feeling like he was just coasting and trying to remain invisible. but yeah, i liked his #640 and the answers to the question i asked after that. i dunno. it felt honest. since then, he's gone back to being a background figure.

This post has a slight flavor of coaching, somehow. Could be my bias about Klick, though.

But, the apparent flip-flop was due to prohawk calling hermy obvtown after not defending her more vociferously on late day 1.

correct

This bugs me because IME it's pretty common of Nero.

what's pretty common of nero? i have limited experience with town-nero but i've never seen him play like he's played here. he's been more aggressive and opinionated in games i've seen of him.

I thought that Nacho was emulating/having fun with one of my habits as a hydra of putting down a vote long after I first telegraph the concern by indicating that there has been en hydra discussion resulting in the vote - finally

ok. i don't get your in-jokes, then.

[zMuffinMan]

ill switch to voided soon, prob

[JacobSavage]

Hi, replacing.

Can someone walk me though the plan quickly?

[JacobSavage]

Will read up today

[zMuffinMan]

Can someone walk me though the plan quickly?

look up

[JacobSavage]

I can read it, but can you explain the logic behind it

[morph the cat]

Do these posts help?

So I think adding randomness sufficiently allows us to still break the game even at 80% transfer rate. I'd like feedback on this plan from players that played the first two games, and anyone who enjoys mechanics breaking (hi nati)


So basically, you take the 6 most accepted globally townreads. Assign them each a number 1 to 6. Each player in the null/scum piles rolls their own D6 overnight. Those that roll an even number on their first roll transfer money. Those that roll an odd number use their money to advertise things that are assigned to town to advertise, as an even spread. Those that rolled to transfer money then roll a second D6, and the number they roll is who they transfer money to.



So let's take the example of town agreeing to advertise abilities A thru E tonight. I'm in the null pile but town, so I follow along. I roll my first D6 and roll an odd number. I have 50 dollars. I then advertise 10 dollars each on A thru E.

Let's say I had drawn evens instead on my first roll. I go and look at the globally created townlist, and roll to decide who I send my money to. I then send my entire amount.

So long as town all follows this plan, the scum players won't be disruptive enough to entirely over-ride it, nor will their countermeasures be able to predict who exactly is doing what. Additionally, even if they kill from within the six, there's still money and power in the other five.

To Do List for Town before Lynching

A: Determine the core 6 players we want as designated money/ability recipients (nominate 6 players other than yourself please)
B: Determine what abilities we want advertised tonight
C: Powerfuck a scum PM into the dead thread asap once A and B

Unless I'm misunderstanding your plan Morph I don't see how we can hold people accountable?

I don't think we have to. So long as all the town players follow along it still works out even if scum doesn't follow along. I think.

So basically, you take the 6 most accepted globally townreads. Assign them each a number 1 to 6. Each player in the null/scum piles rolls their own D6 overnight. Those that roll an even number on their first roll transfer money. Those that roll an odd number use their money to advertise things that are assigned to town to advertise, as an even spread. Those that rolled to transfer money then roll a second D6, and the number they roll is who they transfer money to.

My major concern with your plan is that there's too much money going towards advertising. We can reasonably spend like $20 on what we want to appear the next day and it will appear, and even IF the scum decide to spend major money getting what they want to appear the next night, this accomplishes holding off our powers one more night, which doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. Rolling the d6 to determine who they send money to in the 6 man town block seems to be the best plan to me while designating one or two or maybe even three other scummy people to advertising things.

That sounds fairly easy to tweak.

Would it make sense to assign advertising duties and then have everyone, including the advertisers randomly funnel money to the consensus 6 trusted townies?

[zMuffinMan]

the basic idea is

funnel money into a town bloc
win night game

if you're reading the game anyway, you'll see it discussed a bit

[JacobSavage]

Awesome I can follow that til the cows come home.

[1baldeagle1]

THE PLAN: READ IT

If your name is:

Lost Butterfly
morph
Pyro
Pie
Peregrine
upside down

then tonight you sit down and get money. Bid as you see fit, advertise items not in the five you want to see avaialble, play strategically.

If your name is not on that list and you are town:

Advertise 5 dollars each on these items:
Cop
Doctor
Watcher
Wage Freeze
Tracker

Then roll a 6 sided dice. Keep your roll a secret from any neighbor you might have.
If it is a 1, send all your remaining money to Lost Butterfly
If it is a 2, send all your remaining money to Morph the Cat
If it is a 3, send all your remaining money to Pyrotechnics
If it is a 4, send all your remaining money to Pieguyn
If it is a 5, send all your remaining money to PeregrineV
If it is a 6, send all your remaining money to Upside Down

If you don't have physical dice laying around, then you can roll virtual dice here: http://www.random.org/dice/

NOTE: This process will work best if it works randomly. Please don't pick your personal favorite out of of the Top Townie list. Roll the dice and do what the Goddess of Chaos bids.

This is pretty awesome. I like this.

Should we hurry up and speedlynch so we can get even more money to send to the townreads?

[Magua]

@Mod can we add an event to page 1 under the events tab, that links to "The Plan" for easy referencing, or is that out of our hands?

We apologize, but events are not added at player request. Thank you for choosing MaguaCo!

[Harakiri]

Should we hurry up and speedlynch so we can get even more money to send to the townreads?

Step ahead of ya.

[Nero Cain]

vote:Hermy

This. Easiest move for scum to pull when they're getting a free lynch is to quietly shuffle on the wagon which is pretty much exactly what Nero did here.

Deadline was in a few hours. Do you think a day 1 no lynch was the optimal town play here?

The fact that he's saying that you DID imply I was lurking scum but fence sitting on the issue and saying that you were also just pointing it out [that I posted after you voted me.]

i honestly don't even think mhork realises that was what he was implying (i think he was just making an observation), but it doesn't change that nothing he said was factually incorrect, so you overreacting and calling him lying scum makes no sense.

Sooooooo.....Mhork calls me lurking scum. You call me stupid for thinking that now Mhork didn't realize what he was saying?

We'll have to agree to disagree 'cause both of us think we are right. I really don't think Mhork was making an observation here and I don't know how I'm "overreacting".

PV also made some good points

about him.

all that said, i'm interested in which "good points" PV made you agree with. do you agree that seanald is scum purely for advertising austerity measures? because me disagreeing with that is the foundation for PV thinking i'm scum.

Sorry. I forgot that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. This says nothing about Sean, like at all. I think PV's point about you singling me out for advertising love potion and vote freezer but ignoring Sean was p good.

@ Bald, you really think

Morph

Mhork would imply that I'm lurking scum then say that he didn't...as town?

Lurking isn't a scumtell for me.

Atm, I'm not sure what to make of you. Some posts I don't like, and some I do.

This says nothing about you lurking.....

Try again please.

H/o may have found Tammy scum.

Changed my mind on Nero and n being scum though. Nero started yelling at people, which I like for his alignment. Last time I saw him as scum he was much more apologetic to me about being disengaged and kept promising me a yelling post he never made. I originally didn't like the whiny tone, but he started looking better. The only pause I have is that this is multiball, and I'll have to check back. I think I remember him being scum in dn does Star Wars and he was capable of doing his yelling thing there. And n had a few posts I think are less likely to come from scum.

Hehehe... You're funny, Nero. Do you always flip out or just as scum?

I'm not flipping out just calling you on your shit.

Why aren't you yelling at people Nero?

You are clearly not reading. Why are you not reading?

You getting into an inane argument with lord mhork

is not what I consider the Nero Cain yelling at people

as you burn through the thread and Scumhunt. This is a bit of a start, but it wasn't there before.

[Nero Cain]

Also was not a big fan of Empcho's DP vote. There's not enough support for him today so its a wasted vote but then again I'm voting for scum Mhork and that not going through today either.

@Morph-What do you think of

I felt like the reasoning used "oh you didn't use the word obv-town yesterday" was twisting.

that had nothing to do with why anyone thinks/thought prohawk is scum.

Despite that being the sole reason a wagon popped up Pro-hawk.

That comes from

TOWN

Muffin?

[Nero Cain]

vote:Voided

[morph the cat]

I thought that Nacho was emulating/having fun with one of my habits as a hydra of putting down a vote long after I first telegraph the concern by indicating that there has been en hydra discussion resulting in the vote - finally

ok. i don't get your in-jokes, then.[/spoiler]

I don't know that in-joke is the word for it.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?k ... mit=Search

I'm a creature of habit, I guess. And hence trollable.

[morph the cat]

what's pretty common of nero? i have limited experience with town-nero but i've never seen him play like he's played here. he's been more aggressive and opinionated in games i've seen of him.

dribble

drivel*

What's Nero done?

this is actually the point. what

has

Nero done?

he's obviously following the thread, at least well enough that he can comment on minor things here and there sprinkled throughout the thread,

yet he's managed to avoid commenting on every major event, and avoid mentioning most of the people who are playing this game. not only that, but when you look at the reasons for the few reads he's actually given, they're pretty fucking shit.

nero's being a non-presence in this game. nothing to do with his post count and everything to do with him coasting on little content.

the argument he had with mhork is just the icing on the cake, here, and i don't know how people think Nero came out looking better from that. did any of you actually look at Nero's argument there?

the only good thing i can see in nero's iso is a voided vote, but i'm having second thoughts about voided atm so i'm not even sure that's a good thing.

This bugs me because IME it's pretty common of Nero. I think I usually wind up concluding that Nero and I are playing the same game in alternate universes. I have only town-nero experience in completed games, but from the metadives I did for other games, his town games come off much more strongly srsbzns than the scum game or two that I read during AMoL. This game doesn't feel like his scum games. But, it feels like a very mechanical version of his town games. IOW I think this is not the right reason for having a problem with Nero atm.[/spoiler]

I was focused mostly on the bolded. I usually find that where Nero focuses his attention in a game seems counter to what I'm personally finding significant, and his reads and my reads often don't line up well. Hence my "alternate universe" feel about our play. So, like I said, although there are things about Nero's game so far that bother me, what you described isn't really the problem I have.

Though I think you did kinda hit it in your reply to this. His play feels a little mechanical and low-energy, like he's going through the motions of his town game.

[Voidedmafia]

But who you think we should lynch and why is of great interest.

Who I WANT lynched is Baldeagle, but that's not going to happen today.

In light of that, Nero or upside down.

Also, I have to go to class in about 5 minutes, so give me about an hour and a half to get through that and if you all are still bent on lynching me I can do the adverts and transfers during my break.

[morph the cat]

Also was not a big fan of Empcho's DP vote. There's not enough support for him today so its a wasted vote but then again I'm voting for scum Mhork and that not going through today either.

@Morph-What do you think of

I felt like the reasoning used "oh you didn't use the word obv-town yesterday" was twisting.

that had nothing to do with why anyone thinks/thought prohawk is scum.

Despite that being the sole reason a wagon popped up Pro-hawk.

That comes from

TOWN

Muffin?

I don't think that's the reason, though. It didn't matter whether ProHawk used the term "obvtown" on day 1. It was more a question of whether his reaction to that wagon looked like the reaction you would have to the wagon of someone you thought was obvotwn, i.e., did he make a huge effort to dismantle the wagon.

IMO ProHawk's reaction looked like the sort of reaction I have when I have a sinking feeling that the person being wagoned is going to be a mislynch, not when I feel certain it's a mislynch.

[morph the cat]

UNVOTE: Voided

We should have done this last night.

@Nacho-garuda,

Please either make a real case for Dr Pepper being scum and the best lynch today, or make a case for someone else. You've been mildly discouraging the Voided lynch for days, but not really doing anything that is going to dismantle his wagon. The beautiful town-cases are beautiful but they aren't really helping move the game forward.

[Lord Mhork]

P-p-p-p-prod dodge!

There's a lot of really complicated metatheorizing here and it's all way over my head...

I'm also just saying now that there's approximately 0% chance I'll switch to voided