Mini 1515: Touhou Imperishable Night (Game Over)

[waynegg]

[zMuffinMan]

OK. i'm not very good at talking to retarded kids, but i'll try my best to be understanding. let's try something else.

is there anything outside me "buddying" varsoon that makes you think i'm scum?

and is there anything outside that one quote by thezmon that makes you think thezmon scum?

is BRO a town read now?

[waynegg]

I'm dropping hints that I don't interact with scum reads. And somehow I'm the retarded one...

[Mac]

friends i lub u allo

Sup?

i believe i have a lot of drunken love for everyone in this game

YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME

(i will have more game related content soon. if yoy guys could cool it, that would be amazing)

[pieguyn]

The 180-190 range is around where the VvWayne argument takes place. Basically, Varsoon called you scum, and then wayne called Varsoon scum for the same reason Varsoon called you scum, even though the way the two of you played out the argument was different. Then, the two got into a brief argument about diction, which I found extremely retarded.

yeah, I took that to mean all this was part of his plan to get Varsoon's attention, which is why I'm pretty sure if it's really legitimate there's scum attacking him for it (they wouldn't read into it enough to get what he's really doing). however, I'm not sure that his reason for attacking zmuffin is correct.

@pie: I don’t remember you mentioning muffin or Varsoon independently, however. Can you tell me what you think of them? I suggest reading through your argument with him, but try taking a different angle at it (not necessarily that other people are saying TvT), because when people get into heated debates with others, and get an indication of scum early on, it’s common for them to succumb to conf bias (which leads to these TvT arguments), so retrospect reading helps.

I have literally no idea on muffin. gut leans town, but I haven't formally sorted him yet.

after rereading the argument with Varsoon, I guess the main thing I originally disliked about him was this

I don't like zmon's level of activity coupled with his lack of serious content and I really don't like the moves made in 85 and 83.

he didn't give any specific reason for disliking the moves zmon was making, and instead just gave a vague statement. that's why I said he was "opportunistic as fuck". then when I pressured him he said this

Or a proper evaluation of play and agreement with the currently building wagon in a way that simultaneously puts pressure on the slot but doesn't put it in danger of being a lynch?

just saying "I don't like xxx" hardly counts as a "proper evaluation" IMO. trying to pass that off as a proper evaluation made me think he was just looking for an easy way onto the wagon. then this

I'm not following you here. So, despite not taking part in RVS, you think I'm eager to be on a wagon?
And that having legitimate reasons for being on a wagon is scummy?

I don't see how the idea how he's not eager to be on wagon directly follows from not taking part in RVS. and again, he had no legitimate reasons, only a vague "I don't like this".

nothing after that makes me want to change my read on him. mb I overrate redirecting onto other people as a scumtell, but the sequence of actions I posted in my tl;dr case would make sense as scum. looking back on it, his frustration seemed genuine, but I still don't know if it's genuine town or genuine scum.


@wayne: are you townreading me?

[waynegg]

Yep.

[waynegg]

Pie. 4 pages in is well within the threshold of Varsoon random voting and flaky reasoning. He's gone to page 10 or so doing that. That's normal from him and won't be anything that'll get him lynched.

[waynegg]

Morph, have you gotten what you were looking for yet?

[zMuffinMan]

don't sign up to games i'm in again, wayne.

if you're scum and consider doing what you're doing a tactic, then you're a dickhead. and if you're actually town, then you're legitimately the worst player i've played with on this site. worse than saki. worse than even deitykabuto, and he set the bar pretty fucking low.

[waynegg]

Why are you getting so worked up? I intentionally don't interact with my scum reads. Ever. You call me retarded. I smile. You call me a dickhead, I still smile. And wonder. Why get so worked up over a game?

[waynegg]

Don't get me wrong. I don't appreciate the insults, but that's all on you. I wish you wouldn't take it so personally that I don't jump just because you say frog, but again, that's not me. Simmer down, play the game, and accept that not everybody is going to just mind you. That's really poor sportsmanship guy. You should really be ashamed to be like that.

[zMuffinMan]

yeah that's bullshit. you spent most of your time in xenogears interacting with AJ despite scum reading him from your replacement, and you were scumreading me there and still interacting with me in that game. e.g. this post where you both interact with me and call me scum, or this post shortly after it. you also interacted with ghostlin, and other people you were supposedly scum reading.

you need to die.

Unvote
Vote: waynegg

[waynegg]

Wow! A couple of isolated examples from someone with confirmation bias ~ at best. Who'd a figured?

[zMuffinMan]

you want me to go through your whole Xenogears ISO and quote every time you interacted with a scum read, you lying piece of shit?

OK. mission accepted.

[waynegg]

And whats it called when you go on about how bad someone that's voting for you stinks at this game and then use that as your reasoning for voting them? I forgot...

[pieguyn]

And whats it called when you go on about how bad someone that's voting for you stinks at this game and then use that as your reasoning for voting them? I forgot...

how come this doesn't count as interacting with a scumread?

where do you draw the line about "interacting"? 0.0

[zMuffinMan]

how come this doesn't count as interacting with a scumread?

where do you draw the line about "interacting"? 0.0

ignore the obvious contradiction, he's lying.

[waynegg]

Retarded...
Dickhead...
Lying piece of shit...

and please do that. Next week when you get through reading each and every one of my 5,479,251 posts in that game and deciding if I was truthfully scum reading someone or not and then linking to your orgy of evidence, it'll be moot. Have fun with that. Make sure you bring a canary with you. Those tunnels are known to have areas of low oxygen levels. Just looking out for your safety

[waynegg]

And whats it called when you go on about how bad someone that's voting for you stinks at this game and then use that as your reasoning for voting them? I forgot...

how come this doesn't count as interacting with a scumread?

where do you draw the line about "interacting"? 0.0

Answering their questions and giving them reasons to refute. What you quoted is toying with someone. Completely different.

[zMuffinMan]

i think you're being deliberately unhelpful in this game because morph pointed out some meta thing they have on you, and you're paranoid about what it is, so you're trying to emulate whatever you think that meta thing they have on you is.

any insults i threw your way came after you were being deliberately unhelpful, so don't act like that has anything to do with it.

i literally don't have to put that much effort into multiquoting your interactions with scum reads when you spent half the game interacting with scum reads, wayne.

Spoiler:

Wayne, pretty sure those aren't cop claims, they're clears for other reasons. Let's not get the claims out quite yet if players aren't ready unless you think you've got a "guyinfreezer is soooo PR" kind of vibe going on again.

It's not that. Mastin blatantly claimed Cop and then cleared Venrob. There was no reading between the lines. Muttley actually had 2 shots instead of the one he claimed and shot AJ last night. AJ is still alive, hence the bulletproof.

And yeah, lets kick scum butt and perhaps work on the friend thing in the process.

I don't see a reason for you to want to out AJ's role, tbf.

~

@NS: I'll get to your comment in a second.

When and hiw rarely have you ever seen town BP? There's already been suspicion on the AJ slot and I see no reason to not make the result public for others to chew on.

'If Skull is scum' is crazy weak for the theory we have here.

Thez, I know. I think Rach is the ideal lynch. All the major roots extend from her, and she hasn't proven anything useful. Mala will be incriminated, I get my lynch, and we then proceed to wreck the scum team.

AJ ~
Just two questions.

What's your definition of "to incriminate"?

Why were you bulletproof N2?

I personally prefer lexical definitions, and as such: To make one appear guilty of a specific crime.

Then, can you explain this?

Whenever I read wayne's posts, I find myself asking, "is he confused, or am I?"

Im not confused. Been reading and taking notes since the game started

Mala, Ghost is town.

Why?

Because WE said so.

I'm specifically asking Andy why he thinks that because I'm not on the same page. Nor do I believe you're town, so I'll wait for Andy, but thanks.

Mastin, why is Venmar town?

Because he is. That's as much as you're getting, and as much as you're ever getting.

Yeah. Not a good answer

This requires another spoiler. Inside, I have responses to FTL, Muffin, and kinda Mac...

Where's the love AJ?

___________________________________

Fixing the format

Why is AJ town?

I'm going with Thezmon's read on him which I think them playing offsite he would know how to read him better than the rest of it. Along with the fact AJ's been chasing down me along with others. I do think he's solidly town

So, you

are

scum...

No. I think he's town because he's hunting whether or not he's on the wrong or right rack. He's hunting.

~

I'm done replying to Mastin or Bro. They won't even knowledge that I might be a little town.

I haven't done just all AtE. I have given reads out if you like them or not, I have been hunting whether or not you disagree with it.

How is taking shots at a popular punching bag and paraphrasing what others have previously said and tunneling hunting?

That struck me that you were using Rach's scumminess to make it appear that Mala is scum (e.g. lining up lynches). Based on your definition, that's still how it comes across. "To make one appear guilty" isn't the same as "almost certainly guilty". To make someone

appear

to be guilty is more along the lines of framing someone whereas the other reflects more of a personal view. Pretty confident you're scum based off this. Using euphemisms like this to soften intent is pretty common when under pressure. If you're scum, I hope you don't feel like scum caught for the wrong reasons...

More AJ votes please.

Lol!

a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be too harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing.

How is what you quoted a euphemism?

I'm not arguing semantics. I'm saying that when you told me what the phrase meant to you, you said it was to make someone

appear

to be guilty. When applied to your statement you used a euphemism, "almost certainly guilty", to soften that. Now when called out for euphamizing your statement, you say you're using evidence (though what you pointed to really isn't evidence) to incriminate. And then you quote a statement of mine and call it a euphemism when it isn't, for what purpose I have no idea.

I'm not arguing semantics at all. I'm pointing out what you did that shows to you being lying about your intentions.

@AJ

One more question, please. It may seem silly, but I really need to know why you chose the Rubix Cube as your long term Avi?

Noooooooo! Multi format fail! Noooooooo!Third time the charm?

I'm a one shot bullet proof townie, who actively tried to get shot night 1 to remove that benefit.

Say we take that for your honest intentions. Why do you have less posts than bork (92 to his 94 now and 47 compared with his 54 D1 isolated)? If you were really trying to draw that kind of attention, it seems you would have been more engaged than that and done more than just

'Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!'

'Mala, Mala, Mala!'

.

And what others have said...

I wanted to remove any ambiguity because I had/have strong reasons to believe a traitor exists in this game...

...this makes no sense at all.


Now to tie it all in with why I was asking about ole Rubix. You're playing with a mathematical certainty. D1 had no pressure for you and you posted 1.9%, yesterday and today you're facing some questioning and posting 2.6%. Both of those numbers reflect posting just enough to seem active but stay mostly invisible. Also, you are playing very guarded. Pushing Mala is a low risk play to make because so many are doubting her, you blend right in even while pushing. The whole sum of your play lends itself to a scum optimal coefficient, whether by default or design.[/quote]

i have something fun to claim

i'm Dominia Yikzor and i'm an inquisitor for the nissan alliance.

i had a cop power, but if I got 2 innocents, i lost the power. venmar investigated mac and tiphainedeath and got innocents on both, so I lost the cop power

I'm confused

The Inquisitor is a self-aligned role with aspects of both the Serial Killer and the Cult Leader. Its Night Action is simply its factional kill (like a Serial Killer); however, if for some reason the Inquisitor's victim survives the kill, the victim will instead have its alignment changed to match that of the Inquisitor. In this sense, it is a Serial Killer that has a chance to pick up allies.
The existence of an Inquisitor usually suggests that there are multiple protective abilities in play during the game so as to allow the possibility of recruitments.
As always, care should be taken with recruitment, as Inquisitor is generally able to recruit Anti-Town players and recruited players keep their former abilities. For more information, see Cult. The recruited players do not gain access to the factional kill if the Inquisitor dies.

Even more interesting with Venmar's PGO claim. Please help me out of this confused state...

But inquisitor isn't cop. It's a factional kill and alignment changer. Mason also doesn't make them both town.

Flavor isn't really indicative of roles... Look at Andrius' flip (I'm not quite sure what her role was, but it wasn't standard).

15. RachMarie, Krelian,

Mad Scientist of the Solaris Empire

, was lynched Day 1.
17. Sound of Silence, Seraphita,

Vanilla Townie of the Nisan Alliance

, was killed Night 1.
11. Saki, Sigurd Harcourt,

Vanilla Townie of the Nisan Alliance

, was killed Night 1.
13. nickthename, Maria Balthasar,

Vanilla Townie of the Nisan Alliance

, was lynched Day 2.
3. BeautyAndTheBeast, Emeralda Kasim,

Vanilla Townie of the Nisan Alliance

, was killed Night 2.
12. Malakittens, Miang Hawwa,

Ancient Seductress of the Solaris Empire

, was lynched Day 3.
9. mastin2, Bartholomew Fatima,

Pirate Regent of the Nisan Alliance

, was killed Night 3.

1. Andy hasn't flipped.

2. Who's talking about flavor?? I'm talking about roles. Everything bolded was their role, not their flavor.

Mad Scientist= assigns passive roles
VT= duh
Ancient Seductress= Roleblocker and 1x redirect
Pirate Regent= Mason and 1x JK

An Inquisitor is a defined role, which is factional kill and cult leader. All you peeps trying to make it sound like I'm talking about flavor are pushing wifom.

pedit solidly, huh?

The vast majority of scumbags aren't Batman villains, Varsoon.

Crumbs can be found on Venmar's first post of the day on days 2 and 3. Spoiler: they're not subtle, at all.
Day 2: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5269791
Day 3: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5309208

And scum didn't NK the slot because... I mean, I know its in scum's best interest to leave town investigative roles in the game and all, so if you have an explanation that would be nice to share...

also, if you want, i can go back over venmar's posts and point out all of the places he crumbed his role. i have most of them already because i pmed bork about it N2 when i ranted to him about my thoughts on the game. i am very sure that he was either what he claims to be, or he's factional scum (i.e. not a traitor) who planned it with his partners. and i'm leaning towards the former based on his play making sense as town and also based on how fucking elaborate it would have to be for venmar to have co-ordinated that as factional scum.

Given the crumbs you linked in 4380, how would this be remotely "elaborate" to do as scum? Let me illustrate...

Venmar... Hey gaiz, I'm gonna crumb investgatr so blatantly noonez can miss it. Before suspicion getz on me we snuffz one of my "innocents" to givez me to get town credz.

The other scumz... Yayz. Gud planz!!!

And scum didn't NK the slot because... I mean, I know its in scum's best interest to leave town investigative roles in the game and all, so if you have an explanation that would be nice to share...

because he claimed PGO and scum ignored the obvcrumbs. see AJ's response to the revelation today, for example.

ONE OF HIS OBV CRUMBS WAS TO CONSIDER HIM TO BE CLAIMING LIKE MATTP, AKA LYING ABOUT HIS ROLE. Try again...

it's elaborate because (1) why PGO claim at all? if the aim was to drop cop crumbs, why was a PGO claim necessary? (2) there could have actually been a real cop, and considering how blatant those crumbs are, he'd need to explain it (3) why venmar instead of a stronger scum player? (4) it was risky because PGOs are potential policy lynches like millers (though policy lynching isn't all that common anymore) (5) he would have had to tell his scum buddies about it, and have them tell antihero about it, etc etc

you're actually a moron if you think this is more likely to come from scum than town.

1. I covered that in my Venmar spoiler ~ KEEP TOWN PR AWAY AT NIGHT.

2. Great, then scum would know real cop D1 from cc.

3. Your question answers itself. If he's found out, he dies and the stronger scum lives.

4. I've never seen PGO policy lynched and only twice on Millers. Not that risky because I've seen that play a lot.

5. Scum QT, one whole sentence. It's not as complicated as you're trying to make it sound...

My small list of suspicion:

1. Aj The Epic
4. BROseidon
7. Ghostlin
20. Antihero
21. zMuffinMan

you're actually a moron if you think this is more likely to come from scum than town.

And this by itself...

A one for one on a cop isn't quite the same as a one for one on other roles. Since you didn't have any disagreement with the other points I'll just assume you're 80% wrong

2. Great, then scum would know real cop D1 from cc.

this is so fucking moronic it's not even funny. scum never want a 1 for 1 trade, especially early game, and especially not when there could be protective roles. holy shit.

the rest of your responses aren't much better. your reasoning is that you can think of an absurd situation in which he would do it as scum, so therefore he could be scum. if you're not policy lynching PGO claims sooner or later, then you're not playing correctly, and if the fucking idea was to use PGO as a fucking cover against town PRs then him claiming today makes no sense.

i shouldn't have to explain the fucking obvious. and now i'm going to sleep.

Oh so some weak rebuttal? Ok.

It's only absurd if you think scum play with no strategy, because this is a very simple straight forward strategy with little thought necessary to pull it off.

I'm not going to take advice on the wrong and right ways to play from someone who is 80+% wrong! especially when more and more I think you're scum. Even on a hypothetical PL on a conf town PGO (note HYPOTHETICAL WITH BIG FLASHY LIGHTS SO YOU CAN MISS IT BECAUSE I DONT BELIEVE THATS THE CASE HERE) reals of scumotivation.

It would make perfect sense if the replacement read my Venmar spoiler where I shot that claim to hell and back. In fact, it would be a knee jerk, "well crap, now I gotta claim something and hope everyone buys it" because I gave great reasoning not to believe the claim and a fake claim always looks bad. As town I would have expected the replacement to keep mum because who gives a flip what a single player thinks. As scum I would expect him to do exactly what he did ~ give another claim before anyone latched onto the evidence I put forward.

1. Aj The Epic
4. BROseidon
7. Ghostlin
20. Antihero
21. zMuffinMan

Why are Nacho and Desp not in this list?

But not Andy? Hmm. Nacho because I've never felt he was scum. My last list just consisted of the lynch pool of those people weren't saying was confirmed. Desp because I forgot. Think that's a slip right there BRO.

wayne ignoring nacholynch makes me suspicious

Vote: nachomamma

this should happen
unless you want to lynch me first and figure this out the hard way

So you think AJ is town?

I don't have anything new to contribute.
So this is me posting.
Nacholynch pls.

If you can show me where and why Nacho is scum, and it makes sense. I don't see it.

So

AJ
BRO
Andy

Does anyone think there's six scum?

That would be a waste if you're town. But it kinda sounds like a challenge. Always like a challenge. Tell you what...if you get run up to L-1 I'll call your bluff.

*He's been underwhelming all game. By Day 4, I expect some kind of push. In Xenosaga he was all over the place. Here..he makes a few points here or there, but he's not steering, nor is he leading from anywhere. This isn't Nacho--at least not Town Nacho.

*There are some who have said 'give Nacho time and he'll pick up'. It's Day 4. If he's not producing now (and he's not) he's not gonna.

*This one's difficult to follow, but here goes:

Nacho, quite publicly, caught me as scum because I can't fake logical Town thought well

. He's hedged his bets (particularly with his interactions with Mastin, but even how he's treated people like me who he's said earlier he wanted to 'interact more with' and really hasn't) and he's produced low enough content to kinda squeak by.

*The AJ/BRO/Des case is an excellent example of all the above. Nacho can make a weak non-committal push without a case. As Town, even lazy Town, Nacho has no reason not to release the case. As scum, he has reason to hold off to see if his wagon will dissolve and we'll bite. I'm 90% sure he's bussing one buddy there for cred, and 75% sure sure he's bussing both for cred. In fact, if scum don't cross bus they'll die.

*Nacho has made the argument that he's done nothing that would indicate he was scum. The reverse is painfully also true. There's nothing to indicate that Nacho's town, either. It's a hollow and somewhat misleading argument by someone who I expected to be higher key and give a shit, and has promised to give a shit multiple days now.

*This is not a reason why I think Nacho is scum. However, a number of people if you analyze the night kills knew Nacho's playstyle. The remaining two with history I know about are myself and Andrius. Now, my problem with this 'argument', is it leads to an orgy of evidence wifomic problem. (Look up 'orgy of evidence' in TVTropes). Scum could be killing people with a history with Nacho to make us fucking look there, but Nacho's still a good lynch DESPITE that. Or even BECAUSE of it.

Ok, so all the purple is the same reason ~ he's been apathetic. Problem with that is in all his recent games I've read he's been apathetic.

The last one is meta (which is still pretty much the apathetic thing), and I'll give that a lot of people are 100% sold on meta. I'm not one of those because what do you do when someone's playstyle changes drastically? And then an orgy of evidence usually indicates just the opposite of what that evidence seems to point to.

Iffy meta and apathy given his recent games aren't enough to sway me from the town read virtually all of his posts on Aug 20th, among others, have firmly planted in my mind.

The bold really needs to be explained though...

That would be a waste if you're town. But it kinda sounds like a challenge. Always like a challenge. Tell you what...if you get run up to L-1 I'll call your bluff.

Girls, girls. You're both fucking pretty.

Seriously, neither of you are scum, and it's a fucking waste either way. Andy, you know Wayne's into fringe theory from the 'saga game. Wayne, Andrius isn't scum. Fuck, I'm not scum. Run me up to L-1, and I guarantee no one in this town will fucking lynch me.

I've had Andy town since I started reading D1 (though his first wall glows with the same glow as his first in LotR), but I'm not going to back down from a challenge. If he's town and wants to take another townie down with him, let it be on his head.

Now a legit reason from this game to see some scum in him (aside from his first wall since as I said I don't weigh meta heavily). He claims to have a veng role that can kill only town while being town. I can see that. What I can't see is him going on with the 'lynch me!' campaign knowing that if he's telling the truth, scum would never hammer because it would out them. That means ONLY town would risk lynching him if they think he's lying. That leads into motivation.

From a town mindset, where's the motivation to continue his self push? Why would he be pushing to take a town with him if he's really town? It's only his recent stuff that's seemed scummy enough for me to hammer if he gets to L-1 and call his bluff.

@Andrius

I see what you're saying now. Like I said, I've had you as town since D1. Please don't give me a reason to lose faith...

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Pretty sure that's L-1

why AJ, nacho? at best, he's bulletproof scum. at worst, he could be bulletproof town.

why not, say, Desperado, if you really believe the scum team is full of PRs? he could have an active PR that would, in some way, fuck with town.

Because AJ is all but confirmed scum and POE will be better tomorrow

VOTE: AJ

If you want a claim out of me, get town to run me up to L-1.

Your plan is bad and you should feel bad.

What plan is that?

To have me claim so that FTL could see if I'd lie about whether I'm vanilla when there's a vanilla cop in play.

You sure it's not a scum bussing plan that was hatched in your QT and that there was some sort of disagreement with?

And how stupid do you think I fucking am if the answer to the first question is Yes?

Scum never say anything like that

@Andy

You've mentioned the bane of playing with no avatar a couple of times and I'm pretty sure no one has asked you about that. Why no avatar?

And this is has to do with this game...?

Apparently. This is the only game I'm playing with him

I feel like Randy did it better

Also booze

Grr! I can't believe I missed the Randy Savage!

I feel like Randy did it better

Also booze

ebwop: actually, it's not just the possibility that RM's role interfered with town roles in some way. RM's role

did

interfere with town roles in some way. we just aren't sure how at the moment.

Umm...she was lynched day one...you have some explaining to do because there's been no indication she was able to do anything.

Walk me through what here says "I know the traitor is on the scum side"

It's the only thing that makes sense where a supposed BP is told, in no unequivocal terms, that a Traitor exists in this game. I wast told there was a Traitor in this game. Was anybody else told there was a Traitor in this game? Stinks of something the informed minority might know, but other than that...

Let's try something...

@bork: would you be so kind as to spoiler a role or two in this game to me as well, other than mafia/scum, VT, and what's already flipped? Pretty please

nacho might be town if aj scumflips.

Don't think like that.

I'll carry that torch for you tomorrow if you fall!

4193
Faith shattered

VOTE: Andy

Oh yes, that incredibly town-looking counterwagon...

Hey Wayne, I'm gonna be fairly absent until Thursday/Friday. I have some stuff I want to bounce off of you.

I'm in, if I'm still in.

i was going to make a post about how much you've been had this game, waynegg

And see, that's the beautiful thing about how play. I lead without looking like it. Since I've replaced in, I've lead 2 scum lynches from my D1 reads, all while looking like I wasn't doing anything. Kinda like I'm doing right now.

Bro

The fact that you've been in both of my scumgames and think that I'm scum here is baffling to me...

You always look the same to me so I've given up trying to actually read you. POE suggests you as scum. Nothing to do with your posting.

So, what did you want to talk about?

lol @ you thinking you led the Mala lynch.

Mala was obvscum from long before you replaced in (was obvscum from nhammen's first post, but I digress...), and it was mollie who prevented that lynch from going through day 2. Y'know, before you replaced in.

You get the bulk of the credit for Aj, though.

pedit: I wanted to talk to you about Anti and FTL. I'm about to go to sleep, though. Like I said, busy through Thursday, can't really stick around for immense amounts of time.

As far as Mala goes, yes she was already a sinking ship. Doesn't mean I didn't push her (in that special way where I do the opposite when I see no one wants to work with me, but I digress). I feel FTL. Until today I didn't really feel anti. His recentness is really bad though. I have D1 on both, but Venmar went back and forth across my list.

When are you gonna be around on Thursday? Well make a date.

Wayne I realized that our date is stupid. I've already said all I have to say about the Anti slot, and us talking about the likelihood of a gambit at this point is dumb.

VOTE: Desp

Ok

VOTE: BRO

So, I have no reason to not think antihero is scum.

except for the godfather and the crumbs and clearing two townies

Explain better. I don't know what you're talking about.

I like Venmar quite a bit, actually

And a cop with gf just wifom'd the town, so I can see a mod wifoming the scum. Like I said, Nacho can be lynched without. E.

Scum clear town all the time. I've never been in or read a game where they didn't. Great for town cred.

But, let's just go with your reasoning Nacho. Why are we on you and not FTL?

Yeah, so,ermines it doesn't. I totally agree with that. But I know my D1 reads are in general better than at any other point in the game. TF (cabd) can describe to you how I work.

so... what... you think it's a sign of weakness to admit your thought process might have lead you to the wrong conclusion?

...and don't think that I'm judging you here, either. This is a widely held belief that few people will admit to having. I myself fall into this trap. frequently.

Nope. I flaw more than I hit. But Ihjt scum 40ish% which is still solid. Yours isn't the only name left from D1. It's just at the top.

Promise.

What kind of scum game is it that votes off his entire team?

Promise.

What kind of scum game is it that votes off his entire team?

I promise you that Antihero is town.

That's fine. I said it was personal. I'll just be quiet and hammer. Tell me who and when.

UNVOTE:

pedit ok Andy VOTE: BRO

yeah, but once you put aside all the paranoia, all the PR claims make sense.

Andy claiming supersaint and then inviting people to lynch him? not likely a scum move, especially given that it's actually still on the table

Cue paranoia.

How perfect of a scum claim would it be for Andy to claim exactly what he claimed as scum. TSS that only vengeful a on town? Perfect sense for town to not lynch. Perfect sense for scum to leave hi in the game. Perfect claim if he can sell it, which apparently he has. Perfect. Andy does the unexpected often. See LotR. He came with straight up scum agenda that only third party would clearly pick up on, thus outing them. Do you have any idea how hard I had to work to get THAT lynch to go through.

I want to discuss the motivation behind Andy's claim before we end this day.

UNVOTE:

TSS that only vengeful a on town? Perfect sense for town to not lynch.

he claimed supersaint at 14 people alive, which is literally "lynch me I'm a free lynch"
it would be the worst scum fakeclaim i've seen in my entire life.

How would it be the worst? He conditioned it with taking a townie with him if town hammered and leaving scum alive if scum hammered. That takes the incentive out of the town to lynch him. That also gives incentive for scum to keep him alive. I'll take bro at his word to hammer if it gets there.

VOTE: Andy

execute same plan tomorrow.

I would be hammering Andrius tomorrow.
Both things have the same result.

If Andy scum: Andy gets to live untouched.

Until tomorrow, when we lynch him.

The two things are completely equal.

Except you could renig for *reasons* or have been killed, etc. today we have bro who will be speed lynched if he doesn't follow through on hammer. Andy WIFOM is gone and we get to odd numbers.

Andy is very likely town thanks to his claim and his play. BRO is not as likely town.

And wouldn't that just seal his fate tomorrow without it hanging on a m/l to XYLO? I realize you and Andy decided early on to go out in a blaze of glory with each other and all, but the lynch Andy to get nacho just makes more sense. And notscience is voting BRO...

even if you claim half of these aren't interactions with scum reads, you spent a lot of time interacting with them. but i tried to make sure to pick out quotes from players you

said

you were scum reading, or had in your scum lists. there are others i probably could have pointed to as well, but i left out interactions with players before you claimed a scum read on them (e.g. interactions with me after you'd just replaced in)

you even made a date with BRO to discuss things when you were apparently scum reading him at the time.

[zMuffinMan]

also i only said you're a dickhead

if you're scum

so it's kind of lol you're making a big deal out of that

[zMuffinMan]

Morph, have you gotten what you were looking for yet?

why are you so overly concerned about some meta thing they have on you.

and yes, i'm totally aware you can't answer this post or my last 2 posts without contradicting yourself, so hey, isn't that funny?

[waynegg]

No, I'm pointing out the personal insults that have no call for this or any other game. I'm pointing out that you're provoking me, while at the same time not biting on that. Ive been working on not being that way with people, because I have been in the past and every time I read back over them later, I feel like an ass. I haven't been perfect, but I've been a lot better.

I pointed it out because you really should be ashamed for taking that kind of low road over something as trivial as this game. It's infantile.

Look up "orgy of evidence" and then look at your wall again.

Accept it, don't, I don't care. I have nothing to lose here. You wanna wagon me, choochoo!

Lol! Who said I'm concerned about any meta thing they have on me? You know nothing Jon Snow!

[zMuffinMan]

i don't particularly care if it's infantile (although i'd argue that most infants probably don't have those words in their vocabulary, so you're wrong about that). you're deliberately being a prick in this game, and i

know

it has nothing to do with "interacting with scum reads" because you do interact with people you're scum reading (or at least you did, several times, in xenogears). so there must be some other reason you're being deliberately unhelpful and avoiding answering my questions, and i think it has to do with some meta thing you're worried about (which you've now brought up twice, first in 374 then again in 507). i think you being deliberately unhelpful here is part of you trying to emulate whatever it is you think morph sees in town-you that they weren't previously seeing here.

but whatever. i'm going to step away from this game for a while and cool down.

i probably shouldn't have called you a retarded lying piece of shit, but meh.

[waynegg]

Jeezus! Do you not see the difference between me taking the lead on my scum reads (ala having them answer

my

questions and

me

directing the conversation) and me being lead by them? Everything you quoted was one of two things.

1. Me leading the conversation

or

2. Me interacting with town reads

Ask cabd how often you can trust the lists I put in thread. I've played with exactly two other players who understand that tact. But you know what, I don't care of almost nobody else understands it. It works for me. Developing my reads. It doesn't have to work for you. And, fwiw, all these can be eliminated on principal from your orgy because they were solid D1 town reads

Nacho
Andy
You
Bro

Once you eliminate all those conversations, all that's left is quotes of me directing the conversation. So now what? What?