Newbie 1425 Part Deux -- Game Over

[RayFrost]

Honestly ns, I thought your slot was scum before you replaced in and the change you made to your playstyle makes you both unreadable and completely useless.

So by virtue of the fact that you're voting a town read of mine based off of "waffling," your new playstyle is inherently scummy to me (and you have stated you are doing this on purpose, meaning meta is worthless because you are controlling it so don't even try to give me that shit), the playerslot read as scum to me before, and I just really fucking hate your persona, I'm not going to let this lynch on you go.

Either actually be a contributor or die. I don't care which.

[Wisdom]

Regals and ns

[RayFrost]

I didn't think I would ever end up agreeing with you, Wisdom.

Yet here we are.

[ArcAngel9]

Prod received, will catch up today..

[Smudger]

Ok that took a little longer than I originally thought, this is going to be a wall:

the only people I have had contact with before who are in this game now are RM (who I have replaced), Wisdom and NS. everyone else is new to me. In many ways this slowed down my reading as much of the latter part of D1 was a discussion on Meta.

so what have I got so far:

Chaos' early play only raised two questions in my notes and these point at 34 and 54. Basically post 34 the question that crossed my mind was, why is that indicative of scum, and post 54. Getting a scummy read off of the first two posts made by someone? Later on in D1 I have noted down that Chaos is pushing on a Singer vote. All of these add up to a very slight read of scummy bias on Chaos’ play, the slot was then replaced by Wisdom, so see my observations on this below.

Cats’ play began steady but then a few instances of sheeping others begins to creep in, The first is a sheep of my slot, 97, with a change of an RVS vote on Ray to a serious vote , while at the time of the post I would say it was warranted (see my comments on Ray below) it was IMO a blatant sheep of what RM has already said. This in itself is not a huge ringing bell, but then it happens again with a sheep of Wisdom near to the end of D1. This then is exasperated by PR fishing with regard to IV at 303 and 377. And I think one other occasion, but I cannot recall, as I did not note it down.

Evil Regals’ play began by giving me a null read, there is nothing there to be honest, in fact not much at all, maybe D2 will see more interaction, right now I am cautious of Evil but her actions later on in D1, see below concerning RM hammer, have convinced me to grant the benefit of the doubt

Arch Angel’s play began steady as well and my notes are minimal with a few question marks. Firstly and this is open to debate, She is suspicious of two townies who are now dead. Further she states she leans town on Evil? What is that based on? What content, of which there is little, would lead her to that read? After her initial suspicions of Singer and Guyett she later names Ray and Guyett as her scum suspects. She then is involved in the meta debate and maintains her opinion within that discussion.

IV, up until NS took over this was a major scum alert here in my eyes, little content and no real action in locating scum or even attempting to take part. IV/NS slot for now the slot remains near the top of my list as scum.

Ray’s play, I have read why early on people were concerned with his contribution, in particular those who have played with him before. What is notable is almost immediately after the third separate person had made such a comment he came on strong in the game. It is noticeable the differences in style and it is as if someone threw a switch, this concerns me though. Before I get to why I must say I partially agree with Ray regarding meta, I am adverse to looking at it but it does on occasion help, like in his play, what was said is correct, I get different reads. I would agree that it can be misleading for a few people who are able to change the way they play, but you cannot change the human element that makes us all who we are and this is what is used against us. Ray's change of style or expression is concerning me but for now I will hold my judgment on this in abeyance pending further development in game, I remain suspicious of Ray although in my notes at one point i actually write "Town ++", which means I got a town vibe on reading him in two separate posts, albeit those posts appear in the thread at the time there is the change is posting styles.

Wisdom’s play, replacing in late in the day on Day 1 and goes on the offensive quite quickly in particular in response to Singer and their discussion end of D1, what sticks out is the comment about seeing her dead D2. Is not a negative observation?, well it can be and it cannot be. On the one hand it could point to the fact why she died N1, but it could also say, “hey, lets set Wisdom up here and kill Singer”. Question is which is it. Again for now will hold committing to judging wisdom at this stage as later posts, in particular start of D2 do not raise any questions in my mind.

So they are my current thoughts/reads on players

There is also something else that needs to be covered. That is to do with the end of D1 votes. Looking at it RM was at L1 for a long time and there was no hammer, 136 does that say anything. Well the votes on her at that time were Guyett, Singer, Ray and Cats. Does that mean anything? Hypothesizing for a moment here Guyett and Singer are now confirmed town and dead, that would leave Ray and Cats on the Wagon who are unconfirmed. Looking at the activity during this time Chaos was absent and was prodded, Ray and Guyett were very active in the thread and ArchAngel makes an appearance but retains her vote on Ray and asks, “don’t Hammer yet. “ Evil appears in thread also and does not hammer in facts moves her vote to Guyett. IV also enters the thread and does not hammer placing a vote on Guyett. Archangel then reappears and moves her vote to Guyett thus placing him at L1. So does this say anything? What it does is maintain of suspicion on my part towards Ray and Cats, in particular Cats. Can it be said that by a process of elimination one or both is scum? Is it such a stretch of the imagination to suppose that all scum were not on the L1 wagon that my slot experienced towards the end of D1, I think not.

VOTE: ObsessedWithCats

I will continue to re read the thread and may well comment again on my current observations or any others I may pick up.

[Wisdom]

Further she states she leans town on Evil?

? Arc has been voting Evil today, I don't think she's leaning town on her.

And re:Cats, sheeping is not a scumtell.

[Smudger]

read again Wisdom

you will see that the above is mostly if not all D1 reading, at the time Arc had made that statement, so my question remains even more so now she has undertaken a 180

AI am not picking Cats up for that alone, it all adds up in my mind too many things that can be questioned,

[Wisdom]

k, the fact is that Cats gave me scumvibes too when I first read the game.

In any case, I like your reads and given I liked your slot for town anyway, I don't think I'm ever changing my read on you.

[Wisdom]

Rach could maybe be scum which is based on the lurking plus the Singer kill was odd as hell and singer commented towards Rach earlier in the game.

This sounded to me like Evil Regals killed singer so that we suspect Rach.

[RayFrost]

I could see the cats / regals pairing or a ns / regals pairing, but I can't see ns / cats and those are really the only people I can see as scum at the moment.

I also think Rach is town by the way the votes are spread out

Cats to go then.... I would love to see this persons reaction

VOTE: Cats

VOTE: Cats

Sheeping Wisdom and I want to see what happens with this wagon

Both of these votes I hate.

Unvote, Vote: Regals

Regals is more deserving of death than ns. I can sort the other two out later.

[Wisdom]

but I can't see ns / cats

Why not?

[Wisdom]

If anything, I'd say Regals/Cats is the less likely based on what you quoted.

[Wisdom]

Btw Regals is at L-1

[RayFrost]

She arbitrarily expressed dislike of two votes on someone. Idk seems like soft chainsaw to me.

I can't see ns / cats because it doesn't make much sense to me. Like I know it's a possibility, but I can't... mentally accept that reality.

[ObsessedWithCats]

That's a pretty impressive wall :/ Clearly what my vote set out to achieve no longer needs achieving.

UNVOTE

I'll admit I seem to have a sheeping problem in games where there's one or two players with more experience and a more forceful presence than me. I find it harder to doubt others' arguments than my own when they're well-written.

The PR fishing; I wasn't. What else would you have had me do, let them all lynch him PR or not? I didn't ask him to come in and claim, I suggested we stick to people who had already claimed VT. I'm not seeing the second one as even vaguely role-fishing-y; in what way could that have motivated him to claim with just one vote on him and me dismissing my own suspicions about him?

Your last paragraph has some weight to it if we assume there was scum on your slot's wagon. I'm not sure why we're making that assumption - there's enough players D1 for four-person wagons to easily be town-only (especially looking at it from my point of view not knowing if the wagon was justified yet).

I'm really not impressed with ns. So much for getting some input out of the slot. On the other hand, scum-reading me or not, Smudger's playing the game properly.

[RayFrost]

And your thoughts about Regals, given current statements?

[ObsessedWithCats]

My broad impression of ER is that she needs to give more input rather than just requesting it and explain her opinions more often rather than just stating them. I can't see any obvious scum-tells from her but she's got a fairly low constructive input to posts ratio without IV's excuse of being obviously very busy. Her last focussed scum-read was Guyett - she seemed pretty convinced but she still hasn't commented on the fact he flipped VT or what light that sheds on her other reads.

Regarding ER's comment on the votes on me, I'm now regretting not commenting on it more directly earlier. I mentioned indirectly in post 303 that I disagreed - I couldn't see scum motivation in the overall attitude of Guyett's vote. And I realise now that the reason I disliked ArcAngel's is that it came without any reasoning - exactly as ER's objection to it did.

She

could

be busy, but there's a definite if low-level scum-look about all of that.

[Wisdom]

I can't see ns / cats because it doesn't make much sense to me.

Why is that though? Did ns or cats do something to make you think "oh, there's no way cats is doing this when ns is his partner" or something similar?

[RayFrost]

No. I just don't feel it works.

[Wisdom]

That's not very helpful.

[Smudger]

Am posting on my phone but want to take up on a comment by Cats

in reply to my wall. You ask why I am making an assumption that one or both of you or Ray are scum, based on the votes on my slots wagon. While your comment regarding the fact that it could have been 4 town is a possibility it would mean that scum, or those that had not voted, chose to ignore a hammer and their target all along was Guyett. As I show everyone who entered the thread to a point after post 136 did not choose to hammer. The only person who was not active at all at that time was Chaos. So what does that whole scenario say to you?

[ObsessedWithCats]

Either your slot is scum, scum thought hammering your slot would be too obvious/harder to justify than Guyett, scum didn't care either way about who got lynched between your slot and Guyett's and liked the way the thread was going enough to let it drag out, scum by chance or design didn't get involved in the wagon or someone on the wagon (Ray or myself) was scum. Off the top of my head. Obviously you're going to dismiss the first and I'll dismiss half of the last, but the second at least I think is a reasonable possibility, and depending on who scum is the third could have played out without anything obvious to give it away.

[Wisdom]

What are you guys talking about, scum don't usually hammer. Much less when the wagoned person has claimed VT.

[RayFrost]

Never said I had a good reason.

But feelings are feelings. I trust my instinct.

[Nobody Special]

Bump.