Mini 1515: Touhou Imperishable Night (Game Over)

[BROseidon]

really. this sucks, and I expect better from you cabd(?) - how many times does a fucking scumslip result in a scumlynch? (-50 points for whomever quotes varsoon in that mini game) having been lynched for a scumslip as town, you should probably try harder than that.

But that was hilarious ^_^

[BROseidon]

Onward as in basically vanilla N1 and then watcher from N2 until I die or the game ends.

Bork had a delayed PR in his last game. This makes sense as a role. Would also explain wanting people off you :/

VOTE: SSK

[zMuffinMan]

Bork had a delayed PR in his last game.

no he didn't?

[BROseidon]

Mac's JOAT was delayed.

[BROseidon]

Mac - Khan Wong, Possessed Warrior of the Nisan Alliance, was killed Night 7.

A Possessed Warrior is a delayed JOAT.

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, i totally missed that somehow. thought mac was a regular joat. that's actually a really cool role.

who do you think is scum (outside of ssk)?

[morph the cat]

pie displayed some fairly detailed knowledge of the LoTR game mechanics.

er btw this is wrong. he didn't display anything outside of what was probably a guess from reading the rules of the setup, and he was wrong about the mechanic for the most part.

i skimmed over the conversation earlier so i didn't notice it before, but yeah, this is plain wrong.

Then part of the basis for our read was wrong. I've been trying to make sense of his reaction to our vote ever since, so that actually kinda helps.

[morph the cat]

btw i'm pretty sure TNE is town here. or at least his play here is totally unlike the play from when i was scum with him.

I was also recently scum with him. Cabd was town in that game (Chef Mafia). I think it was the 3rd or 4th game I've played with him. In the others we were both town IIRC, except for hunterxhunterx. I've found that his play is very much dependent how much time he has for mafia. In general, looking back at earlier games that I didn't play but meta'd during the first game or two we played together, being (relatively) involved and serious about the game is associated with his scum play.

I'm going to review hunterxhunterx. The scum game we recently finished he only made 2-3 posts iirc and was the day 1 lynch.

[thezmon221]

UNVOTE: waynegg
The preemptive claim has me wondering what his rush was.
Also this:

Well, see, the last time he said something like that to me he wanted me to play bait to his fishing excursion. I resisted then not knowing what he was on about. This time I hop right on and wigglewigglewiggle and he abandons his rod. Looks like the bait caught the fisherman this time.

VOTE: Morph

interesting theory. how come you have just taken up on it though when it happened 300 posts ago?

as far as i can tell you have been reading morph as town, or at least interacting with them, then as soon as i've brought this up you are all over them?

Because in those games, Xeno particularly, I was able to figure it out after 80 pages of posting. FTL signed, and I figured out TF (can't remember if they sign).

right. so why did you not ask early on in that game (before 80 pages) or wait for 80 pages in this game?

Because I replaced in at about 60 pages and decided to catch up before posting real formalities and such.

Unless I'm remember incorrectly and it was a different game, not the Xeno game that recently ended.

It's been a long time since I've been engaged on this forum.

I still feel like there's some oddness to the way thezmon words stuff, and it worries me a little. I'm going to find some time to read other thezmon games today or tomorrow.

That's probably my kryptonite, just going to warn you. I have found myself to be consistent in wording things that make sense to me, but not to other people unless I've played with them a lot. And I don't have a ton of exposure to y'all, except maybe Nacho. It's why I get a lot of pressure on D1s almost all the time, and then hit a stride and start pulling weight. For lack of a better explanation.

But you might be better off just reading, if you want.

VOTE: thenewearth

-Honestly, apart from his rage against BRO, in Post 350, I haven't seen much value in his posts. Not to mention, he harps on BRO in said post for commentating, but does the same himself, except for that post.
-PoE
-I can't fathom how you guys got a legitimate scum read on MafiaSSK.

Oh yeah, and his reads list looks a lot like he's just going with the flow.

Spoiler:

And those 5 pages

Were pretty much nothing but insults and the likes.

So... >.>

I'd just leave this here.

BRO scumz
Ghostly Penguine Null-town because of his latest post
Mac null
SSK null
mastin gut-town
Morph town
pie town
psychlone town
tezmon null-scum
varsoon town
wayne scumz because of the exchange with muffinman
muffin town ^

TNE, can you elaborate on your scum reads? All three of them.

[mastin2]

I'm having a problem, this game. One moment, I'm seeing things from people which make them look scum, the next, look town. And I'm not seeing it from one or two people. From pretty much everyone. It's not "YOU'RE ALL SCUM!" or "THERE'S NO SCUM", because it's not happening simultaneously and in synch with one another, happening in phases. But it's still there, and still quite problematic. For instance...

So I've been hinting that I wasn't townreading you and you didn't respond at all.

This is actually much the same as my thoughts on morph. I don't have a townread, and this thought looked town.

In particular, I'm not liking morph's exchange with wayne. I don't know what the problem with wayne is; he looks like his town self to me.

I don't like this.
If you think a player is scum, you should go after them, regardless of their perceived strength.

this post pinged for me.

penguin_alien checking in here, antennae twitching, wings flapping in fewer than a dozen posts. mastin2, why vote for the player who is scummy versus the one who's probably scum?

Because I don't want to go 95% sure on you (specifically you) being scum only to later be forced to backtrack when the Ghostlin half of you begins towntelling.

Why would you worry so about retracting a blatantly joke read?

Town

5. mastin2 - interactions and early town reads, read going stale somewhat for Cabd (and ffery)

HEY, MASTIN! When you get back, my parenters fucking question. I need to know if you've turned into a cheeky scum fuck in my absence like you did in Micro 242.

Thanks, guys! Now, instead of dieing N1/N2, I'll be dieing N2/N3!



But seriously. I'm town. I didn't even mean to be, but I somehow became obvtown. I may not be obvtown enough to die immediately, and my reads are CERTAINLY not accurate enough for me to die immediately, but simply put, I'm practically a walking corpse with how dead I'm going to be. To the point where if I'm

not

dead before D4, something has gone horribly, HORRIBLY wrong.

To answer Bro--you haven't seen the full history, but you've seen part of it. In Xenogears, in fact. I wasn't townreading Nacho then, but his mislynch was almost a direct result of me pushing this heavily. Another aspect of it can be found in Chosen, where that same paranoia came in on D2.

To answer PA--my reads list and my response to it both seem like jokes, and were...but that doesn't mean there isn't some hidden depth to them. It's buried, but you can quite clearly see the subtext that I'm painting here, with predictions about the psychology of other players in relationship to the psychology of each other (myself included), how they work, their general experience, what I've seen of their games, and so on and so forth. Basically, while my comment looked like a joke, it was dead-serious in the effect that I predicted a scumread on you and a townread on Ghostlin, simply off of my experience playing with you two.

And, coincidentally enough, it actually came true. Dead serious. I'm scumreading you and townreading Ghostlin, with the townread on Ghostlin being ridiculously weak. I had no way of knowing that I was going to, before-hand. But I predicted as much, including in my response to you, how I would ultimately end up having trouble reading you. Overall, off of experience, I'm making the call that you two are town. But that call is violating every warning in my gut to do so. It's my head, screaming, "DAMMIT, MASTIN! STOP SCUMREADING THEM!" because I know it's bad to do when you're not scum, and while my gut's screaming that this game has you as scum, it also is screaming at me to listen to my experience, which would tell me that you're not scum.

As for the morph post--I didn't like it. It pinged my radar, but heck if I know what in their reads list felt off. (Actually, it mighta been this one. But it was one of the two for sure.)

pie could be scum, too. I'm not sure. (Probably not, now that I think about it.) Heck, I still don't like most of thezmon's posts, but overall, I'm basically concluding that thez is town because others I think look worse, others' interactions with thez don't look scum-scum, and I have a gut feeling that thez's posts here are closer to thez's towngame than to thez's scumgame.

Varsoon continues to look townish to me, but that's about as good as I can get on him. It's too early to be sure. In Xenogears, there's a lot of hindsight-wisdom with regards to him, where he pushed scum-motivated agendas. I could see those things being done, I can see them not having been done. At this point, too early to have any confidence one way or another, but I'm defaulting to town because that's what my gut's telling me.


...Like I said. I'm hardcore waffling on just about everyone.

VOTE: morph the cat.

[morph the cat]

As for the morph post--I didn't like it. It pinged my radar, but heck if I know what in their reads list felt off. (Actually, it mighta been this one. But it was one of the two for sure.)

One of these days, it will be scum-me and town-you in a game. When that eventuality occurs, I'll take heart that you're not rock solid at reading me. Yet, anyway.

[mastin2]

Besides, I feel pretty good someone will have my back.

If you had waited a day, then I would have had yours in-thread. You didn't need to claim, wayne. Considering most of the players suspicious of you have seriously pinged my radar, the wagon on you (and even if not "on" you, then supportive of it) looks ridiculously scum-driven. In the future, analyze your wagon before making claims.

[mastin2]

And by the way.

I'm totally going to go Bert on y'all and point out how we're wagoning easy players. (For the most part.)
TNE, not exactly a strong player.
MafiaSSK, not exactly a strong player.
Wayne, not exactly a charismatic player.

Among others. (There's probably more wagons I'm forgetting about.)

It's nothing condemning, but it's certainly concerning. I'm not seeing anything from TNE which pings me either way, quite frankly. And on SSK, there's nothing TO be pinged. But I fail to see how the lack of content is alignment-indicative from him.

[morph the cat]

And by the way.

I'm totally going to go Bert on y'all and point out how we're wagoning easy players. (For the most part.)
TNE, not exactly a strong player.
MafiaSSK, not exactly a strong player.
Wayne, not exactly a charismatic player.

Among others. (There's probably more wagons I'm forgetting about.)

It's nothing condemning, but it's certainly concerning. I'm not seeing anything from TNE which pings me either way, quite frankly. And on SSK, there's nothing TO be pinged. But I fail to see how the lack of content is alignment-indicative from him.

Cabd and I are going off experiential meta, mostly the Paradox Prime game with our read of MafiaSSK. We thought he was scum in that game, but turned out to be town. He posted a ton on "day 1" - the game mechanic had the game start at 3 player lylo endgame and then rush back to day 1. He wasn't one of the players that scum selected for their 3-player lylo game start. So, "day 1" was really the second game day, but the first where all players could participate.

If we were still futzing around in rvs-mode I wouldn't care about his participation level. But, there's a ton of data to analyze and interact with now.

[Varsoon]

And by the way.

I'm totally going to go Bert on y'all and point out how we're wagoning easy players. (For the most part.)
TNE, not exactly a strong player.
MafiaSSK, not exactly a strong player.
Wayne, not exactly a charismatic player.

Among others. (There's probably more wagons I'm forgetting about.)

It's nothing condemning, but it's certainly concerning. I'm not seeing anything from TNE which pings me either way, quite frankly. And on SSK, there's nothing TO be pinged. But I fail to see how the lack of content is alignment-indicative from him.

Hey, I said this too~

Mastin, can you elaborate a bit on your Morph read?

[mastin2]

1. BROseidon
3. Mac
4. MafiaSSK
6. Morph the Cat (fferyllt + Cabd)
9. thenewearth
13. zMuffinMan

For better or for worse, I'm focusing on the names in there a bit. Mac seems townish, I've got a gut feeling SSK and TEN are town, which'd narrow it down to {BRO, morph, zMuffinMan}, but that doesn't seem right at all. Soyeah. That's basically where I'm at right now. I know it sucks. I know it's not good. But it's what I've got.

[mastin2]

Mastin, can you elaborate a bit on your Morph read?

It's not so much that they feel like scum as it is that they don't feel like town. I'm reading their posts, and simply not seeing them as town-oriented. They seem more manipulative and scum-motivated than inquisitive, if that makes sense. They don't look like super-mega-scum at all; they've said a ton of stuff which is kinda townish. But overall, I'm not feeling them as town and am sorta-kinda feeling them as scum. It's weak. But as pathetic as it sounds, that weak read is probably my strongest scumread.

[morph the cat]

1. BROseidon
3. Mac
4. MafiaSSK
6. Morph the Cat (fferyllt + Cabd)
9. thenewearth
13. zMuffinMan

For better or for worse, I'm focusing on the names in there a bit. Mac seems townish, I've got a gut feeling SSK and TEN are town, which'd narrow it down to {BRO, morph, zMuffinMan}, but that doesn't seem right at all. Soyeah. That's basically where I'm at right now. I know it sucks. I know it's not good. But it's what I've got.

At least you're focusing on two players I had early concerns about. I'm not sure it's good to have dropped my guard on BRO and zmuffin a little since my first reads list, but I do like later stuff they've posted.

p-edit Ah. You're reacting to Cabd's gambiting. This time, I don't have to sort out whether it's coming from town or scum motivation.

[BROseidon]

Hey mastin, I have a present for you:

[BROseidon]

To answer Bro--you haven't seen the full history, but you've seen part of it. In Xenogears, in fact. I wasn't townreading Nacho then, but his mislynch was almost a direct result of me pushing this heavily. Another aspect of it can be found in Chosen, where that same paranoia came in on D2.

So you don't like going after strong players that you scumread early because you're afraid that you might mislynch them.

wat.

[BROseidon]

Am I following your logic correctly?

[thezmon221]

Hey mastin, I have a present for you:

Spoiler: Reducing space with a snip

Let's be honest here: When isn't this the case? I don't know if I have played a game with mastin as town where he

hasn't

waffled. It certainly was the case last Xeno game and he flipped town.

I'm totally going to go Bert on y'all and point out how we're wagoning easy players. (For the most part.)
TNE, not exactly a strong player.
MafiaSSK, not exactly a strong player.
Wayne, not exactly a charismatic player.

If you make me a case on morph, I'll consider it. For now, I think wayne might actually be town, and I'm not touching SSK with my vote until he gets his arse in here. PoE has me more-or-less on TNE. However, I consider you a townread of mine, and you are sending off some pretty decent vibes, so I feel that working together will be very beneficial.

[waynegg]

UNVOTE: waynegg
The preemptive claim has me wondering what his rush was.
Also this:

Well, see, the last time he said something like that to me he wanted me to play bait to his fishing excursion. I resisted then not knowing what he was on about. This time I hop right on and wigglewigglewiggle and he abandons his rod. Looks like the bait caught the fisherman this time.

VOTE: Morph

interesting theory. how come you have just taken up on it though when it happened 300 posts ago?

as far as i can tell you have been reading morph as town, or at least interacting with them, then as soon as i've brought this up you are all over them?

Thez can't be assed with reading since scum don't have a need for it.

[waynegg]

Besides, I feel pretty good someone will have my back.

If you had waited a day, then I would have had yours in-thread. You didn't need to claim, wayne. Considering most of the players suspicious of you have seriously pinged my radar, the wagon on you (and even if not "on" you, then supportive of it) looks ridiculously scum-driven. In the future, analyze your wagon before making claims.

If morph hadn't gotten on when they did, I would have remained silent until L-1. Given the player base in this game and cabd's perceived proficiency in reading me I think it was prudent this time. Sucks to not be able to use a first time role, but meh.

[morph the cat]

So how is it, wayne, that you haven't realized that none of the posts leading up to your claim were mine? The joke in response to muffin is my most recent post. And I don't recall professing to able to read you amazingly, you'll have to point out where I might have said that.