Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[zMuffinMan]

iirc, 1395 was more a snide retaliation to whichever nero post before that he said something about me and 1531 wasn't a meta-based assessment. i rarely make meta-based assessments in that manner.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

I'd like to think that I did well enough in responding on my own to him that I don't need to piggback off anything you say, but I would kinda expect that when someone says analysis like that is pointless/confbias they would explain why they think so.

No, you were trying to push me to make a case on baldeagle. Calling something shitty because it's full of confirmation bias

is

an explanation, not something that needs explained. Why is it confirmation bias? Because it's fucking obviously confirmation bias.

[zMuffinMan]

Does anyone think Kingdom is town and if so why?

zdenek

that's about it, really

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

upside down - The town read has gotten stale. I haven't played with Quilford before, and my game with N, he was scum. This is another read I don't feel all that qualified to call definitive.

I award you...a Gold Star. I actually want to lynch him kinda today.

You think I'm scum and yet some of the shit you/other head say to me and the way you say it says otherwise

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

I got a cop guilty.

In reality, I think he's flooding the thread in unnecessary bullshit & POE & gut.

hahahahaha

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

You know, given all the bitching over the plan and the people who were chosen, I'm surprised that no one has suggested we reshuffle the six town reads today.

I fuckin'

did

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

at the time of your argument with mhork, I was thinking you were town and mhork was mafia. but given your inactivity and mhork's claim I'm not sure on either of you anymore. this is basically just gut and I still haven't formally sorted either of you

Mhork's claim of what? Mediuming the person killed by mafia that night? I can think of one really easy way for scum to know who was going to die at night...

There are other reasons to townread Mhork, but "his claim" is a very very shit one.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

Well not today unless you are like a LB alt.

...Why would I have to be an LB alt?

yep but I have a town pm so how does that work?

Lies on your part?

Argh, shut the actual fuck up. What's the actual point in these kinds of comments? Your posts are fucking full of little bullshit responses like these. You're just stirring shit and making your posts fucking unreadable. I see no town motivation in taking something like 2549 out of context and asking a stupid inane question. Nero had quoted what he was talking about

in the post you quoted

. He was saying that he didn't believe you actually started the wagon, a point which you had just fucking replied to in this same comment.

VOTE: Voided

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

I went thought my iso to see if I had any question I asked that have gone unanswered. Here they are!

Hey Voided when do you plan on using your doublevote?

upside down's reasons for suspecting Tammy are absolutely terrible, but not in a scummy way, because I feel like they wouldn't go near her with a ten-foot pole as scum when it's so easy to go, "Boy, you're just so town, Tammy! *pat pat* *kills her at night*"

More or less terrible than hers for suspecting you d1?

Just to be clear: this isn't intended as an attack on Tammy (although it probably is); I'm actually interested in Mina's reply to this.

up to 319, I haven't seen uwop yell at anyone else for "fluff". it seems suspicious since it's not consistent

I don't remember calling anyone out for fluff all game? That's be really hypocritical of me. I'm not hypocritical.

On the plan. Here are my (personal) reasons I don't like it. I know PA has some of her own, but these are my damn feelings:

1) I didn't replace in to

not

play the game's mechanics. The plan, in essence, essentially forces that. "But Ghostlin," you may cry, "there's scum hunting to be done besides that, and Town might not win auctions if you don't pass your name to the townie town towns." Yeah, if I wanted to replace into a mountainous,

I would of replaced into a fucking mountainous.

This reason's personal, and has nothing to do with mechanics or planning. (To be honest, mandatory advertising isn't so bad. That I could live with.)

2) You are essentially asking us to siphon money out of coffers that I know are Town to coffers I do not know are Town. In other words, you are forcing me to give money to people I don't necessarily have faith in to take $100 and change to purchase stuff for my greater good. What's worse, you're making me do it randomly. By Town Wisdom of the Crowds. To people I might not agree with. I want to win this game, so you're essentially taking my personal security and going 'Fuckity whee, who gives a shit about your Town Reads, or if this a player who's play style you agree with, Town's decided, fuck you.'

3) By claiming who routed money where, you are incentivizing scum to use that NK and kill them more. Yes, you may doctor the highest money player, but they can afford to remove second place. Moving the money from 15 smaller banks to 6 bigger banks is horribad, and you should feel bad. It turns the bigger banks into targets--and there's no guarantee they'll keep pace with scum earning power anyhow.

4) "This tactic won MM2." Yeah, and the second you said that, you're sure scum didn't think of ways to not work it? That Magua didn't implement ways not to break this game in the exact same way? This argument is stupid mostly because it involves not only scum but the mod not to be fucktarded about their setups/studying the setup and implementing changes.

5) If you're wrong on one of the six, only ONE of the six, you may have just sent scum huge amounts of money. And while probability argues somewhat normal distribution, it's still a fickle mistress

I don't have a 100% cure, but I even think just moving the remainder of money around frequently would be advantageous if you insist on the Town creating small banks and using it to bid on shit.

Didn't you replace in yesterday? Why didn't you say something then?

I was also uneasy with the plan at first but then I got nominated as a top six and now I like it a lot!

hey everyone should check out my wiki page it's pretty great

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

Been busy. Got some spare time on my hands right now, post coming.

-- Quil

[Voidedmafia]

Voided, I like how I'm supposed to reconsider my read on you, when you haven't even done that to me at all. Survivalism isn't pro-town.

ubertunneling isn't pro-town either.

Also, I have seen small blips of towniness (your money claim, for instance), but they aren't substantial enough to change my read on you. In comparison...you haven't tried to say anything of the sort.

Actual game > Meta

I can agree with this, but then what made you think you needed to metadive me in the first place?

not sexual

*Jamaican accent* oooh, too late, mon.

You guys are a cute cat and I'm a big fan of Steely Dan and all but my heart is empty and needs a lot more love than you can possibly give.
I will let you sit on my lap though.

But I'll be there to show you my Japan and sparkle in your China!

Wow, I'm fucking bad at hydra.

...btw, did someone forget to turn on the swear censor for you, or is this just F-bomb season, Ghostlin?

In other news, I'm really tempted to change Lost Butterfly's signature to "FARADAY'S ABSENCE IS NEITHER A SIGN WE'RE TOWN NOR A SIGN WE'RE SCUM. SERIOUSLY. IT'S BECAUSE OF STUFF UNRELATED TO THIS GAME. I PROMISE. JUST MAN/WOMAN UP AND READ OUR SLOT BASED ON ME."

His recent absence or the absence that's been there all game?

The clincher is the genuineness, which I've glanced through his other games for. Look in Shadows and Lights, look in Achievement Unlocked and do your goddamn meta report and then tell me he's scum.

Um...thank you, Nacho?

No, you were trying to push me to make a case on baldeagle.

Well, yes, but again, not because I wanted to piggyback off it.

And I kinda expected more whys to it beyond "it's confbias!"

What's the actual point in these kinds of comments?

The first question is because I'm confused about that statement.

The 2nd is because that's what I think, obv.

Your posts are fucking full of little bullshit responses like these. You're just stirring shit and making your posts fucking unreadable. I see no town motivation in taking something like 2549 out of context and asking a stupid inane question. Nero had quoted what he was talking about in the post you quoted. He was saying that he didn't believe you actually started the wagon, a point which you had just fucking replied to in this same comment.

Explain how I took 2549 out of context. I admitted I had my placement on the wagon wrong (I completely forgot there were two votes on him before I voted), but the LB alt comment took me aback, hence why I asked. I don't see how this is a problem?

Also, there is such a thing as ignoring the parts that you don't think need replies or whatever. That's not hard to do.

Also, I'm pretty sure I answered 1214 around then. I can just use it today if we're going to lynch Nero, though.

[pieguyn]

up to 319, I haven't seen uwop yell at anyone else for "fluff". it seems suspicious since it's not consistent

I don't remember calling anyone out for fluff all game? That's be really hypocritical of me. I'm not hypocritical.

I'm sure I read a post coming from you that was mentioning fluff

it was like really early though so it's not too relevant now

also prod dodge. real post coming later

[morph the cat]

Town:

PeregrineV: The way he went about neighborizing two separate QTs speaks town to cabd, but of course this info needs to be verified later in the game. Ffery likes empire's meta thumbnail, wants to see the full case.

Lost Butterfly- Min'a paranoia about us today struck ffery as ubertown. Their D1 gambit feels like a town gambit to Cabd.

Mhork- Formerly lean town, his stubborness and insistance that we not just use him as a medium alone speaks town, and tammy townreading him helps volumes too. (We're still testing tammysyr on a question or two before we end the day, though, nothing personal)

Garuda- Hell if I can explain how ffery does her nacho read, but it's always right, so she's towning him (almost always right - ffery was undecided/leaning town in that Dixon Hill game, and delayed forever because GiF wasn't around to crosscheck with)

Lean Town:

Pieguyn- Cabd is going to go re-read fast and the furious to cross-refrence scumpie just to be safe

BBmola- Meta, townread's reads of him

zMuffinman- Cabd made a meta case a while back

Meh:

Nero Cain- We were having him at scum, and seeing tammy's scumread of him align with ours, and are curious as to why she now townreads him, as we don't see it. ffery is making a project of this read.

Seanald- Nachopire get off your lazy asses and sort him for us definitively

Ghostly Penguin- I don't even pretend to able to sort ghostlin. Ffery has him at meh as well. She feels like the bombast to content ratio is off.

Harakiri- Formerly leaning town, but coasting and sakura seems to have checked out, where we know nati is the better scumplayer between the two. ffery is a little confused that he's considering us possibly scum because he's always seemed pretty comfortable townreading her when she's town...which is every game they've played so far.

upside down-Formerly town, if there's scum in the townblock this is probably it

Baldeagle: Day one townread has gone stale as fuck

Lean Scum:

Prohawk- My townread on hawkie has flown south for the winter, because nothing he's doing makes sense right now. He seems disengaged, which doesn't really fit. (If he's scum, he's right hand given DP's inclusion in his townreads)

KingdomAces- I think I want him here for now. Ffery agrees. He seems disengaged heavily.

JacobSavage- He's doing nothing but taking potshots on the side, kinda reminds me of his SK play in Coug's large theme and in NY165. ffery is comparing this to earnestly confused JS in the harry potter game and not caring much for him.

Let's lynch these fuckers:

VoidedMafia- Both of us just can't get over this scumread. We'd be shooting here tonight if we hypothetically had won night kill.

[morph the cat]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: VoidedMafia

[Harakiri]

I think we all know that Sakura's check out is likely not related to this game at all, Cabd.

Coasting cuz I really don't care about the Voided/Nero/Mhurk/Eagle mess and NFord's posting gives me flashbacks.

My paranoia to you is partially Sakura's last words to me being to keep paranoid about you and because I know that you'd take the initiative as you have as scum--it's not going to fade until one of us is dead, so w/e.

Anyways I'm gonna maintain holding pattern if anyone wants to talk to me.

[morph the cat]

I think we all know that Sakura's check out is likely not related to this game at all, Cabd.

Coasting cuz I really don't care about the Voided/Nero/Mhurk/Eagle mess and NFord's posting gives me flashbacks.

My paranoia to you is partially Sakura's last words to me being to keep paranoid about you and because I know that you'd take the initiative as you have as scum--it's not going to fade until one of us is dead, so w/e.

Anyways I'm gonna maintain holding pattern if anyone wants to talk to me.

I want to clarify our Nero read. Will be making that a priority.

I didn't realize that Sakura's check-out was that complete. Will factor that into our ongoing read development.

Cabd would totally take the initiative as scum. Me, not so much.

Heh. I think I've finally figured out a couple markers of Cabd's town game and I think they'd make sense to you, but if I tell you then HE'LL KNOW TOO. And he'll change things up.

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

So we think Voided is scum.

We haven't liked any of his pushes all game. He seems to jump from voting X to voting Y with a weird lack of continuity, bouncing from ProHawk to baldeagle to Harakiri Day 1 with little substance to his votes. His Hermy vote in #749 was especially flimsy. He didn't sound like he was voting scum, he sounded chiding.

We also thought it seemed like he was trying to get us to push a case on baldeagle for his bad VCA.

Moreover, he's scummy for the inconsistency N outlined in #1363 and #1546, and I also like what Lost Butterfly said in #1525, that 'some of the points in his walls have been insincere and opportunistic ... in particular, his habit of quoting posts and going, "Ohhhh, you're looking SCUMMIER! This looks even scummier than that"' is very gutpingy and makes me uneasy.

I don't think he produces much original stuff in terms of scumhunting as well, he seems to be reacting to what other people have said whether it's about him or not rather than seeking out new things.

We think he's a better lynch than Nero for today.

-- Quil

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

Just touching on a few other things I noticed whilst reading:

People who questioned whether Mhork was gambiting on Tammy are bad.

I want more penguin_alien from Ghostly Penguin. And I'm still not liking Garuda.

My stronger townreads are zMuffin, Lost Butterfly, and Lord Mhork.

-- Quil

[uʍop ǝpısdn]

EBWOP: People who thought Mhork was gambiting by faking a Medium on Pyro are bad.

-- Quil

[ProHawk]

Whats wrong Cat? Don't like that I dont trust you?

[zMuffinMan]

Argh, shut the actual fuck up. What's the actual point in these kinds of comments? Your posts are fucking full of little bullshit responses like these. You're just stirring shit and making your posts fucking unreadable.

this is the main issue i've had with voided for most of the game. lots of the questions he's asking / statements he's making are either out of place or just plain pointless. but i'm beginning to think this is just a playstyle thing more than an alignment thing.

i'm having second thoughts about voided atm. i don't really see voided-scum making sense as a DP partner - some people are saying his vote looked like a bus, but i don't see it. and i don't see him going, "yeah, i'm really just voting him out of self-preservation" as scum - that sounded more like something i'd expect voided to be saying truthfully as town.

when i have time (prob tomorrow night), i'll go over his ISO and sort this read properly.

People who questioned whether Mhork was gambiting on Tammy are bad.

i didn't think he was faking it. i did suggest someone ask a question towards the end of the day to verify everything mhork's been communicating is actually what pyro is saying, but i care less about that now that i'm reading the stuff mhork is communicating. it doesn't look like he's making it up.

[Harakiri]

Well I was V/LA last weekend and didn't want to read through all the pages that were posted back then, and Nat didn't say anything in the QT, so I might as well just ask here what happened since last friday

~Sakura Hana

[Magua]

Prodded PeregrineV.

[Lost Butterfly]

I'm feeling warm and fuzzy about Garuda again based on the last couple of pages. Right now other lynches I could do are ProHawk and MAYBE KingdomAces. Still don't really want to lynch Voided, although it wouldn't shock me if he was scum. Not as worried about Molla, since I read his ISO and he's a lot more relaxed and playful than I remember. But he still needs to step it up. I usually find him pretty readable when he's town despite his laziness.

I'm meaning to do my own meta research of Nero (mostly to see if he's prone to "YOU'RE ALL FUCKING MORONS FOR SUSPECTING ME, AND I'VE TOTALLY BUSTED THESE UNLIKELY PLAYERS AS SCUM FOR THESE LAME REASONS" bluster as town, or if he can fake that kind of posturing as scum), but Garuda, if you have particular games you think I should check as examples of why this is his town play and not his scum play, that would be nice. By the way, for Mhork: what does Tammy think of the "late" Faraday's point that Nero only started being angry when people attacked him for not being shouty enough?

which stuff?

i've played with nero a few times before (a couple years back) but it has nothing to do with why i think he's scum here.

LIAR SCUM FOUND!!!

vote:Muffin

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=29987

Its rather ironic that in that game Monkeyscum got lynched for pretending to have not played with me and now Muffinscum is getting lynched for lying about not having played with me recently.

Vote: Nero Cain

Here's the reason: I don't necessarily remember my scum/town games, how I fucking played, etic. This is treated as a scum slip, which is just fucking terrible but not usually scummy, but Nero's using it for the lynchpin to attempt a lynch here. Consider, for a minute the sum total of actual scum hunting he's done this game--if his questions really were fucking serious, he could of come up with a case or something this game except: 'muffin lied because he said he wasn't in a game recently, but I found a game where he was..'

It's flimsy. And considering Nero Cain's been around a bit, one would expect he'd try a tact that, oh, I don't fucking know, did something.

I don't like the timing at all of this vote. Did you ISO Nero before making this post, Ghostlin? Or read any posts of his?

That said, Nero, what exactly do you think Muffin's motivations for

lying

about this were?

[morph the cat]

Whats wrong Cat? Don't like that I dont trust you?

This is a horrible response to our read of you because your read on me has nothing to do with our stated reasoning. You trying to retro-actively call it OMGUS is noted.