LastSurvivor, I'll think about Bulbazak but I am actually more interested in figuring out Sangres at this point. I'll get back to that after I check his other games.
I looked through the game and realized that the townread on Sangres I had wasn't as strong as before. There are certain things that make me lean town such as the investigation of Bulbazak and its follow-up which I think matches with what both heads would do as town. I'll try and read completed town and scum games of the Sangres hydra when I find time to do so.
ffery, here's what is bothering me about you. I'm trying to see you as town but there are too many unresolved problems for me to solidly read you as town:
Let's start with the last game we finished (
HPCOS). I initially scumread you but backed off for a major portion of the next day keeping you as null (mostly focussing on Nacho). Much later, we went back and forth about Toomai's meta which we both read. I pointed out my disagreements to you, and finally pulled up one of his scumgames and said that his behavior in HPCOS made it obvious that he was town. I also said in the dead thread that your read being off at that point was what finally convinced me beyond a doubt that you were scum. So, you know that discussing reads with me will help me gain an insight into your affiliation. As such, I see plenty of scum motivation in NOT discussing reads and avoiding me. I don't see the town motivation in refusing to discuss reads because there is no reason for you to make it more difficult for me to read you. It makes far more sense to synch up, push scumreads, and get scum lynched. Normally, I see going back and forth with you on meta-reads (or even non-meta-reads) as a pretty good tool to sort you out. In this game, your refusal to discuss any means I am left analyzing whether this refusal is town-motivated or scum-motivated. This is how the day went down:
1) You start slow and keep a low profile. You explained this by saying that you didn't get into this game until later which is understandable. It is also something I scumread you for initially. I'll grant that you took your time to get into this game as town.
2) I scumread you and talk about the read with ETL. You push back.
3) I say that I am willing to put aside my initial scumread and work with you (hopefully to see if we can get into a similar discussion as HPCOS which will help me determine your affiliation and sort you out).
4) You say you are not ready yet to discuss reads but that Nacho is.
5) Nacho comes out with a lot of good posts and reads that at that time, I agree with. We come to an understanding.
6) I still have lingering doubts about you and I later express paranoia of Nacho.
7) You come out with your reads-list, and later say that you have me in your "maybe town, but not willing to work with pile." I ask why and you actually quote a post I made AFTER you said this and say that that is the reason which doesn't actually make any sense. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed that you were just angry at being suspected.
8) I find a meta-tell that I realized that I could be mis-applying and back off and read you as town.
9) I make a large analysis post of Bulbazak's progression in his read on Pitoli. I am actually glad I made that analysis because I know I wasn't being conf-biased. I initially thought that it would prove him scum where as I came to the conclusion that he was town. I find that kind of analysis to be the best kind because I truly was working from a blank slate so I believe my read to be accurate. I asked for feedback (even specifically mentioning you because you were one of the people who had their votes on BBZack).
10) You keep your vote there, ask ETL and TRP a bunch of questions, don't even recognize that I made a huge analysis post and asked for your feedback. You almost act as if it wasn't even there.
Here are the issues that I want to see resolved: The recurring theme I see here is that each time I back off of suspecting you, and try to work together, you seem happy and move on. I never get the vibe that you actually want to sort things out or discuss reads in depth. I'd say that figuring out where reads overlap, where they don't and finding out why, is the most important thing since that's how we nail scum and lynch them.
Nacho
, if you are there, can you explain what is happening and what is the town motivation behind any of these behaviors?
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