Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[zMuffinMan]

She doesn't like how muffin transferred lots of money to Lost Butterfly because they weren't even on their Big Six.

i wouldn't have transferred money to LB if i didn't feel they were town... and the entire point of the plan was to randomise it so scum couldn't guess who would be sending money to who.

[1baldeagle1]

Mhork, make her hurry up though, I don't think you get the Dead QT forever.

[zMuffinMan]

it's until the end of this day phase

[KingdomAces]

Up to the end of D1.

Okay, Seanald is looking absolutely terrible with continually going back and forth about how much he's read, along with advertising an incredibly antitown ability.

I'm retracting my townread on Garuda. They seem to be just going after the easy targets, while giving reasons that don't even seem good enough to justify that. I'm speaking mostly about Hermy and Klick here. Yeah hindsight, but Hermy only really gave newbie tells from that first post, and unlike Butterfly, they seemed like they were just voting her for fun and not because they actually had reasons. As for Klick, pretty much everyone's first post who wasn't around the entire time was some version of that. Their reaction to being pressed on it isn't that good either.

Still have townreads on Eagle and Morph. Their reaction to Pepper's entrance at the very least sound like not scum with him.

[zMuffinMan]

so you have... two town reads now and that's it...?

[KingdomAces]

It's a process, okay?

[Voidedmafia]

Hey, Muffin, what are your thoughts on ProHawk being proven to have advertised Gravedigger?

Wait, what? Where?

She doesn't like how muffin transferred lots of money to Lost Butterfly because they weren't even on their Big Six.

Tell Tammy that their Six=/=town Six, so she shouldn't complain <_<

Ah yes. My halfhearted support of the wagon and then not doing anything about it. It couldn't possibly stemmed from me, ya know, not being on/looking at the game/being busy with real life, right?

Saying that you would've been on the wagon, then more or less disappearing at the tipping point is still suspect.

[Lord Mhork]

Well I'm sorry things came up. Clearly me being scum is the logical conclusion. >.>

Also Tammy says she'll do her reads when she damn well pleases and trying to force her will just make her dig in. Also she says no to further stupid questions (her phrasing) and will think of something to tell LB later.

Also you guys know that Tammy can read the thread, right?

[Garuda]

I'm already starting to get bored and I'm still collecting data for the Peregrine meta report so I'll go through some random ISOs when I feel like it I guess.

The last 40 or so pages before the end of Day are kind of a blur to me but I vaguely remember someone asking this slot what we thought about Klick's replace out. This is what I told Nacho when we talked about it briefly.

Morph... I am having the exact same thoughts as I have in previously, just on a much shorter scale due to the lack of areas that I've been able to read in detail and the size of the game. I've also come to find that when I make the observations that I usually make,

I don't get listened to.

you want to know who's incredibly obvious town in this game? Mhork. Pyro. pie. Nero. LB. ProHawk. All six of them are very likely town to me, but the reasoning I use for about four of those is so different from the "normal" version of scum hunting that I've come to get ignored when I try. So, I quit.

Feeling dismayed about people generally not listening to your reads because your scumhunting is unconventional or weird is something that I find tends to come from town way more often. I think it ties into the idea that town have a vested interest in getting their suspects lynched and feel frustrated when other people do not help them do that. (I used to see this a lot in chat mafia and I think this translates over fairly well.)
I also vaguely remember that Klick tends to get emotional when people act dismissive towards him.
The actual act of replacing out is null in that I think Klick would replace out if he feels like he's hindering his scum team but combined with all the other stuff, I think it's town.

Nacho wasn't as strong about it as I was but I think that's mainly due to giving Klick's scum game way too much credit (his scum game is good but not THAT good).

Jacob's posts are irritatingly null as usual (well as they mostly are, he can be obvtown when he wants to be - see NY 160).

[Garuda]

Is it sad that on day two this is all you have to go on on zdenek?

Very very sad.

Have you done everyone in the game? I feel like this is the only one where your conclusion is actually scum.

I want to see the best in people so I usually townread excessively. I had a DoctorPepper-scum conclusion though! There was no good to see in him at all.

Idk, seems like the two cancel each other out.

What do you mean?

every wagon that lead to a lynch

All two of them. Wow, you're right. Such deep insight.

And one of them was on scum...?

Hey Garuda, there's something I think we need to put some attention on today.

What?

How solid is your Peregrine read?

I feel pretty damn confident in mine.

Vote: KingdomAces

Out of curiosity, is this because of the DP flip first and foremost? I may be forgetting your read on them before, but wasn't it at least a not-scum read?

We liked investigation immune, hitman, and bitches.
We didn't really like anything else.

By the way, something that also needs to be talked about, but since we lost a member of The Big Six we have to decide whether we want to keep it down to 5 or to add a new member to receive money. If we're opting for the former, we need to be even more sure on those 5 given that the money pool is shrinking (this might be the best solution frankly).

We should at the very least remove DP's votes and get them from those that are still waiting to be online at the same time as their hydra buddy and so have been unable to discuss them.

Hmm?

He claimed to use it on Pyro, and you seem to believe him, but if you think he's scum, do you think he ACTUALLY mediumed Tammy when he could/would medium DrPepper?

I could see that happening, sure. If he claimed he has medium, he has to use it like he would as town.

So you'd like to explain why it is a bad idea to confirm that zdenek got two pro-scum igems like he claimed he did, ffery?

If zde/aces is town, we can be sure that scum don't have two abilities that could potentially screw us over later on, either through a wasted cop use or because a kill goes through a doc/bg protect, and while its unlikely that he'll ever get to buy nk for most/all of the game (i certainly don't have enough of a townread on them for that yet), he either permanently keeps them out of scum's hands if he stays alive, or forces them to waste an nk just to rob his grave the next night for those two abilities.

You also could have just asked the replacement to claim.

[BBmolla]

VOTE: Voided

[Voidedmafia]

What do you mean?

Any towniness Klick got from that post where he said he'd stay in and self-voted got canceled out due to him doing nothing after that point, not even a post popping in to say he's still here. I'd say that to me most of the towniness from that post was kinda predicated on him actually doing something worthwhile after he said he'd stay in; the lack of doing such imo defeats the purpose of saying you weren't going to replace out and nullifies any town feelings garnered.

And one of them was on scum...?

Though he's claiming I bussed DP to save my own life, or something like that, so.

Nearly everything Eagle's been saying about me constantly sounds like he's trying to fit square voided posts and actions into a round Voidedscum hole, which is why I'm confused and annoyed (mainly annoyed) as to why there doesn't seem to be any indication that he's thought over his read on me or if what he's claiming is actually something scummy from me.

You also could have just asked the replacement to claim.

I was more interested in making sure that they really were where they were claimed to be: In the hands of zdenek's slot. That way or my way would've still gotten the job done.

[Ghostlin]

On the plan. Here are my (personal) reasons I don't like it. I know PA has some of her own, but these are my damn feelings:

1) I didn't replace in to

not

play the game's mechanics. The plan, in essence, essentially forces that. "But Ghostlin," you may cry, "there's scum hunting to be done besides that, and Town might not win auctions if you don't pass your name to the townie town towns." Yeah, if I wanted to replace into a mountainous,

I would of replaced into a fucking mountainous.

This reason's personal, and has nothing to do with mechanics or planning. (To be honest, mandatory advertising isn't so bad. That I could live with.)

2) You are essentially asking us to siphon money out of coffers that I know are Town to coffers I do not know are Town. In other words, you are forcing me to give money to people I don't necessarily have faith in to take $100 and change to purchase stuff for my greater good. What's worse, you're making me do it randomly. By Town Wisdom of the Crowds. To people I might not agree with. I want to win this game, so you're essentially taking my personal security and going 'Fuckity whee, who gives a shit about your Town Reads, or if this a player who's play style you agree with, Town's decided, fuck you.'

3) By claiming who routed money where, you are incentivizing scum to use that NK and kill them more. Yes, you may doctor the highest money player, but they can afford to remove second place. Moving the money from 15 smaller banks to 6 bigger banks is horribad, and you should feel bad. It turns the bigger banks into targets--and there's no guarantee they'll keep pace with scum earning power anyhow.

4) "This tactic won MM2." Yeah, and the second you said that, you're sure scum didn't think of ways to not work it? That Magua didn't implement ways not to break this game in the exact same way? This argument is stupid mostly because it involves not only scum but the mod not to be fucktarded about their setups/studying the setup and implementing changes.

5) If you're wrong on one of the six, only ONE of the six, you may have just sent scum huge amounts of money. And while probability argues somewhat normal distribution, it's still a fickle mistress

I don't have a 100% cure, but I even think just moving the remainder of money around frequently would be advantageous if you insist on the Town creating small banks and using it to bid on shit.

[Ghostlin]

I forgot one:

7) It turns a game that should be scum hunting and clever seizing of goods into a clusterfuck of graphs, charts and trying to determine what numbers mean instead of what behavior does.

[Harakiri]

^
Not lynching this guy ever... however you forgot to post in your hydra

~Sakura Hana

[PeregrineV]

On the plan. Here are my (personal) reasons I don't like it. I know PA has some of her own, but these are my damn feelings:

1) I didn't replace in to

not

play the game's mechanics. The plan, in essence, essentially forces that. "But Ghostlin," you may cry, "there's scum hunting to be done besides that, and Town might not win auctions if you don't pass your name to the townie town towns." Yeah, if I wanted to replace into a mountainous,

I would of replaced into a fucking mountainous.

This reason's personal, and has nothing to do with mechanics or planning. (To be honest, mandatory advertising isn't so bad. That I could live with.)

2) You are essentially asking us to siphon money out of coffers that I know are Town to coffers I do not know are Town. In other words, you are forcing me to give money to people I don't necessarily have faith in to take $100 and change to purchase stuff for my greater good. What's worse, you're making me do it randomly. By Town Wisdom of the Crowds. To people I might not agree with. I want to win this game, so you're essentially taking my personal security and going 'Fuckity whee, who gives a shit about your Town Reads, or if this a player who's play style you agree with, Town's decided, fuck you.'

3) By claiming who routed money where, you are incentivizing scum to use that NK and kill them more. Yes, you may doctor the highest money player, but they can afford to remove second place. Moving the money from 15 smaller banks to 6 bigger banks is horribad, and you should feel bad. It turns the bigger banks into targets--and there's no guarantee they'll keep pace with scum earning power anyhow.

4) "This tactic won MM2." Yeah, and the second you said that, you're sure scum didn't think of ways to not work it? That Magua didn't implement ways not to break this game in the exact same way? This argument is stupid mostly because it involves not only scum but the mod not to be fucktarded about their setups/studying the setup and implementing changes.

5) If you're wrong on one of the six, only ONE of the six, you may have just sent scum huge amounts of money. And while probability argues somewhat normal distribution, it's still a fickle mistress

I don't have a 100% cure, but I even think just moving the remainder of money around frequently would be advantageous if you insist on the Town creating small banks and using it to bid on shit.

I forgot one:

7) It turns a game that should be scum hunting and clever seizing of goods into a clusterfuck of graphs, charts and trying to determine what numbers mean instead of what behavior does.

Amazingly, the plan is only a plan.

The object in MM2 was to keep the scummy players poor on the assumption that they were scum. Turns out they were (go Matt!) in that case.

Yes, this plan is different, but the secret is if you don't follow it, but play like town should, then it doesn't matter anyway. Town will still win.

For example, anyone claiming who they sent money to are claiming based on the second random determination they made, since to claim the actual recipient is full on retarded because the scum PM states that they can stop it. Claiming all of the factual amounts and targets 2 days afterwards, after the targets get it, is when the real information gets put in the thread.

With that said, if you decide to send money to another townread, and that is outside the plan, you will then be judged on your reasons, just like for any night action claim in a non-MM game.

In short, look for scum in the thread, and augment that with PR results.

[KingdomAces]

Agree with that post giving massive townpoints to Ghostly Penguin, and I forgot to mention in my reply to Muffin earlier that I still have townreads on Lost Butterfly and Harakiri, the only reason I mentioned Morph and Eagle specifically was because of their reaction to one of DP's posts.

More things I should have said before, I think my main qualms with Upside are just not liking N's playstyle. Quilford's entrance made my opinion of the slot a lot better.

[Ghostly Penguin]

On the plan. Here are my (personal) reasons I don't like it. I know PA has some of her own, but these are my damn feelings:

1) I didn't replace in to

not

play the game's mechanics. The plan, in essence, essentially forces that. "But Ghostlin," you may cry, "there's scum hunting to be done besides that, and Town might not win auctions if you don't pass your name to the townie town towns." Yeah, if I wanted to replace into a mountainous,

I would of replaced into a fucking mountainous.

This reason's personal, and has nothing to do with mechanics or planning. (To be honest, mandatory advertising isn't so bad. That I could live with.)

2) You are essentially asking us to siphon money out of coffers that I know are Town to coffers I do not know are Town. In other words, you are forcing me to give money to people I don't necessarily have faith in to take $100 and change to purchase stuff for my greater good. What's worse, you're making me do it randomly. By Town Wisdom of the Crowds. To people I might not agree with. I want to win this game, so you're essentially taking my personal security and going 'Fuckity whee, who gives a shit about your Town Reads, or if this a player who's play style you agree with, Town's decided, fuck you.'

3) By claiming who routed money where, you are incentivizing scum to use that NK and kill them more. Yes, you may doctor the highest money player, but they can afford to remove second place. Moving the money from 15 smaller banks to 6 bigger banks is horribad, and you should feel bad. It turns the bigger banks into targets--and there's no guarantee they'll keep pace with scum earning power anyhow.

4) "This tactic won MM2." Yeah, and the second you said that, you're sure scum didn't think of ways to not work it? That Magua didn't implement ways not to break this game in the exact same way? This argument is stupid mostly because it involves not only scum but the mod not to be fucktarded about their setups/studying the setup and implementing changes.

5) If you're wrong on one of the six, only ONE of the six, you may have just sent scum huge amounts of money. And while probability argues somewhat normal distribution, it's still a fickle mistress

I don't have a 100% cure, but I even think just moving the remainder of money around frequently would be advantageous if you insist on the Town creating small banks and using it to bid on shit.

I forgot one:

7) It turns a game that should be scum hunting and clever seizing of goods into a clusterfuck of graphs, charts and trying to determine what numbers mean instead of what behavior does.

Who fucks up hydraposting? Ghostlin!

[Ghostly Penguin]

^Was actually Ghostlin posting on Ghostlin.^

[zMuffinMan]

Also you guys know that Tammy can read the thread, right?

Lynch All Liars

he said he'd stay in and self-voted

no, he said that was his last post and self-voted


@ghostlin,

how much of the thread have you read now?

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

words

You are playing very differently today. Much more assertive.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

I had a DoctorPepper-scum conclusion though! There was no good to see in him at all.

so now what? You had two scumreads - one flipped scum (well done on that congrats etc) but your hydra partner is telling you the other is town so you got nothin'

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

By the way, something that also needs to be talked about, but since we lost a member of The Big Six we have to decide whether we want to keep it down to 5 or to add a new member to receive money. If we're opting for the former, we need to be even more sure on those 5 given that the money pool is shrinking (this might be the best solution frankly).

We should at the very least remove DP's votes and get them from those that are still waiting to be online at the same time as their hydra buddy and so have been unable to discuss them.

Hmm?

That last bit was about myself because I hadn't spoken to Quilford for at least 3-4 days at that point. We caught up last night for a bit and I left him some questions to think about as he catches up but we still haven't been able to work out some definate townreads we agree on.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

On the plan. Here are my (personal) reasons I don't like it. I know PA has some of her own, but these are my damn feelings:

1) I didn't replace in to

not

play the game's mechanics. The plan, in essence, essentially forces that. "But Ghostlin," you may cry, "there's scum hunting to be done besides that, and Town might not win auctions if you don't pass your name to the townie town towns." Yeah, if I wanted to replace into a mountainous,

I would of replaced into a fucking mountainous.

This reason's personal, and has nothing to do with mechanics or planning. (To be honest, mandatory advertising isn't so bad. That I could live with.)

2) You are essentially asking us to siphon money out of coffers that I know are Town to coffers I do not know are Town. In other words, you are forcing me to give money to people I don't necessarily have faith in to take $100 and change to purchase stuff for my greater good. What's worse, you're making me do it randomly. By Town Wisdom of the Crowds. To people I might not agree with. I want to win this game, so you're essentially taking my personal security and going 'Fuckity whee, who gives a shit about your Town Reads, or if this a player who's play style you agree with, Town's decided, fuck you.'

3) By claiming who routed money where, you are incentivizing scum to use that NK and kill them more. Yes, you may doctor the highest money player, but they can afford to remove second place. Moving the money from 15 smaller banks to 6 bigger banks is horribad, and you should feel bad. It turns the bigger banks into targets--and there's no guarantee they'll keep pace with scum earning power anyhow.

4) "This tactic won MM2." Yeah, and the second you said that, you're sure scum didn't think of ways to not work it? That Magua didn't implement ways not to break this game in the exact same way? This argument is stupid mostly because it involves not only scum but the mod not to be fucktarded about their setups/studying the setup and implementing changes.

5) If you're wrong on one of the six, only ONE of the six, you may have just sent scum huge amounts of money. And while probability argues somewhat normal distribution, it's still a fickle mistress

I don't have a 100% cure, but I even think just moving the remainder of money around frequently would be advantageous if you insist on the Town creating small banks and using it to bid on shit.

Didn't you replace in yesterday? Why didn't you say something then?

I was also uneasy with the plan at first but then I got nominated as a top six and now I like it a lot!

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

and now I like it a lot!

this is an exaggeration, just to be clear. I think the plan was formulated in a pro-town way but that's just so many holes in it because Magua doesn't want that sort of thing happening