Micro 242: Les Miserables Mafia (Game Over)

[Ghostlin]

Alright. Here's a visual for you:

I have a certain number of levers in front of me and they're labelled different things:

Lever the first: Mhork. I hate to fucking admit it, but Mastin has a point. At the same time, he's kind of ignoring the other prong of that point to hang Mhork. And Mhork's beginning to make a lot of fucking sense. I didn't like Day 1, but Day 2 is making sense. I think he and Mastin are in the kind of death tunnel that we'll have to lynch one or the other of them, but I'm not 100% it's Mhork.

Also, a letter writer and a fruit vendor in the same game? WTF?

Lever the second: Mastin. Three things bug me about Mastin, in retrospect.
1) He flattered me from the word go. I'm kind of a fucking prickly player on purpose and one part of that is to repel flattery; also I think he way over estimates me.
2) There's two holes in his claim. First, If he believed I was scum, then why block me? Think real hard: I went out of Day 1 with almost no one convinced of my innocence, except possibly Mastin. Here's the pisser:

I don't think it's likely I could of executed a kill last night even if scum.

Either he thinks I'm better than I am, or he's never read my fucking scum game. Clearing me would perhaps have a townie who believed in him decrying his innocence; also, there's virtually no opportunity cost, as a bodyguard, my role is practically the definition of disposable. He could shut me down pretty harmlessly and look protown doing it.
Second, his entire push this day against Mhork...most of it is setup speculation. TRUE setup speculation, but setup speculation nonetheless. Also, he ignores a fucking important detail DURING the setup speculation to solely push a case on Mhork, which is dishonesty by omission. I think he's picking for endgame already, and I think he wants Mhork gone before then, and it'd be better in an either/or mislynch (which is also a point against Mhork as well).

The last lever is BV. Here's why: neighborizer can be a scum role. It's very much to scum's advantage to get a Town player on his side, and BV's play by the idea of Occam's fucking Razor hasn't been the strongest. It would behoove him to draft a strong player with a light amount of suspicion to be his advocate. Hence, Mhork. Also, a very powerful scum role that could of fucked Town hard flipped.

Here's the setup as I see it if that was true:
Mhork (mailman)
Elle (fruit vendor)
Mastin (jailkeeper, can also fuck with any of town's abilities along with scum)
GG: Follower
Mala: (????. I actually have a bunch of ideas about this, but I like the WIFOM she's created so I'm not going to share my thoughts)
Shos: Tracker

BV: Scum neighborizer
Funk: Scum redirector (there's a lot of ways this coulda got ugly)

I find myself in need of information. FUCK. Oh, I'm dumb.

Grim, I want you to ask the mod (yes, you're going to have to be the one to do it) what the result would be if you were blocked versus your target going nowhere.

It just hit me, looking over the roleclaims. I don't want to say more, but this is a 1v1.

[Ghostlin]

I've looked at MHork's interactions with funkytown, and I'm suddenly very inclined to vote him.

Take a look yourself.

Oh wow

VOTE: funkybike1

Pointing out that you're backpedaling doesn't make it any less sketch. You put me at L-1 on page one; you don't just drop it when someone points out what you did. In addition the fact you you seem to not have noticed the logical disconnect between your not liking putting someone at L-2 in the first page and putting me there with 5 posts of that. You don't even provide real rationale for jumping on me, implying that you're just bullshitting opinions.

Odds are you're probably town because very few scum are that dense, but it's definitely something worth pushing.

What exactly is your opinion of early game wagons?

That sentence always rang weird to me, and a scum-bus could fit with this. Provide a real argument as to funky-scum,b ut for some reason take the heat off and leave the door open to get off that wagon.

What's Morton's fork?

VOTE: shos

Don't worry, funky. I haven't forgotten you.

He votes shos for the townread shos gave to funky. In a way this can still be considered a bus to funky, but Mhork chooses another wagon. This is illogical: Mhork claims to think funky is scum. shos thought funky was town at that point. Mhork moves his vote away from funky and moves it to shos. It seems to fit, but it really is rather awkward if you think about it.

Funky,

why are you scum?

if you aren't scum, who is?

It feels like a pretty blanket statement with little engagement, and very few additional arguments. It feels as if MHork doesn't need a lot of arguments to call funky scum, apart from what he said right after RVS.
I think a typical thing for scum bussing scum, is that they call eachother scum but don't really bother with formulating arguments. Psychologically this is understandable, since for scum it oes without saying their buddy is scum.

Oh yay Grim is prolly town woohoo!

Scum is somewhere in Mae/Krazy/Shos. GG.

He forgot funkytown here. Despite having called him obvscum plenty of times before.

Then what are your thoughts thus far? Who do you think is scum? I mean other than obv scum funky.

Still no additional arguments. and he keeps finding reasons not to vote said obvscum.

Oh Ghostlin is adorable. He's one of those players.

1) I suppose I'll buy that for now. A body guard is a nice, low powered role especially for a Role Madness setup.

UNVOTE: Ghostlin

2) What do you make of the fact that elle and I have been voting together for awhile? You say that it's suspicious, but why exactly is it suspicious? Especially with GG too? We all have mutual town reads on one another last I checked, why wouldn't we vote together?

3) This isn't power tunneling. I've been stuck on Mae for awhile because SHE QUIT POSTING. If you read my posts, you'd see all sorts of angles I've been pursuing. There was Grimgroove. There was shos.

There's still funkybike.

And there's been Mae. How have I been tunneling? How have I been optimistic? Am I not allowed to point out suspicious activity once someone stops posting? Is that a free pass to scummy behavior?

Cosy in the middle.

Elle, bv or funky? I still find funky scum but I really don't like that bv dropped off the radar. What do you think?

Still thinks funky is obvscum, still no additional arguments, and trying to find another reason to vote someone else over funky, in this case bv. Looking for support towards elleheathen.

That was a question directed at you. >.>

Elle, (should we lynch) bv or funky?

The question repeats itself. Despite having had an obscum read on funky for the entire day, he wants to consider the option of a lurker-lynch.

Your death tunneling thing is wrong Ghostlin.

This is a post I made where I explained my reads on people. It's not like I am ignoring anyone. Well except bv but that's mainly because I forgot he existed. I'll admit I got a little distracted, but that was more because I was waiting for Mae before I could move on.

In addition you can note that I have attacked shos. I've attacked funky. I've attacked Mae. I've even semi attacked mastin. The only reason it looks like I'm 'tunneling' is due to the fact that my attacks on her have lasted longer. Which isn't my fault. Again, it stemmed from her not posting. You'll note that I wasn't saying much of anything while I was waiting for Mae. It's not like I've been bullying through anything. I don't even see where you're getting opportunism from.

Now that you mention it, it is odd that bv stopped posting. I admit that's my bad, but I was distracted. Being distracted when pursuing a scum read is hardly a scum tell. It's minor tunneling, but not tunneling to the sheer extent that you have made it out to be.

As for funky, I haven't really pushed him because I think he's scum. He's, like, solidly scum. What is there to be gained pushing there? I've been more interested in sorting out the null/scums.

You're gonna have to refer me back to the shos vote thing because I can't remember what that is.

Your push on me is bad, but at least it's not mastin bad. I'm not saying you're cleared as town by any stretch, but I feel better about you than I felt about Mae.


Elle hurry I can't decide

For now:
VOTE: funkybikeone

Finally the vote. But the thing in bold sounds far from natural.

I've decided. Props on the poem Mhork, but you're scum.

Also, looking at the night actions, it makes sense. Mhork killed Elleheathen and blocked me. He called us town, so he had to neutralize us in another way: during the night.

Also props to mastin. He makes no sense but it seems he was correct about all his reads. Reminiscent of an oracle, talking jibberish but truthful and full of wisdom at the core.

Sorry if I'm running ahead of things, but I really feel I've had an epiphany here.

VOTE: Lord Mhork

No one MOVE until I get my answer. Crap up the thread all you like, but don't you fucking dare try to lynch anyone until I get it.

[Grimgroove]

I already unvoted Mhork again.

To address your immediate question:

Grim, I want you to ask the mod (yes, you're going to have to be the one to do it) what the result would be if you were blocked versus your target going nowhere.

I don't need to ask the mod. My role pm is already quite clear on that, by enumerating the following possible results:

investigative, protective, manipulative, killing, miscellaneous, none, no result

The last two are the answer to your question. If the target hadn't one anywhere, I would have gotten "none".
But I got "no result", meaning I got blocked (because bv310 obviously didn'y).

[Ghostly Penguin]

I already unvoted Mhork again.

To address your immediate question:

Grim, I want you to ask the mod (yes, you're going to have to be the one to do it) what the result would be if you were blocked versus your target going nowhere.

I don't need to ask the mod. My role pm is already quite clear on that, by enumerating the following possible results:

investigative, protective, manipulative, killing, miscellaneous, none, no result

The last two are the answer to your question. If the target hadn't one anywhere, I would have gotten "none".
But I got "no result", meaning I got blocked (because bv310 obviously didn'y).

We lynch Mastin now. Grimgroove tomorrow if Mastin flips Town. (He probably fucking won't.)

Vote: Mastin

[Ghostlin]

I already unvoted Mhork again.

To address your immediate question:

Grim, I want you to ask the mod (yes, you're going to have to be the one to do it) what the result would be if you were blocked versus your target going nowhere.

I don't need to ask the mod. My role pm is already quite clear on that, by enumerating the following possible results:

investigative, protective, manipulative, killing, miscellaneous, none, no result

The last two are the answer to your question. If the target hadn't one anywhere, I would have gotten "none".
But I got "no result", meaning I got blocked (because bv310 obviously didn'y).

We lynch Mastin now. Grimgroove tomorrow if Mastin flips Town. (He probably fucking won't.)

Vote: Mastin

[Ghostlin]

We've all been theorizing about bullshit we forgot one small thing:

With only one claim for RB, it's shit impossible for me AND Grim to be roleblocked.

[Ghostlin]

So either Grim is lying or Mastin's lying about who he targeted. We lynch Mastin today, Grim tomorrow.

GG scum.

[Ghostlin]

And PV's going to get a fucking kick on me voting with our hydra.

[Grimgroove]

There can be a roleblocker on townside and one on scumside, and I wouldn't expect the one on scumside to claim it when he saw the guy on townside already do it.

This is not as convincing an argument as you think it is Ghostlin, think it through :p

Welcome to the mindfuckfest by the way.

[Ghostlin]

There can be a roleblocker on townside and one on scumside, and I wouldn't expect the one on scumside to claim it when he saw the guy on townside already do it.

This is not as convincing an argument as you think it is Ghostlin, think it through :p

Welcome to the mindfuckfest by the way.

Mmm. Occam's Razor: it'd be more likely for Mastin to fuck the claim than it would be for someone to not simply claim RB; either way, the most likely out of the RB candidates are a small list (and we all know, with Mastin's claim, it can't be me).

[mastin2]

I'm not sure if this is town vomiting shit rage, or scum caught for the wrong reasons.

It's scum caught for the wrong reasons. (Rather, caught for reasons he perceives to be wrong. )

[mastin2]

1) He flattered me from the word go. I'm kind of a fucking prickly player on purpose and one part of that is to repel flattery; also I think he way over estimates me.

I had your slot as a townread. Of course I'm going to flatter you. You were an awesome buddy to me before, and I think that you underestimate yourself, rather than me overestimating you.

2) There's two holes in his claim. First, If he believed I was scum, then why block me?

Uh...I thought you were town? And I explained why I protected you. Yes, it was a block. But it was also a protection, and quite bluntly, I thought you were playing well enough to get nightkilled. Beyond your claim itself (which could have drawn a scum nightkill), you were playing solidly as well.

And, yes. I've never bothered reading your scumgame. But your game here is similar to what I know to be your towngame. And, again. You need to stop assuming my read's just from you; it also came from your predecessor.

Second, his entire push this day against Mhork...most of it is setup speculation. TRUE setup speculation, but setup speculation nonetheless.

That's because I made the case against Mhork yesterday. I thought he was scum then. I still think he's scum now.

Also, he ignores a fucking important detail DURING the setup speculation to solely push a case on Mhork, which is dishonesty by omission.

What detail is that? I legitimately have no clue what you're talking about.

I think he's picking for endgame already, and I think he wants Mhork gone before then, and it'd be better in an either/or mislynch (which is also a point against Mhork as well).

What's a scum-Mastin's endgame, Ghostlin? I can't think of any. (Granted, might be because I'm not thinking like scum at all, right now. ) I don't see a possible path for a scum-me to be going down. Get Mhork mislynched, then what? What would I do after that? I don't know. And yes, a scum-me IS a planner, so it wouldn't be winging it; I wouldn't not have a plan and be improvising. But I honestly don't see what a scum-me has to gain from claiming what I have. What's the plan? What's the move to work towards endgame?

[mastin2]

With only one claim for RB, it's shit impossible for me AND Grim to be roleblocked.

Assuming all claims are taken at face value? Yes.

shos could be lying about being a tracker. (I don't think he is.)
Grimgroove could be lying about being a follower that was roleblocked. (I don't think he is.)
Mhork can be lying about his role. (I think he is.)

You, Malakittens, and BV are all conftown, yes. Your claims cannot come from a scum roleblocker. But Mhork's can. shos's could. (But almost certainly doesn't.) And obviously, if Grimgroove were lying about his role, then there's no need for there to even be a scum roleblocker. (Though that very well could be his role anyway. But I don't think Grimgroove is scum.)

[mastin2]

So basically, Ghostlin,
-Setup spec at this point IS pro-town, because we have a chance at a perfect win.
-The setup spec I did doesn't confirm Mhork as scum, but points in his direction.
-Mhork is scum for reasons beyond setup spec, which I've been saying for a while.

[Grimgroove]

shos-Ghostlin is a solid townblock, right?

I'm not excluding Malakittens as a ninja, I'm sorry but I can't. With both a follower and a tracker in the game, a Ninja in the scumteam makes sense. This is not just paranoia. And to be frank, her play has been underwhelming and her push on me pings me.
Mhork, there's the interactions with funky that I noted and that I have a hard time putting out of my mind. The overlap mailman-fruit vendor annoys me.
Mastin, there's his farfetched towncase on Maemuki and his farfetched scumcase on Mhork, both cases requiring stretches of logic and a whole lot of bellygut-stuff.
BV310 is a lurker with a non-alignment indicative ability.
And to top it all of, I realize my own behavior isn't obvtown either, due to me letting funky slip under my radar for too long, and having a night-result that can't be confirmed by anyone.

This provides a reasonable pool of mislynches for scum, and lots of end-game strategies.

This had led me to conclude I don't think I'll be able to reach a conclusion without any doubts.

Let's consider the no-lynch idea.

First, a theoretical question:
If mastin would jailkeep bv310, would bv310 still be able to use the neighbour QT?

If not, here's a possible plan:

We don't lynch, everyone lives to see the night.

mastin jailkeeps bv310. (Mhork can maybe check if this happens: if bv310 posts in the neighborhood, mastin didn't follow the plan and should be lynched. Of course, this requires bv310 to be here in the first place)
Ghostlin protects shos.
Mhork sends a poem to shos.
shos follows Malakittens.
MAlakittens does whatever it is she does to me (so she can be confirmed the next day).
I follow mastin.

shos will be able to tell us more about Mhork regardless of what happens, getting rid of one of the possible mislynches or leading us to the remaining scum.
If scum kills, we'll know it won't have been bv310 as he's been blocked.This removes yet another possible mislynch.
Malakittens visits me. shos will be able to confirm this through his tracking-function, thus clearing Malakittens of being a ninja. If I die, it doesn't clear her, but it does clear bv310, and possibly Mhork if he has sent the poem, leaving the choice between Malakittens and mastin, and with still a possible mislynch for us.
If I don't die, I'll be able to tell you guys what mastin did, regardless of the effects of a jailkeeping on neighborhood-activities.

I think this plan is as watertight as it gets.

Suggestions for improvement are welcome.

But I think we should no-lynch. We can get rid of more possible mislynch-tracks by keeping people alive to see the night and do their thing.

[mastin2]

I'm not excluding Malakittens as a ninja, I'm sorry but I can't.

...

VOTE: Grimgroove.

[Grimgroove]

Oh valiant knight, what have I said that is so unreasonable?

[mastin2]

Basically, I think that Grimgroove just scumslipped hard.

Malakittens could be a ninja, sure.
She can't be a roleblocking-ninja, though.
For her to be a ninja requires her to be scum.
For her to be scum requires me not to be scum.
For me not to be scum requires a scum to have blocked Grimgroove if he's town.
For him to think Malakittens is a ninja, he has to think that she's scum and not a roleblocker.

It shows cognitive dissonance.

[Grimgroove]

She can't be a roleblocking-ninja, though

It's an idea I played with before. I refer to 634.
I grnt you that it's unlikely, but I can't exclude it.

In any case, it's not as if I want her lynched over these doubts. I want to double-check first. Hence, my plan. Have you seen it?

[mastin2]

Have you seen it?

Skimmed it, looked like it didn't work.

[Grimgroove]

Your certainty concerning MHork-scum subsided awfully quick, considering how thin your argument against me really is.
If anyone scumslipped, it's you. No way would town-mastin forget about all convictions surrounding MHork. No way would town-mastin, so proud on the strength of his townreading-skills, cast aside a townread of his over something like this.

[Grimgroove]

Have you seen it?

Skimmed it, looked like it didn't work.

Maybe not everything of the plan will work, but parts of it definitely will, providing results.

But right now, I actually just want to lynch you. That vote on me is terrible.

[Grimgroove]

But first I want others to gve their opinion on my plan.

[Lord Mhork]

It's stupid. Role blocking does not stop the qt and no lynching right now is the exact worst thing town can do.

[mastin2]

Your certainty concerning MHork-scum subsided awfully quick, considering how thin your argument against me really is.
If anyone scumslipped, it's you. No way would town-mastin forget about all convictions surrounding MHork. No way would town-mastin, so proud on the strength of his townreading-skills, cast aside a townread of his over something like this.

I can be wrong. I'm not a scumhunting god. My townread was never strong on you. It was there, yes. But it was never strong. My scumread could be wrong, as much as I had thought it right.

If you're town, why are you so concerned about my switch to you?