Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[borkjerfkin]

Bork, do you allow the last living scum in a team to use their night role in addition to the facitoal kill?

I have no comment.

[Trust Fund]

TF, you've admitted to lying about your PR, and allowed misinformation about it to spread.

No shit, that's how a role gambit works. You don't go "oh by the way before I get reactions out of you, I'm actually telling a lie."

Bork, do you allow the last living scum in a team to use their night role in addition to the facitoal kill?

I have no comment.

Brb to the xenoblade thread I go.

[Varsoon]

I'm not going to entertain you and your hypothetical PR-brokering/setup speculation any longer, TF.

It's a good try at appealing to logic, but it falls flat in the face of the facts of the game.

We've got an entire 5724 posts worth of information. Why do we need to entertain hypotheticals at this point?

Work should be done with what exists. I'll let my play speak for itself.

[Trust Fund]

Can't win so you're dropping it? Come on, varsoon. You're "town vanilla cop" so what does that make me, given bork doesn't give scum and town the same roles?

[Trust Fund]

1. It relies on the idea that X-shot PRs and Anti's PR work the same way in regards to my investigate.

We already talked about this, he and I, in the thread on a prior day and confirmed our wording is similar.

2. It doesn't cover the fact that you could be lying about your PR.

My role PM says otherwise. Still waiting for you to tell me what hypothetical PR I have if you're a town vanilla cop.

3. It doesn't cover the fact that my results could have been manipulated on any night, since my ability is fairly telegraphed from claim-forward.

Rach died day one and was never able to use her PR, unless bork randomly threw in only one day ability. Mala dided day three so you weren't redirected unless you're now trying to say that I'm somehow ALSO a redirector. Try again.

4. It posits that I am a scum rolecop, which still doesn't explain how hypothetical scum-varsoon got results on players and delivered night kills if he was the only scum left since D5.

Bork, do you allow the last living scum in a team to use their night role in addition to the facitoal kill?

(If he won't answer I'll dig it up from xenoblade)

5. It misrepresents me as lying about my result on you, despite the fact that I've already explained how my result makes sense in regards to point 1, 2, and 3

Yeah well my town PM and antihero's lack of hammer says otherwise. So you kinda have to be.

Go on, refute these. (Well except 5 obviously that's a he said she said) What's your answer to number three in particular?

[Trust Fund]

You can't decide if your lie should be "Oh my result was manipulated,cabd is some oneshot scum PR" or "Oh cabd is actually some PR with ability uses left as of night three hence my result"

[Trust Fund]

So you keep flip flopping between the two, trying to see what antihero will buy more.

[Varsoon]

Furthermore, in this Lylo, neither of us can be trusted, since we're pitted in authorship against each other. You are my 'other' and I am yours, Cabd. Ergo, there's extreme bias in anything we write at this point, as we can only write from our privileged state of self.
Of course, I'll posit that my argument is correct and superior, and you'll do that for yourself as well, but that's exactly the problem here.

If alignment and intention are to be divined, the entire scope of our actions should be considered, rather than arguments made in the light of Lylo, don't you think?


Like I said, I'm done entertaining you. It's not because you've got some shred of damning evidence, but because we could go at this forever, and we've already exhausted discussion to the point that now we're arguing over hypothetical situations that are not confirmable in order to influence the vote of another player.

[Trust Fund]

Every scum PR so far has had an ability coupled with a one-shot.

RachMarie - Krelian, Mad Scientist of the Solaris Empire, was lynched Day 1.

A Mad Scientist can assign passive abilities to other players.

Malakittens - Miang Hawwa, Ancient Seductress of the Solaris Empire, was lynched Day 3.

An Ancient Seductress is a roleblocker, and she also has a 1-Shot redirect

Aj The Epic - Id, Split Personality of the Solaris Empire, was lynched Day 4.

A Split Personality is a Conditional Godfather Bulletproof Ability Enabler Traitor.

Desperado - Shakhan, Goon of the Solaris Empire, was lynched Day 5.

Soooomebody has inside info.

[Varsoon]

5712 is in reference to Mala and Rach. Desp was a goon and AJ was a traitor, so he functioned a bit outside of the norm.
I could have sworn that Rach had a one-shot ability. There was some confusion about her flip, and I still don't understand fully what her role does.

Although, again, this is exactly the kind of thing I've been critical of. You're scrounging to find some 'big hole', or some point of exposure. How does this disprove anything that we've been discussing? Even furthermore, this is just more arguing the hypothetical.

Getting really tired of it, man.

[Trust Fund]

Getting really tired of it, man.

I'm sure you are. It mut be horrible having to remember which lies you told when. So what's your oneshot ability?

[Varsoon]

Like, are you implying that I know players had one-shot abilities that weren't discussed

in their fucking modflips

?

Yeah, I get it, I'm stupid and didn't realize I was wrong about that.

Even then, so what? You're pushing discussion of hypothetical PR scenarios in an attempt to discredit me.

It's secondary to the text of the game.

P-EDIT:
Oooh, now I get it. You're trying to say that I must have a one-shot ability because I've falsely been thinking every scum PR had one.

The problem, Cabd, is that I'm Town Non-consecutive Vanilla Cop. My character is Jesiah Black. I've been scum-hunting all game. I've even caught a good bit of them. I've made my case on you, which is a culmination of my criticism of your play throughout the entire game. You can understand why it's unnerving to have to put in so much work as town, to show my reads, to do good hunting, to catch the scum minority, to spend lots of time on this game in hopes that my effort will culminate in a town win, when my opposition thinks they can outdo all that with hypothetical scenarios and other lie-mongering.

[Trust Fund]

The problem, Cabd, is that I'm Town Non-consecutive Vanilla Cop. My character is Jesiah Black.

Mmmhmm, and scum didn't get fakeclaims, riiiiiight? Your character name means jack and shit.

How about instead of deflecting you go back and answer the outstanding question about your role results.

You said it's that you were tampered with, maybe. So I still want to know what I could be to tamper with your results given we have already flipped a passive-giver, a godfather, AND a redirector from your scumteam.

[Trust Fund]

"Stating your role results takes seconds, fixing your fakeclaim's mistakes takes an eternity" ~DGB's quote fixed

[Trust Fund]

But hey, tell me again how I'm squirming, that definitely makes your logic more right. After all, nacho's read of me trumps all, right?

[Varsoon]

You shouldn't misrepresent my recognition and denial of your discourse as deflection. Further back-and-forth is masturbatory at this point.
I've already told everything factual about my results and my role. Feel free to entertain speculation and theory on it, but I've laid out the facts of how my role works and what my results were.

I'd ask you to make an actual case against me, but, again, authorial bias renders it untrustworthy.

I appreciate you digging yourself a deeper hole while trying to wriggle out of the scummy play you've been putting forth all game, though. At least you're tenacious. It's cute that you've found something hypothetical and 'damning' to latch onto, but if you think you've got any agency in the outcome of this game now that you're in lylo, you're mistaken.

Truth is, Antihero has all of the power in this situation, and nothing either of us does right now outweighs the 230 pages of evidence to both of our alignments.

[Varsoon]

I'm comfortable in giving that power to Antihero.
I trust my own conviction and casework as well as my play throughout the game so far.
So, TF, I have to ask again, why are you squirming so much to find negative things to say about me just now, now that we're in lylo together?

[Trust Fund]

But hey, tell me again how I'm squirming, that definitely makes your logic more right. After all, nacho's read of me trumps all, right?

wriggle

Wrong term, try again.

[Trust Fund]

I'm comfortable in giving that power to Antihero.

I'm not, really. If he truly cannot pick between the two of us, the he has a coin flip of 50-50 odds at picking correctly and hammering you. Whereas If I was a double voter and this was in my hands, we'd all be breaking out the town win champagne.

[Trust Fund]

So, TF, I have to ask again, why are you squirming so much to find negative things to say about me just now, now that we're in lylo together?

You keep asking this like it hasn't been answered. Until TD fucked up the plan, it didn't matter if it was you, nacho, andy, or bro. All of the above names AND myself would be dead before the game ended.

[Varsoon]

You're denying Antihero agency as a player of this game and a member of town. He's capable of making an informed decision, especially given the length of this game and both of our input in it. It's not a 50-50 chance when it's an informed decision.

I'm done asking questions and fielding yours. Balls in your court, Anti.

[Trust Fund]

I can't answer the questions so I'm gonna just say I'm done and pressure antihero to vote.

Kbai. I'll be over here being obvtown.

[Trust Fund]

It's not a 50-50 chance when it's an informed decision.

If he truly cannot pick

[Varsoon]

Like I said, I'm done entertaining you. It's not because you've got some shred of damning evidence, but because we could go at this forever, and we've already exhausted discussion to the point that now we're arguing over hypothetical situations that are not confirmable in order to influence the vote of another player.

You shouldn't misrepresent my recognition and denial of your discourse as deflection. Further back-and-forth is masturbatory at this point.

[Trust Fund]

So much for leaving. Welcome back.