Micro 246: Chosen Mafia (N2!)

[Bert]

there's nothing special about this game

Is that a valid reason to coast and just be content going after low-hanging fruit, and posting a few lines here and there that bring really no new ideas into this game? That's how it looks like, and you should be able to see this from our perspective!

How about commenting on how Tammy's catchup posts feel? Or how Nacho's feel? And you know, firming up reads some like you've been saying you'd get to, for, the past oh ALL OF DAY 2!

And if you feel our interactions feel off, now you know how we felt about your "plan."

[Bert]

What's the worst is you just keep coming in here and saying "we could have done a lot with my plan," or "scum's in here and there's nothing new, so I'll default to one of TIP/phok." What if scum's not in there?? Why aren't you seriously considering that these two are lynchbait in most games??

Instead, you come back and go "my wagon feels off (beetlejuice), and two of the three scum are likely in Bert, phok, TIP." That's very convenient.

Random side-note. If Nacho and Tammy are both town, we totally should have done my townbloc idea on D1. Woulda completely decimated the scum, given how half my choices have already flipped town, I have a townread on the third (Tammy), and am trying to figure out the fourth right now.

Oh, and regarding nothing special about this game. Newsflash, we're gonna hit LYLO if town doesn't step it up and lynch correctly!

[mastin2]

How about commenting on how Tammy's catchup posts feel? Or how Nacho's feel?

Town and maybe-town, respectively. (Also, Nacho's an awesome drunk. )

Your posts look like town. But I'm wondering if they're scum-motivated. I know. It's arrogant. It's faulty. But I've got a gut feeling that so many people treating me as if I'm a Chosen means that I actually AM a Chosen. And the push on me would, therefore, be MUCH stronger scum-oriented than normal.

Basically, your posts look town--your motivation...doesn't. Thus, why I have you as maybe-scum.

Phok is obvious. Phok may be "mislynch bait", but that doesn't mean phok's a mislynch. Phok's also been pushing what looks to be a scum agenda (not enough time to explain), the difference being that phok also looks like scum in addition to having a push which feels like scum.

TIP is mostly gut. TIP's early posts looked bad and felt town-motivated despite that, and now kinda are the opposite, looking good and feeling scum-motivated. Ultimately, I'm kinda thinking he may be town, but he could also be scum.

Then there's matt. I have him as town, for the reasons I've stated, but there was a reachout to him which looked like it could have been scum-to-scum. I forget who made the reachout, but its existence was worrisome.

[Bert]

But I've got a gut feeling that so many people treating me as if I'm a Chosen means that I actually AM a Chosen

Please stop that.

You're well-known as a player. You're acting like you're Chosen, but no one knows except the scum if that's true. This is pure Speculation! Heck, the two lynchbait may be Chosen. Did you see how fast that phok wagon went? That's what worried me about Nacho.

So who's the scum team? We need answers now before LYLO, and if you look at my motivation, I said I would be willing to lynch ANY of the non-low-hanging fruits.

What I want is cohesion, quickly, and compromising. The fact that you are reading ALL the strong players as town. That gets me, big time. Then the indifference of "I'm just gonna default to TIP or Phok." How do you think that makes me feel when I come into the thread and see you coasting like this?

You said I was decently town earlier, funny how things work. And my motivation only looks scum when I start pushing for you to go. That's funny. And also, my position is I think the odds of you or Tammy (or even Nacho) flipping scum because of my gut feelings and your play, is better than that of going after lynchbait who always look scummy. Everyone seems to be picking on them, until I changed my stance today.

That's a HUGE red flag. HUGE!

Now, I want you to stop dancing around and COMMIT to a scumread. Stop this defaulting thing please? <3

Love, Bert

[Bert]

Conversely, I think the motivations behind just settling for any of TIP/Phok (or even me) look scum motivated to (or lazy). It goes both ways, my good sir.

[Bert]

Reminder for myself to look at Ffery/Gif's reads and Mara's as well. I've done what I can (sorry for all the spam btw) to jumpstart this game and kick it into gear.

If anyone wants to talk, hey I'll lend an ear <3

[phokdapolees]

How about commenting on how Tammy's catchup posts feel? Or how Nacho's feel?

I know. It's arrogant. It's faulty. But I've got a gut feeling that so many people treating me as if I'm a Chosen means that I actually AM a Chosen.

I'm pretty sure that the majority of this player pool would give you the veto, had you been town.

[projectmatt]

Bert, I don't agree. I think that you're probably town, but you need to slow right down, dude.

I am in complete agreement that the low hanging fruit is being targeted right now. At the same time though, I disagree that a player being an easy target

makes them town.

This is an extremely common misunderstanding and really, my primary reason fo thinking this is that I really have trouble seeing a team in Nacho/Mastin/Tammy/You. I doubt that both are scum. That's far too easy, but I'm really not in belief that both are town at the moment...just because.

With that being said, I actually want TheIrishPope lynched today. Would you do that with me?

[mastin2]

Did you see how fast that phok wagon went?

Yes, I did, and it was concerning to me, too. In fact, if it weren't for the speed of the phok wagon, I'd probably be advocating for phok being scum much more strongly than I am.

You said I was decently town earlier, funny how things work.

Decently town for exactly the reasons I mentioned. Your posting looks town. But I'm wondering if it has a scum-driven motivation behind the literal words. You've said it yourself. In this game, players who're scum are going to be saying townie things because of how good they are. (Or something to that effect.) You applied it to Tammy, Nacho, and myself among others. But it also applies just as much to you. How do I know you're not scum saying townie stuff while pushing a scum wincon? I simply don't.

And my motivation only looks scum when I start pushing for you to go.

Well, yeah. Even if I'm not Chosen, I'm still town. Any wagon on me by definition in this game is going to make me suspicious of it being scum-driven.

Committing to a scumread requires me to actually have a solid scumread. I do not.

[Bert]

That's far too easy

OK, so say Phok or TIP flips town today. What next in LYLO? Please don't tell me lynch the other that's not lynched today, because I will be kinda sad.

How do I know you're not scum saying townie stuff while pushing a scum wincon? I simply don't.

And you are not actively wondering the same things about Tammy and Nacho's posts aloud, why? See, this is the problem I have with your posts so far. You prodded Nacho a bit with a "gambit," and then let go. Where is that effort with Tammy or Matt, or even phok? It feels like you're talking around the two suspects you are going to go for today (TIP, phok), while not addressing them directly and figuring them out that way.

You're the one I'm not as familiar with (1465 and 505 do not count, one you got NKed N1 and I didn't really get to look at your play much, 505 I never got into), as compared to Tammy who I saw maneuver like such in 1489/527/etc., and Nacho who I have been in a dozen games with.

With that being said, I actually want TheIrishPope lynched today. Would you do that with me?

Seeing as TIP is likely gonna dance around and not respond to me before deadline, I may go this route if that's where things go. But I'm not going "YAY I AM SO EXCITED"

Meh.

[Bert]

In this game, players who're scum are going to be saying townie things because of how good they are. (Or something to that effect.) You applied it to Tammy, Nacho, and myself among others. But it also applies just as much to you. How do I know you're not scum saying townie stuff while pushing a scum wincon? I simply don't.

Yes, it does, but I don't feel like the others in the game (including you) are prodding and actively figuring out (a long arduous process) the stronger players in the game. What has been so filled with town motivation about Nacho and Tammy's posts?? Their posts "look town," but how are you sure they're town, and thus going after Phok/TIP as PoE? They are vastly more competent at scum than phok/TIP, I imagine?

You've in essence been relegated to announcing Phok and TIP as scumreads (along with Darger) since the beginning of Day 2, right?

The same goes with the other "stronger" players. And so this game hasn't had that "oh, we're getting somewhere, definitely" factor. Progress. Where's the progress?

[mastin2]

And you are not actively wondering the same things about Tammy and Nacho's posts aloud, why?

You think I haven't?

I

have

. But I can't shake the gut feeling Tammy's town, despite that iiiiiiiiiiiiitsy-bit of paranoia telling me she's scum. I'm not townreading Nacho as much as I want to be for exactly that reason. He COULD be scum, saying townie stuff while pushing that scum wincon, but I also don't feel like that's true. I'm cautious about committing to that. I want to. He's a decently-solid townread. But he's not as town as I want him to be.

Nobody in this game is.

[Bert]

Bert, I don't agree. I think that you're probably town, but you need to slow right down, dude.

I know 1489 was multi-ball, but still at least on D2 of that game, Nacho was being considered as possible scum by Tammy. There was intertwining and some stronger players accusing each other or at least making cases and arguing/discussing pretty in depth. We had that luxury of having hit scum Day 1 (and then 2), so that all the "low hanging fruits or easier mislynches (I hate this phrase but I don't know how else to describe it - I hope I'm not offending anyone =[" went down one-by-one.

We almost lost. And we would have had the scum been, say, Tammy or Empire. Inte got lynched, then Shoe poisoned, then you Matt, Generic poisoned...

Their scum games are good, and good enough to coast (people like, say Tammy or Nacho). I guess this is the game where it's like we're in a corner sort of, except it's LYLO tomorrow and if both phok/TIP are town (as I am as well), then we are toast tomorrow as no one else is likely to be lynched, ever.

Mastin, I know you're known as Professor Mafia or summat, but I hope you can see where I am coming from rather than just call my perspective/motivation possibly scummy. I can say everyone's posts "look town," except their motivation doesn't feel town. I said that about Tammy. You said that about me too, so does that mean I'm a scumread? That's a very minor accusation but nothing more when you call it out.

About a day remaining, you are on the Phok wagon, your vote is still there, you say the fast wagon

concerned you

, and....

Yes, I did, and it was concerning to me, too. In fact, if it weren't for the speed of the phok wagon, I'd probably be advocating for phok being scum much more strongly than I am.

your vote sits for days with no action.

also @matt: I understand that they may very well be scum (TIP or Phok), but I feel like other people are being too dismissive of the more well-known players here who aren't lynchbait. I see several pretty strong rock solid players, but they are just reading each other as town and looking at TIP and Phok.

That is what makes me not sleep well when I think about this game. That's it.

[Bert]

I have. But I can't shake the gut feeling Tammy's town, despite that iiiiiiiiiiiiitsy-bit of paranoia telling me she's scum. I'm not townreading Nacho as much as I want to be for exactly that reason. He COULD be scum, saying townie stuff while pushing that scum wincon, but I also don't feel like that's true. I'm cautious about committing to that. I want to. He's a decently-solid townread. But he's not as town as I want him to be.

But you see, it's acknowledging that they may be scum, that you might consider lynching them in the future.

This is the closest you have gotten to doing so. There hasn't been much dancing, and it makes me fear that scum are both not in <phok, TIP> and the scum are content just watching them fall. By not much dancing/figuring out, I mean not much has happened since your gambit at the beginning of the day.

Everything just...stopped.

There hasn't been "defending" much of either player since Day 1, or since I came in. Say one of them is scum and one of you is a scumbuddy. Why not defend them or direct the lynch to one over the other? I guess one may be directing it to TIP rather than phok, or vice versa, but I am just announcing my thought process here

What I'm trying to say in these huge nonsensical posts is that I'm not comfortable about any one of the universal townreads, not more comfortable than I am about phok, TIP. I'm most comfortable about matt, but I'm not even that certain about him either.

[Bert]

I have. But I can't shake the gut feeling Tammy's town, despite that iiiiiiiiiiiiitsy-bit of paranoia telling me she's scum. I'm not townreading Nacho as much as I want to be for exactly that reason. He COULD be scum, saying townie stuff while pushing that scum wincon, but I also don't feel like that's true. I'm cautious about committing to that. I want to. He's a decently-solid townread. But he's not as town as I want him to be.

Nacho went "Tammy's town, but not town enough."

Then you go "Nacho's not as town as I want him to be."

So they all drop towntells, you just said that - every one of the competent scumplayers will say townie things and town it up and get townread.

What is keeping them from being as townie as you want them to be? What's missing, and is that something I should be concerned about?? Are we lacking time and discussion which could firm up those reads, or what

This question goes to Nacho too.

[mastin2]

Mastin, I hope you can see where I am coming from rather than just call my perspective/motivation possibly scummy.

I'd be voting you if I didn't. Problem is, I

can

see where you're coming from, and that's the problem.

You said that about me too, so does that mean I'm a scumread? That's a very minor accusation but nothing more when you call it out.

Maybe. At this point, I don't know. It could be, it could not be. I want to default to a phok-TIP scumteam. SO badly. Because it'd mean that everyone who's actually saying townish stuff is actually town. But I can't help but feeling that's too easy to be true.

About a day remaining, you are on the Phok wagon, your vote is still there, you say the fast wagon

concerned you

, and....

Yes, I did, and it was concerning to me, too. In fact, if it weren't for the speed of the phok wagon, I'd probably be advocating for phok being scum much more strongly than I am.

your vote sits for days with no action.

It's sitting there because I've got no better place to put it. And, to be honest, the concern I have on the phok wagon would appear on my alternative votes. If I voted you, I'd be concerned with anyone following me onto there. If I voted TIP, I wouldn't be

as

concerned to have others there, but it wouldn't exactly give me warm fuzzy feelings, either.

[mastin2]

So they all drop towntells, you just said that - every one of the competent scumplayers will say townie things and town it up and get townread.

What is keeping them from being as townie as you want them to be? What's missing, and is that something I should be concerned about?? Are we lacking time and discussion which could firm up those reads, or what

The first part answers the second. I want them to be town. I cannot afford to assume them to be town. It's my hope. It's what my gut's telling me. But despite that, I can't be sure, and quite frankly, I'm not sure I ever could be. Anything town Nacho did would give me paranoia that he did it to look town. Same for Tammy, albeit to a lesser extent. The percentages may vary a bit in my read after that, but honestly, I don't think anything's changing today at all.

I wish I could lock things down. Show the clear scum. Show the clear town. But right now...I

can't

.

[Bert]

But I can't help but feeling that's too easy to be true.

yay you're connecting with what some of us have said, yayyyy

And that's exactly it, too easy. I feel like it's a coin-flip if they flip scum or not, and that bothers me

And this game has been boring for the majority of D2, and I'm just as guilty of not thinking about this game much for 10 out of 14 days...

it's deadline though and the drive to not get pushed into LYLO where I'm FORCED to go into survivalistic mode where it's super stressful, I'm wondering why not more people are back here congregating.

[Nachomamma8]

I think there's scum inside and I would bet the game on it.

I have an extraordinarily strong feeling to the opposite effect if Tammy would just town the fuck up for me.

[Nachomamma8]

literally this is not a reaction test this is the last piece of the puzzle i need for today but you just aren't delivering to the level I want you to, tamm tamm.

[Nachomamma8]

and i don't even know what to tell you. i can tell you mastin is town, and bert is town, and I am obviously town. and I like your reactions, but they aren't BLOW ME AWAY TAMMY-TOWN, SHOW ME A WHOLE NEW WORLD. if you can just look a little bit townier, just a little tiny bit, game is pretty much solved. just reassure me.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: phokdapolees

[phokdapolees]

Vote: phokdapolees

Reasoning por favor.

[Tammy]

and i don't even know what to tell you. i can tell you mastin is town, and bert is town, and I am obviously town. and I like your reactions, but they aren't BLOW ME AWAY TAMMY-TOWN, SHOW ME A WHOLE NEW WORLD. if you can just look a little bit townier, just a little tiny bit, game is pretty much solved. just reassure me.

Are you takig to me?

I’ve already towntold though Nacho, I mean for you at least I should have. And I’m really surprised you don’t see it because I think out of anyone here, you should. I think I’ve been incredibly transparent even if I haven’t been around a whole long time, but for anyone here it should be clear to you. There is literally no way that I could join this game in what lighthearted mood I did if I were scum because this playerlist would have just made me fucking depressed as hell.

And even even if you don’t recognize that, you know that you’d be dead right now if I were scum right? I mean wifom aside or whatever, but if I actually had a say in anything, you’d have been veto’d immediately so that I could kill you night one, because you’d be the one most likely to catch me. And you know what, I know that Bert brought up Stacking the Deck, but my end of day one play was designed to get you to town read me in case you were bodyguarded and lived past me killing you night one. There is none of that here…at all. And you know why?

Because I’m town and you should know that.

[Tammy]

I think there's scum inside and I would bet the game on it.

I have an extraordinarily strong feeling to the opposite effect if Tammy would just town the fuck up for me.

It is. It is. though and I can't understand how you can't see that I've already towned the fuck up.