[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[eaglgenes101]

2 1-shot cops
1 insane 1-shot cop
1 psychologist (sane)
3 vanilla townie (sane)
1 vanilla townie (insane)
2 mafia goons (sane)
1 mafia goon (insane)

The psychologist can investigate a player; they get whether the player is sane or not. It's probably mostly useless, but it can be pretty powerful in mildly contrived situations such as these. For balance reasons, psychologists can't investigate dead people.

Is this a normal game?

[Cabd]

No. It could be open but not normal.

Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cop,

Blank Vig, Non-Sane or Quack Doctor, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Mafia Mason, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector, Framer.

[eaglgenes101]

Dammit. Derpy oversight.

Anyway, did I get the balance right?

[Cabd]

2 1-shot cops
1 insane 1-shot cop
1 psychologist (sane)
3 vanilla townie (sane)
1 vanilla townie (insane)
2 mafia goons (sane)
1 mafia goon (insane)

8T v 3S with questionable sanity is kinda iffy.

[Wake1]

Man, tough crowd.

I could try different PRs for Mafia. Does each Mafia faction have to have the exact same roles?

[SalmonellaDreams]

Arson Mafia

ROLES
Two Arsonist Goons
Six Vanilla Townies
One Fire Marshall

MECHANICS
Rather than a factional kill, the scum team functions like an arsonist. Each night, they may either prime a target, or burn down all of their currently primed targets. They can't do both in the same night.

The Fire Marshall is a town sided investigative role that can determine if a specific player is primed.

I haven't figured out the estimated win rates yet.

How does it look? I wouldn't be surprised if there's some balance issue but it'd seem like a fun game at first glance.

[Tierce]

it adds in more depth and increases game time

It's not depth, it's luck and swing. And making the game a slog of extra Days doesn't make it more interesting, it makes it more frustrating for everyone involved. You shouldn't be catering to what you think is fun to run--you should be primarily thinking of what would be fun to play in. Playing in a game where the Night results are the result of sheer luck and role confusion? Role madness is always dicey, and piling on lots of action-blocking makes it less enticing, not more.

Salmonella--does priming resolve before or after the marshall's investigation?

[SalmonellaDreams]

Before.

[Tierce]

It seems interesting at first sight, since you're warning players about the Arsonists and thus isn't a crapshoot when suddenly there are multiple kills. However, there's the flip side of that: there might not be enough NKs for the Town to really understand the scum's pattern,

and

by multiple priming and waiting the scum risk leaving obvTown/threats alive.

It's interesting, and is probably worth a try when balance is given a look at. But the results might swing wildly depending on the players and the factions' composition.

[N]

I think it sounds pretty good! If the mafia leaves it too long before they burn their targets, they risk the marshal finding someone that's been primed and clearing them.

[SalmonellaDreams]

Alright, so I think 9:2 is actually best.

So, 1 Fire Marshall, 8 Vanilla Townies, and 2 Arsonist Goons.

It's slightly less scum sided, and with the inconveniences of the arson mechanic and an investigative role helping the town, it's probably as close to balanced as I personally could get it. It's probably not flawless, but oh well.

7:2 turned out to be too scum sided.

[JasonWazza]

I don't know about 7:2 being scum sided.

I think 7:2 is probably about even depending on play style (it may be less even if the scum hold back as long as possible to prime everything).

You have to realize, they have to prime someone that won't be lynched, Yes Fire Marshall clears people, he is basically clearing dead people.

[Klick]

I don't know about 7:2 being scum sided.

I think 7:2 is probably about even depending on play style (it may be less even if the scum hold back as long as possible to prime everything).

You have to realize, they have to prime someone that won't be lynched, Yes Fire Marshall clears people, he is basically clearing dead people.

Wait... Is this assuming that the Arsonists can ignite and arson someone else on the same night?

[pieguyn]

Don't Follow the Cop v2

1 - Mafia Goon
1 - Mafia Rolecop
1 - Sane Cop
1 - Random Cop
1 - Bodyguard
4 - Vanilla Townies

what if I put a bodyguard instead of a doctor? it seems like it might be an OK compromise, cause it'll make it harder for town to keep all the confirmeds alive

the rolecop can also help find out power roles. if I put a rolecop, making th esane cop macho could be a better possibility

thoughts? :3

[JasonWazza]

I don't know about 7:2 being scum sided.

I think 7:2 is probably about even depending on play style (it may be less even if the scum hold back as long as possible to prime everything).

You have to realize, they have to prime someone that won't be lynched, Yes Fire Marshall clears people, he is basically clearing dead people.

Wait... Is this assuming that the Arsonists can ignite and arson someone else on the same night?

Nope.

[eaglgenes101]

Let me see...
1 Cop (random sanity between sane and insane)
1 backup cop (random sanity)
1 backup backup cop (random sanity)
1 Psychologist (sane)
5 Vanilla Townie (Random sanities)
2 Mafia Goon (Random sanities)
1 Mafia Rolecop (Can see backup cop and backup backup cop roles) (Random sanity)

No one is aware of their sanities unless the psychologist tells them.

Is this more balanced? Does this present the psychologist nicely?

[ThAdmiral]

Hi guys I've got a mini theme game coming up, but I'm planning on keeping the setup more or less open, and I was told this is a good place to have a setup looked at.

My idea revolves around a town treestump that can choose other players in the game to add to a neighbourhood and bestow 1-shot powers on them.

Set up would be 9 town, 3 scum, and 1 town treestump aka the neighbourmaster (for lack of a better word), who doesn't count towards town numbers.

Every night the neighbourmaster can choose one person to add to the neighbourhood. The neighbourhood can only ever be a maximum of 2 people (other than the treestump), but if one of the neighbours dies they can be replaced the following night. Each night the neighbourmaster can also choose from a selection of 1-shot roles to give to the neighbour/s. Obviously the treestump has to choose carefully, else he might accidentally choose a member of the mafia.

Potential 1-shot power roles could be: vig, jk, watch, track, bp vest, doc. I think cop would be too powerful in this setup.

Questions: what do you think the main issues would be with a setup like this?
Should the 1-shot roles be only allowed to be given out once for the whole game, or should the neighbourmaster be able to choose from the entire selection each night? (i.e. should he be able to hand out 1-shot vigs each night if he wishes)
Should the player that has been given a 1-shot role be compelled to use it that night, or can they keep it to use later? Furthermore should they be able to use two or more abilities in one night if they have "saved them up", as it were? (I can already see potential problems here, especially if the neigbourmaster is indeed able to give out roles more than once. To use the example before if he kept giving 1-shot vigs to the same person they could alpha strike at some point later in the game for the win)
Should the mafia also have power and if so what powers should they have? (If yes I'm thinking it could have a nice symmetry if the mafia godfather can also dole out 1-shot roles to his goons - in which case should the godfather also be a treestump?)
Is the setup too dependent on who the treestump neighbourmaster picks (i.e. if he picks well town wins, if he doesn't town loses)?
Are there any 1-shot roles that shouldn't be in the game? Are there any others I haven't mentioned that you think would be a good fit?

[Cabd]

Vi did a large theme setup kind of like that, where "angels" of both alignments sent gifts to their respective teams. You might want to read that game to see how it went and the player's reception to it.

[JasonWazza]

Let me see...
1 Cop (random sanity between sane and insane)
1 backup cop (random sanity)
1 backup backup cop (random sanity)
1 Psychologist (sane)
5 Vanilla Townie (Random sanities)
2 Mafia Goon (Random sanities)

1 Mafia Rolecop (Can see backup cop and backup backup cop roles) (Random sanity)

No one is aware of their sanities unless the psychologist tells them.

Is this more balanced? Does this present the psychologist nicely?

What the hell happens when a rolecop has an insane sanity?

[Cheery Dog]

Let me see...
1 Cop (random sanity between sane and insane)
1 backup cop (random sanity)
1 backup backup cop (random sanity)
1 Psychologist (sane)
5 Vanilla Townie (Random sanities)
2 Mafia Goon (Random sanities)
1 Mafia Rolecop (Can see backup cop and backup backup cop roles) (Random sanity)

No one is aware of their sanities unless the psychologist tells them.

Is this more balanced? Does this present the psychologist nicely?

The backup cops seem redundant in just giving town extra known roles.
The psychologist would have to sacrifice himself to get result(s) out there for people, but I guess it could work.
I do think you should lose the backup backup though.

[Bicephalous Bob]

I worked out my Trouble Communicating setup and put everything in a wiki page. Feedback would be appreciated.

[JasonWazza]

The main problem is simple, it promotes random lynching.

[BBmolla]

Arson Mafia

ROLES
Two Arsonist Goons
Six Vanilla Townies
One Fire Marshall

MECHANICS
Rather than a factional kill, the scum team functions like an arsonist. Each night, they may either prime a target, or burn down all of their currently primed targets. They can't do both in the same night.

The Fire Marshall is a town sided investigative role that can determine if a specific player is primed.

I haven't figured out the estimated win rates yet.

How does it look? I wouldn't be surprised if there's some balance issue but it'd seem like a fun game at first glance.

Seems fun, only concern, is 2:7 nightless townsided or scumsided? Just curious.

[Alduskkel]

According to this wiki page, 7:2 nightless is mildly town sided. 6:2 would be even 50-50.

[Grimgroove]

But it isn't nightless.