Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Varsoon]

Wriggle, Wriggle~

[Antihero]

We have no way of confirming your claim, which means you could be an investigative PR and we don't know it.

This.

you could have rolecoped Bro on N1, knew he was vanilla, and then claimed to have "vanilla-ized" him.

Also, if I hammer you, it's not because of some stupid "trust tell" thing. i think that bridge has already been burned a long time ago.

[Antihero]

...and through all this, I can't help but feel like i'm missing something really important...

[Trust Fund]

Well, sort of.

Let's say I'm the last scum. That means that if you think scum has a rolecop of some sort, and varsoon is telling the truth; that both town AND scum had a rolecop. Now go look at bork's other large theme:

Xenoblade was 16 v 3 v 3
Town PRs:
Joat
2-shot hider
even-night cop
Miller Tracker
neighbor
macho bodyguard

Redscum had:
Odd-night rolecop
Doctor
Encryptor

Bluescum had:
Jailkeper
1-shot strongman
Godfather-neighbor

[Trust Fund]

And now compare to this game...

Town:
Mason-Bodyguard
2-shot Vig
Inno Child
Supersaint that only kills town
JOAT
Mason-Backup Jailkeeper
Two-failure only cop (antihero's slot)
One of {every other night vanilla cop, one-shot vanillizer}

Scum:
Inventor (rach)
Roleblocker/1-shot redirector (malakittens)
Traitor/Godfather/Bulletproof (Aj the epic)
Goon (Desperado)
One of {every other night vanilla cop, one-shot vanillizer}


Which do you think makes more sense in each spot?

[Trust Fund]

1. Aj The Epic Probly town it feels like aj town rather than aj scum. but this one is a weaker town read.

2. Andrius Ehh the buddying with Nacho is normal for him, The reliance on Nacho vetting for him being town also normal, but his play just does not feel right here leaning scum, Andy can you provide me with some links to scum games you have completed thanks.

3. BeautyAndTheBeast (pirate mollie + Majiffy) I am definitely getting a towny read here.... Given more time will have a more solid read on them since I usually can catch Jiffy scum eventually, but in the town pile for now and mollie feels more like her towny self so yeah town.

4. BROseidon ehhh weak town read here mainly based on the stats, but he feels like hes genuinely scum hunting...

5. Desperado Confirmation Bias much there Des? Seriously dude have you even read any of my town games, weak scum read here. Seriously dude do your homework instead of just focusing on the low hanging fruit.

6. Faster Than Light (Varsoon + Metal Sonic) OMG head exploding here.... these two really need to get their hydra act together, nullish due to I see scummy MS and towny Var, need more congency from the slot tween these two to sort it out better.

7. Ghostlin Ehh feeling more like the town Ghosty here, but have not played as many games, could you provide me links of town and scum Ghosty? Thanks A couple of each is good enough.

8. Mac is Mac..... meh read atm but leaning to town... As he posts more will be able to solidify this.

9. mastin2 uhh WTF???? Brain is suffering from reading his ISO umm?? Need to reread it through.

10. Nachomamma8 What on earth Nacho What do you mean by revenge? ehh that being said its a tad early to rule him out as town I think.... Leaning Town... B n B could you further elaborate why you see him as scum at this point besides the connection with Andy?

11. thezmon221 Nachopappa--- Dude is probably town though not sure why the hostility? I really am a sweet chick However his tunneling looks more town tunneling than scum tunneling.

12. Malakittens nhammen--- Need more time to sort Mala out, she is very good at hiding herself when she is scum Mala... Still sorting....

13. nickthename--- Not much experience with this dude, though he did very well as scum in a skype mafia game and I did not realize he was scum even in LYLO so watching this dude carefully.... Leaning town but watching....

14. notscience umm duh... Do I really need to say on this one

15. RachMarie Sweet as sugar and doing her best to keep up with ya all as you add another 20 pages uggh...

16. Skullduggery Um Skull needs to post a LOT MORE... Nullish, might be scum by PoE but its too soon to figure that out until we get some flips PoE does not do a lot.

17. Sound of Silence (fferyllt + GuyInFreezer) Prolific posters but most likely town.

18. TiphaineDeath Dude you tunnel way too much... Which is making me wonder since you were scum last time and doing this mega tunneling.... Could you provide me with links to a cple town and a cple scum games?

19. Trust Fund (Cabd + Syryana) hmmm mostly cabd here need more syr. Not seeing the usual trolling and goofy much from Syr... So yeah very weak town read here need more from Syr...

20. Venmar Dude what you smokin? Not sure what I have done to you Do you have anything actual to your case besides the fact that I had not yet done reads? Leaning town however...

21. zMuffinMan Need to read some other games not played with this dude in completed games yet. Could you provide me with a cple town and a cple scum games thanks.

[Trust Fund]

EDIT
DELETE
Reads:

Town

FTL

notscience
BnB
Venmar

Trust Fund

TD
Ghostlin

Aj The Epic

Desperado

nickthename

Rach

Null

Andrius (fery have him as town I think)
Nachomamma (I think fery have him as leaning town)
mastin2
Mac

Scum

nhammen/Mala

BROseidon
skull/mutley

Jeez ffery your reads sucked.

[Trust Fund]

Syr's being all town and stuff. Cabd gets a free ride unless my town read on Syr goes sour. Until day 3, anyway.

This is what she said about their townread on me.

As for their townread on varsoon, it was GiF's read, iirc. Something about "I've never read him wrong yet"

[Trust Fund]

Makes sense, but if we get down to me and two others in a 3 man lylo without having caught scum yet, mislynching me probably won't win us the game.

My major concern is if the game ends up with two/three of your green names alive in Lylo.

BTW this was right before TD fucked everything up. I don't exactly see a lack of wiggling here, either, varsoon, so that makes us both worms.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, I voiced concerns about a lynch-down-the-list plan from the onset, and expressed that I'd defend myself from a mislynch should we be Lylo.
Now that we're in lylo, I'm expressing further criticism of the failure of your lynch-down-the-list plan and defending myself.


Honestly, I don't know what else we can do. We've laid out our cases, made our appeals, and at this point we're just regurgitating old conflicts and other people's posts.

One new thing I will comment on is that I think it's really awkward that you didn't crossvote me, TF, especially after Anti didn't hammer you right away. I put my vote down to reflect my conviction, but why haven't you? Do you just want to be the person who holds the hammer should Anti vote me? I don't know how alignment-related this is, but I'd like to know for the sake of knowing.

[Trust Fund]

I was on my phone at the time. Vote tags are hard.

[Trust Fund]

We were both townread by pretty much every major town player, so at this point it's all about antihero coming to his own choice, with no dead town to sheep.

[Antihero]

And now compare to this game...

Town:
Mason-Bodyguard
2-shot Vig
Inno Child
Supersaint that only kills town
JOAT
Mason-Backup Jailkeeper
Two-failure only cop (antihero's slot)
One of {every other night vanilla cop, one-shot vanillizer}

Scum:
Inventor (rach)
Roleblocker/1-shot redirector (malakittens)
Traitor/Godfather/Bulletproof (Aj the epic)
Goon (Desperado)
One of {every other night vanilla cop, one-shot vanillizer}


Which do you think makes more sense in each spot?

So, there's a few confirmable roles (the IC and the masons), a killing role, supersaint, nerfed investigative role, and we don't know what shots the JoaT had, but I'm willing to be there was some investigative shot in there.

/ugh, TF has a point. Varsoon's claim doesn't really make sense to round out the town

[Trust Fund]

full claim: kahn wong, possessed warrior.

jack of all trades. 1 shot neighbourize, 1 shot track and 1 shot commute.

just for updates since people haven't quite gathered that im not just a neighbourizer.

mac sure is taking forever to claim night actions

sorry

i do this thing. called sleeping. but they are in the thread if you know where to look andy!

neighourized trust fund, tracked FTL to Trust Fund.

[Antihero]

oh, see there was an investigative shot

[Trust Fund]

Yes. Yes there was.

[Varsoon]

I've been telling the truth about my PR and my abilities since I claimed. Furthermore, I've shared my investigations with town every single time I used my power. I never used my ability to damn anyone's slot, moreover, I've been critical about my results and often tried to interpret the best way to use them and garner information from them. It didn't always work (see my 'gambit' with Nacho/Nick), but that doesn't mean I haven't tried to help town at every turn.

Mac tracked me in hopes to catch me lying about a night action (voiced suspicion of my slot/PR as well), but, if anything, Mac's track of me reinforces the above. I've been investigating with my power every odd numbered night, and sharing my investigations with town.

Also, we've been over how my PR fits into the town setup already.

Logically, I have to stand with BRO and say that I could see town having two weak cop roles when scum's confirmed to have a passive role-giver and a redirect/roleblocker. It'd make even more sense if AJ was godfather/some role that couldn't be targeted at night.

2shot cop
and vanilla cop
is weird as hell
with an INNO and MASONS

Except for the fact that scum have flipped 1 strong PR and 1 PR that may have been strong as well.

There could only be 2 masons. I haven't bothered looking for crumbs and don't really care to at this point.

IC is only somewhat powerful, and very hard to play optimally.

Both claimed investigative PRs are heavily gated (cop gets vanillaized if he doesn't catch scum, vanilla cop is weak already and then further gated by being non-consecutive).

[Antihero]

but... see...

a 1-shot vanillaizer that ONLY works on scum

what?

[Varsoon]

Actually, holy shit, in retrospect, AJ was a conditional Godfather. I'm so damn good.

P-EDIT:
@Anti: We've got no way of confirming that, though. Furthermore, could it be that it was an ability that could have recruited the traitor instead of vanillaizer? Is there anything like that in the game? It'd make a lot of sense given how coy TF was being about the reveal of what action he took on BRO. If scum was informed that there was a traitor in-game, don't you think scum would have some way of recruiting them/would make a play like, "Hey I targeted you with something that'll only work on scum. Did it work?"

[Antihero]

why would they need to confirm if a recruit worked in thread?

wouldn't they just... know? the following night when they either did or didn't have another member?

[Varsoon]

Because TF could use a failed recruit as a way of 'confirming' a townie and making his own PR look more town?

[Trust Fund]

Right, and so I totally revealed my super duper scum recruitment PR in the thread day two.

[Antihero]

Because TF could use a failed recruit as a way of 'confirming' a townie and making his own PR look more town?

but see, that doesn't make sense because if that were true, he would hold onto his shot a longer

[Trust Fund]

And let's just say you were correct, varsoon, and it's a recruit 1-shot. Why would I use it on broseidon, of all people? And then out that info at the start of day two?


Not to mention making the recruitment a oneshot would make me cry from a setup designer's angle.

[Antihero]

...which kind of brings up another point.

why did you use your shot on Night 1, TF?