Micro 252: There Is No Doctor - END

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

ETL, I guess I should have been more forthcoming. It was partly intuitive and it took time for me to figure out how to put it in words.

What do you think of Sangres? I am underwhelmed by ffery's contribution so far and feel that if town, she would take charge and lead the game (somewhat like what you are doing). Even if she hasn't discussed things with Nacho, I still think that she would take a stronger stand on the game.

You're doing a lot of water-testing here.

^ I really don't like this post either. I am discussing my reads with ETL who is a townread of mine. After all, part of the point of trying to get townreads is to sync up and discuss reads.

I

could

see the scum motivation behind it as well - to see how hard it would be to push your lynch - testing the waters - so to speak. But that still makes it null.

I don't like that you immediately jumped onto the possible scum motivation even though it is the less likely one here. My thinking is that you know I figured out that you are scum and your best shot is to push a lynch on me (especially when I am being FOSsed hard by town).

[sangres]

ETL, I guess I should have been more forthcoming. It was partly intuitive and it took time for me to figure out how to put it in words.

What do you think of Sangres? I am underwhelmed by ffery's contribution so far and feel that if town, she would take charge and lead the game (somewhat like what you are doing). Even if she hasn't discussed things with Nacho, I still think that she would take a stronger stand on the game.

You're doing a lot of water-testing here.

^ I really don't like this post either. I am discussing my reads with ETL who is a townread of mine. After all, part of the point of trying to get townreads is to sync up and discuss reads.

I

could

see the scum motivation behind it as well - to see how hard it would be to push your lynch - testing the waters - so to speak. But that still makes it null.

I don't like that you immediately jumped onto the possible scum motivation even though it is the less likely one here. My thinking is that you know I figured out that you are scum and your best shot is to push a lynch on me (especially when I am being FOSsed hard by town).

It wasn't until reading that post that I really considered that you might be scum. I've thought the push on you wasn't likely to go anywhere because your sorting of ETL has looked town to me. I indicated as much in post 115.

But, looking back over the thread, that post really isn't the first where it looks like you're searching for validation about suspecting me.

[sangres]

Also, you never answered my question.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I wasn't looking for validation to suspect you. I already said I found you scummy.

Pedit: What question?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't like that you immediately jumped onto the possible scum motivation even though it is the less likely one here. My thinking is that you know I figured out that you are scum and your best shot is to push a lynch on me (especially when I am being FOSsed hard by town).

This is kind of a stretch, don't you think...

[sangres]

Considering ETL's frustration, I am leaning more towards her being town. I need to double-check other games to see if she fakes it as scum. She was frustrated in Newbie 1347 as well in the initial stages of the game but it seemed very different the way she handled it. I'll try and check more recent games though.

Sangres, thoughts so far? What do you make of TIP's vote on the IC, and Bulbazak's, Pitoli's and ETL's reactions to it?

How much of your ETL read is rule-of-thumb based?

Of the three, the one I like least is Pitoli's reaction.

What do you mean, "rule-of-thumb" based?

not player specific.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Sangres apparently had a townread on me before I made a post that was essentially null. Why would a post like mine change a read from town to scum when it is just as likely if not more, that I simply want to discuss my Sangres-scumread with you?

How much of your ETL read is rule-of-thumb based?

Based on my interaction with ETL, and reading her games, I developed a sense for her playstyle. I don't believe that she as scum would go all out and push a player as scum when that player has a townread on her.

It is not impossible for scum to do. For instance, I wouldn't have a townread on Thor for pushing a lynch. But it is not something I see ETL doing based on what I gleaned of her personality. To that extent, it is player-specific.

[The Purple Rose]

If nobody here realizes that "better write a case or I'm voting you" is as terrible as a "correct" vote, I don't know what to tell you. Setting possible scum an ultimatum is silly. They write up stuff and your thread is empty as you don't dare to actually vote, your legitimate reason is gone.

Since this is obviously directed at me, the secondary implication of my "ultimatum" was that if your case sucked, I'd still vote you.

So get to writing that case and stop making excuses.

And further, I seem to have one massive disconnect with this town. When I see someone post omg, it was just a joke, at an accusation, alarm bells ring everywhere. So when I post "I don't like his reaction, and that starts with post 14", that's what I mean. For the rest, he's doing nothing at all, laughs everything away. When he gets voted, mister tip has the idea that it might be funny to ask why he's scummy.

That's the third time it's in a post now and I think that's about enough. That tip trolls and keeps asking for a case is his good right, but I expected you'd at least read my posts if you asked for something. Same with ETL. I posted my reason, (given, it was a single line), and the answer is "stop deflecting give the case".

At which point I'm more or less done trying to make an effort. Tbh, I don't know why I'm making this post. It's not as if you are going to read it and think "hmm, i was completely wrong about tip, I should vote him".

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

PurpleRose, I don't understand your case on TIP. Can you summarize it in a few sentences? I don't have a good read on TIP. I lean slight town based on his posting style. It comes across as careless and un-selfconscious but anti-town. I'll look through his other games before I try to develop a better read.

[The Purple Rose]

you are joking.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I never responded to that, TPR. That's a better response than what you had been using. I agree that Tippy is being useless. But I also think you are rather defensive and needlessly aggressive, towards me in particular, and that's a bit odd, considering the only thing I really did was suspect you.

[sangres]

Sangres apparently had a townread on me before I made a post that was essentially null. Why would a post like mine change a read from town to scum when it is just as likely if not more, that I simply want to discuss my Sangres-scumread with you?

You've tripped over something that I watch for in that post.

How much of your ETL read is rule-of-thumb based?

Based on my interaction with ETL, and reading her games, I developed a sense for her playstyle. I don't believe that she as scum would go all out and push a player as scum when that player has a townread on her.

It is not impossible for scum to do. For instance, I wouldn't have a townread on Thor for pushing a lynch. But it is not something I see ETL doing based on what I gleaned of her personality. To that extent, it is player-specific.

At the time I asked the question, you'd made reference to her first newbie game as an example of her being prickly about being town read. So, it's a pattern you see in other games as well?

[The Purple Rose]

if there's anything I'm not, it's aggressive. At the moment I have two cases out, two townreads, and I'm not leading any wagon or having any form of interrogation.

I am pissed off at people's laziness and inability to read. And you are one of those people. If defensive means calling people stupid for not reading that I answered their question, stupid for not understanding how something is scum: I'll be defensive all game if you keep this up.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

lolwow ok. So you're just rude and insulting, a player who isn't enjoyable to play with? Got it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's funny that you are "pissed off about people's laziness" when, besides TiP, you've been the only other unhelpful player. You had to be asked multiple times by multiple people to justify your read on TiP before you came up with 243. So, you really don't have a leg to stand on with calling other people lazy. You didn't even join the thread until long after the rest of us here had a dialogue going.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You've tripped over something that I watch for in that post.

You've played with me before in two games. I find it odd that you don't think I would discuss/re-evaluate my reads by talking with other players. Even if you "look" for it, you should know by now that I routinely ask people who they think is scum or ask for reads on specific players.

At the time I asked the question, you'd made reference to her first newbie game as an example of her being prickly about being town read. So, it's a pattern you see in other games as well?

No, I found her frustration towards me genuine and had a townread independent of meta. I looked her newbie game to double-check whether it was possible that she could fake it as scum and whether it looks different when she does it as scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Purple Rose, I went through your entire ISO and don't see anything more convincing about TIP than that you you didn't like his reactions. You declined to provide a case when TIP asked because you felt that your job wasn't to convince him. But why aren't you providing it when others have asked for it? It is us you would need to convince.

I also don't understand why you think I am a bad player and are whiteknighting me. I'd like to elaborate on that. All you implied was that other people have me as a second/third scumread and would default to me if their preferred wagon doesn't go through.

[sangres]

You've tripped over something that I watch for in that post.

You've played with me before in two games. I find it odd that you don't think I would discuss/re-evaluate my reads by talking with other players. Even if you "look" for it, you should know by now that I routinely ask people who they think is scum or ask for reads on specific players.

And I find it odd that someone who has meta'd me as extensively you have during the two games we've played together doesn't have a pretty damn good grasp of my variances en hydra.

At the time I asked the question, you'd made reference to her first newbie game as an example of her being prickly about being town read. So, it's a pattern you see in other games as well?

No, I found her frustration towards me genuine and had a townread independent of meta. I looked her newbie game to double-check whether it was possible that she could fake it as scum and whether it looks different when she does it as scum.

As it happens, I called her town in the one game we've played, not too long after she replaced in on day 1. I went back and looked. I couldn't really tell if being townread by me at that point got her back up, but she was scumreading my slot for other reasons. Buldermar can be a little abrasive.

[sangres]

duck duck goose I think? Idk it was during the summer

Hey, I played in that game!

Party pooper. With that, I have solid townreads on TIP and ETL.

Sorry, I didn't want ETL to have a heart attack.

that was not the point of my observation but rather to push Sangres to give their opinion.

Our opinion on ETL? We already did that; she's town.

Sorry I'm being nonsensical
I just want purple rose dead and d2 to happen

Why?

^ I really don't like this post either. I am discussing my reads with ETL who is a townread of mine. After all, part of the point of trying to get townreads is to sync up and discuss reads.

Is there a reason you haven't decided to sync up with us?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Is there a reason you haven't decided to sync up with us?

I want to. In fact, the one thing that most excited me about this game was to be town in a game where you two are town. But I am bad at reading you and ffery's posts are terrible.

[The Purple Rose]

It's funny that you are "pissed off about people's laziness" when, besides TiP, you've been the only other unhelpful player. You had to be asked multiple times by multiple people to justify your read on TiP before you came up with 243. So, you really don't have a leg to stand on with calling other people lazy. You didn't even join the thread until long after the rest of us here had a dialogue going.

And 243 said the same thing in two lines what 193 did in one. Which got within five minutes a bit all caps post that I should stop deflecting. At which point I'm indeed starting to question whether you are actually reading the game or that the only thing about 193 that caught your eye was the fact that I used your name.

actually.

It's the same as your response to bulba's post about f-16. You say agree and then show you still don't get it. It's not particulary hard, we were hardly the only ones that got it, including f16 himself. But you are contrary there. It's the same around the tip case. You simply do not get the lines of thought. I think the thing that frustrates me when talking to you is that your mindset is different. You simply do not think as town.

vote etl

I don't see this vote changing anytime soon.


@F-16, I don't say you are bad. I specifically avoided saying that. You posted a lot and there were good intentions around that, but at the time of my post I didn't care too much about that. The way you post invites votes though, it's not very smooth. That's fine. What I didn't think was fine was that it moved you towards the default wagon people could agree on if their first choice failed, which was what I was seeing and which I thought was a bad thing. It doesn't say a lot in terms of vote analysis, the fact that a big portion of the town agrees without all that many reasons around means scum are bound to be among them, and a wagon that around the start of day one is favored by scum is likely to be on town. Scum will try to avoid having the default wagon end up on one of them, there's no good reason for it since there are enough candidates to end up as a lynch d1 generally.

So I kind of said everything I though in that post already. I didn't white knight you because you are a bad player, or because I liked your posts particulary. I found in necessary to say that the way the rest was moving around you made you likely town and that it would be a bad idea to keep going like that.

Further, I don't see the need for anything more then that I didn't like his reactions and that it started with post 14. Which was indeed what I posted.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

UNVOTE:
I am not too sure about Purple Rose anymore. I am null at this point.

Nacho, where are you at regarding your reads? Do you still think Pitoli is scum? If so why?

[Bulbazak]

Rose, ETL's inability to grasp what is being said is not indicative of her being scum. It's a comprehension issue, not an alignment one.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You're terrible. Really. You say I don't have a "town mindset" but you don't explain why. You say you think I'm dumb because I don't get things (so you say) and apparently believe that makes me scum, according to your vote. And you're kind of an asshole. So I'm blacklisting you effective now.

VOTE: TPR

[Bulbazak]

Rose, ETL, can we stop the mutual OMGUS now? You're both pretty. If you were to exclude each other, who do you think is scum?