Mini 1515: Touhou Imperishable Night (Game Over)

[borkjerfkin]

just pagetoppin' for the hell of it

[BROseidon]

However, I didn't like the 624 reasons for the vote, and made a note to bring that up with Cabd when we synch our reads. In the Wayne games I've read, I've found him to be plenty abrasive as town.

He was worse in LotR than any of the town games I've had with him.

[BROseidon]

Outside perspective... BRO ~ what do you think of the intro on that post you quoted right there?

I don't like the phrase, but it would indicate that he's nervous about me pointing out mastin's waffling. Makes a good associative tell, but doesn't seem scum motivated unless mastin is scum.

I'm talking about these and liespotting

Huh that's weird.

Ffery, what caused that? I

personally

don't see anything in my post that would change your stance,

personally

.

Honestly

, apart from his rage against BRO, in Post 350, I haven't seen much value in his posts. Not to mention, he harps on BRO in said post for commentating, but does the same himself, except for that post.

Let's be honest here[/b]: When isn't this the case? I don't know if I have played a game with mastin as town where he

hasn't

waffled. It certainly was the case last Xeno game and he flipped town.

I missed that, although I only looked at the thing you'd quoted when you asked me instead of his whole ISO.

[BROseidon]

That's called my weekend V/LA, BRO. Check my sig. It's been there for months.

I never noticed :/

[pieguyn]

if you answered it sry i'm tired as hell so i probably missed it

wondering, the vote was in 622 and he gave a specific reason immediately in 624. how is it you don't find too much trouble with the vote, even though you don't like the reason that was given at practically the same time?

[pieguyn]

@BROs:

can you plz explain why you seem to like jumping on wagons? first Varsoon, and then wayne.

[BROseidon]

And I'm perplexed that I'm your strongest scum read because I am not used to town-you getting my alignment this wrong.

Why aren't you considering the possibility that mastin's scum?

[BROseidon]

@BROs:

can you plz explain why you seem to like jumping on wagons? first Varsoon, and then wayne.

2 wagons in 25 pages is wagon hopping?

Wat.

[BROseidon]

err, 3 in thirty if you count me putting my vote on SSK.

[morph the cat]

And I'm perplexed that I'm your strongest scum read because I am not used to town-you getting my alignment this wrong.

Why aren't you considering the possibility that mastin's scum?

Why aren't you reading my posts?

[pieguyn]

I was thinking, you've jumped onto two wagons now citing nothing but meta. your jump on wayne was citing meta about being abrasive and it seems so similar to your jump on Varsoon citing meta about vote position because of this. also, both wagons seemed like points where there'd be a possibility of some big breakthrough happening. I was starting to full-out attack Varsoon when you jumped on him and your vote on wayne was near the start of the whole thing with him. I just wanna know if you have some sort of idea behind this or not?

[morph the cat]

if you answered it sry i'm tired as hell so i probably missed it

wondering, the vote was in 622 and he gave a specific reason immediately in 624. how is it you don't find too much trouble with the vote, even though you don't like the reason that was given at practically the same time?

He put a vote down on someone I was thinking was scum. VOTES on someone I think are scum are good. REASONS can be bad even if the vote itself fits my purposes, which are to find town to work with and find scum to lynch.

[Varsoon]

Liars overemphasize their truthfulness.

“To tell you the truth…” “Honestly…” “I swear to you…” Oh, if only it were so! When people use these bolstering statements to emphasize their honesty, there’s a good chance they are hiding something. Learning to baseline someone’s normal behavior is important in situations such as this: You want to listen for normal or harmless use of such phrases. There’s no need to add them if you really are telling the truth, so be on guard.

If this were his normal behavior, he wouldn't have abruptly stopped saying it after I hit on it. Because it would be his normal behavior.

This. I found myself typing 'honestly' a lot in the last few days of Xenogears Mafia.

@pieguyn:

I don't think much of it. Nothing stood out to me.

@MafiaSSK:

Can you contribute a bit more? Reads, please?

[BROseidon]

And I'm perplexed that I'm your strongest scum read because I am not used to town-you getting my alignment this wrong.

Why aren't you considering the possibility that mastin's scum?

Why aren't you reading my posts?

Nowhere have you stated "I think mastin is scum," and the way you're interacting with him reads to me like you should be scumreading him but aren't for some reason.

[BROseidon]

I was thinking, you've jumped onto two wagons now citing nothing but meta. your jump on wayne was citing meta about being abrasive and it seems so similar to your jump on Varsoon citing meta about vote position because of this. also, both wagons seemed like points where there'd be a possibility of some big breakthrough happening. I was starting to full-out attack Varsoon when you jumped on him and your vote on wayne was near the start of the whole thing with him. I just wanna know if you have some sort of idea behind this or not?

I like using meta early. So sue me

[thezmon221]

honestly, i think that's more of a habit than a tell

That's all it is: a habit I developed a while back. Literally wayne is the only one who has cared enough to make an entire scum read based off of it, and I write out those phrases a fair amount in my games. Granted, I don't do it all the time, but I sometimes have had a strange... urge, I guess you could call it, to write them. It's sometimes how I talk in real life too. You've spotted no lies in my posts.

honestly,

i think that's more of a habit than a tell

And you of all people should know, after Xenogears, to let someone answer their own questions and their own heat.

Care to explain why you aren't getting all hellbent on this?

Would just like to point out the inconsistency in your reads, and your liespotting.

[pieguyn]

He put a vote down on someone I was thinking was scum. VOTES on someone I think are scum are good. REASONS can be bad even if the vote itself fits my purposes, which are to find town to work with and find scum to lynch.

so the fact that someone was pushing on one of your scumreads for "bad reasons" wasn't setting off any alarms?

@Varsoon:

what do you think about 705

@BROs:

is it a coincidence that you used meta after there were already some votes placed? I don't see why you couldn't be using meta right away even if someone has no votes on them.

[mastin2]

just pagetoppin' for the hell of it

Bork is awesome.

[morph the cat]

I don't usually say "I think you're scum" until/unless I've gone from

considering the possibility

to

scumreading

.

I've telegraphed pretty heavily that I'm considering the possibility

So you don't like going after strong players that you scumread early because you're afraid that you might mislynch them.

Yes?

I don't see why you think this is strange. I'll make notes of strong players that I scumread, and point it out. But I'm not going to push them. Not strongly. Because I'm not a scumhunting god. I'm a decently-mediocre player, even upper-mediocre. My reads are right more often than they are wrong, but they ARE wrong, and wrong a ton. What if I were wrong on that strong player being scum? Then I've just sabotaged us both, and given the scum a MASSIVE edge.

It's better to take things more casually. And work with them, hash it out so to speak. Let them see it, let them have a chance to talk me out of it, basically, prod about it and get more info on them before I make a final decision.

It's not the kind of player I want to commit to on D1, if that makes sense.

I've replied to you. I don't see much work with or hash out happening here, Mastin. And I see a whole lot of oooooh but I might be.

You wouldn't be distancing would you?

I've replied to you. I don't see much work with or hash out happening here, Mastin. And I see a whole lot of oooooh but I might be. You wouldn't be distancing would you?

Honestly, I kinda suck at reaching out to you. It's there, but it's sorta subtle I guess. Probably too much. But I'm not sure what else I can do, other than blatantly spending a lot of time on you and forcing it through. But I don't want to force it through. I want things to flow organically. And I'm doing as much as I can to make things go that smoothly, yet they're apparently not strong enough.

(Also. I can't be distancing unless we're both scum. )

You can be distancing from my flip, which is what I meant.

Your

I could be wrong

message gives me that vibe.

I am trying. I'm trying to figure things out. I'm trying to talk to you. But this is the best I can do.

What do you want to talk about?

Since his vote is on us, I'm assuming that means he thinks we're not strong players.

I can definitely understand how you'd interpret it that way, but it's not. You seem to be assuming that my vote on you is an attempt to lynch you. It's not. Quite the opposite, I fully expect the lynch to not be on you. My vote's not on you to pressure you. It's to make a statement about my reads, essentially.

In that...I'm desperate. I really, really don't have anywhere better to go. I don't. I simply don't. I wish I did, but I'm not seeing it. It's not a vote saying that I want you dead. It's a vote saying that I've literally got nothing else I can think of to do. Granted, I maybe shoulda used the bold tags rather than the vote tags to emphasize that. But my scumread on you was just strong enough to warrant the vote tags. In that I DO think you're scum, and decently-strongly, too. But...I'm far from certain on it. I'm not confident in it at all. I would prefer to go elsewhere, even. I just...literally, cannot think of anywhere better for me to go.

And I'm perplexed that I'm your strongest scum read

because I am not used to town-you getting my alignment this wrong

. I don't guess I'll ever be objective about how my play impacts game state, especially in the first few pages of a game. But, my behaviors are always, always, ALWAYS shaped by my motivations and there's a very straight-line relationship between my motivations and my role. I can talk about how Cabd and I partner as town vs how we partner as scum if you want. I'm pretty close to an expert on at least my side of that partnership and what I think I bring to the table. I know where my strengths as a town player lie. I know where (what passes for) my strengths as a scum player lie.

As well as going to look up recent games with Mastin to see if he indicated he thought I was or wasn't a strong player.

He backed away from that statement and whether it should apply to me, but it's there in his post nevertheless.

[morph the cat]

So the fact that someone was pushing on one of your scumreads for "bad reasons" wasn't setting off any alarms?

I believe I've telegraphed my thoughts about BRO pretty well so far this game.

[BROseidon]

@BROs: is it a coincidence that you used meta after there were already some votes placed? I don't see why you couldn't be using meta right away even if someone has no votes on them.

Oh yes, I should have someone placed the vote on Varsoon while I was offline and when you got the vote in right after his bad jump.

With Wayne, I was watching stuff play out and comparing it to LotR.

[BROseidon]

And I'm perplexed that I'm your strongest scum read because I am not used to town-you getting my alignment this wrong

This sentence reads that you think mastin is town.

Why would you be confused if you think mastin's scum?

[mastin2]

Changed my mind.

VOTE: BROseidon.

Think morph's town, but not getting that townvibe from BRO.

[morph the cat]

And I'm perplexed that I'm your strongest scum read because I am not used to town-you getting my alignment this wrong

This sentence reads that you think mastin is town.

Why would you be confused if you think mastin's scum?

No, it does not read that I think mastin is town. It reads that I'm talking to him as though he could be town. And I'm listening to the echoes that come back in the conversation from being talked to as a potential teammate.

I'm really surprised you've never noticed this about my game before. I routinely suspend overt suspicion when interacting with players I'm not townreading, and I think about what their responses suggest about their alignment.

[BROseidon]

No, it does not read that I think mastin is town. It reads that I'm talking to him as though he could be town. And I'm listening to the echoes that come back in the conversation from being talked to as a potential teammate.

I'm really surprised you've never noticed this about my game before. I routinely suspend overt suspicion when interacting with players I'm not townreading, and I think about what their responses suggest about their alignment.

This is the first time I've noticed it :/