Micro 252: There Is No Doctor - END

[T-Bone]

2 words very efficient!

Also, someone help me. I keep seeing name drops for players who aren't playing, so who are the alts, and who are the hydrae?

[Bulbazak]

Sangres is a hydra of Fferyllt and Nachomamma8. I don't think there are any alts.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

no one has altslipped in here.

[T-Bone]

Okay good, those were the players I was confused on seeing.

[BBmolla]

Votecount 1.10

Bulbazak - 2 - sangres Lastsurvivor,
pitoli - 2 - T-Bone, The Purple Rose
TheIrishPope - 1 - pitoli
F-16_Fighting_Falcon - 1 - EspeciallyTheLies,
The Purple Rose - 1 - TheIrishPope

Not Voting: F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Bulbazak

Deadline: (expired on 2013-11-12 09:33:00)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Please let me know if the votecount is incorrect I feel like I messed something up.

[sangres]

Hi T-Bone. Are you in agreement with your predecessor about his pitoli vote?


I've been procrastinating about the next game I'm reviewing for F-16's binary theory because the game's a bazillion pages long and bulba was in the game through day 3. I should have my findings up in a few hours.

[T-Bone]

Unvote

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I take it that's a no.

Who's voting bulb and why, briefly? Since he's currently the largest wagon.

[T-Bone]

Okay, I would like everyone to keep something in mind. While the whole game has lasted over a week for the rest of you, the entire game has just happened for me in the last day, so everything is fresh in my mind.

But seriously ETL is my strongest scumread.

Vote: ETL

. I wasn't joking when I asked him why he's scum. Why is he scum T-Bone? Well I'm glad you asked. I find ETL's to drop some pretty scum motivated posting. I'll point some out and explain the behind the scenes stuff I see going on.

#37 he's looking for a buddy in TIP. It's scummy to me when a player tries to explain someone else's actions. That's how scum can go "look at me contributing!". I don't like players who go 'look at me contributing!'

#75 "Oh let me set up a lynch all coy like'.

#99 He wants to plant some doubt about the Innocent Child. That's good, scum want that doubt in the air.

#104 - No progression into changing his read from F-16 to TIP. It just suddenly happens, and he rages too, because a lot of players do that on this site (me included) so it seems innocent enough right? This is the post that originally set me off in my first read, and I immediately posted in the thread after finishing that page. RE: my first post. Other than trying to justify TIP earlier in the game his posts have been devoid of anyone really but F-16 to this point.

#180 - Don't like this, because the post he is reacting to from TPR is the most townie thing anyone has said this game.

#233 - Hate hate hate this. "people don't often catch scum on Day 1....(so why bother amiright?)"

#543 - Hate this too. F-16 was town when it suited his agenda. Now F-16 is scum again. That's not an evolving read, that's a read of convenience.

#552/#556 - Similar thing. Now TPR is town because again, it suits some agenda. That's not an evolving read. Calling the playerlist scum for wall posting...again, that's not reads that are fluid and evolving...it's as if ETL isn't keeping track of his own reads, and instead the reads he is posting look fake because of it.

#566 - 'Let me attack the credibility of a town-confirmed player'. Sorry, LastSurvivor's reads are the most important and trump everyone else's right now.

Um yeah, that's ETL in short. Any questions?

[pitoli]

I'll review the case more in detail when I get home. Where do the rest of the players fall into place if ETL is your scum read?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I didn't read that yet but I'm not surprised by the vote at all. I'll respond when I get home.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Links would also be nice if you're going to post a wall case like that so I can go look at what you're referring to....

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL isn't keeping track of

his own reads

the game.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

- I think T-Bone's case comes from a town motivation. I'd like to see ETL's response.
- ffery's analysis of other games to verify a theory of whether Bulbazak has evidence of binary reads is very, very town. I've also re-read the Newbie game and am in the process of reading others although I got distracted by reading TIP's meta. I'll post more on that when I am ready.
- Based on meta, I am reading TIP as scum. Nacho, I want to discuss your meta-read in more detail.
- I think The Purple Rose might be scum as well but likely not in a scumteam with TIP. I can see one of TIP/TPR as scum, but the other, I really have no leads on who it could be.

I'll post reads in another post once I finish.

[TheIrishPope]

Talk like you know my meta bro

[T-Bone]

I don't like meta arguments, so if you want to convince me, I want arguments that matter from this game.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What are your reads on the remaining players?

[Bulbazak]

Vote TheIrishPope

I'm really not seeing ETL-scum.

[The Purple Rose]

I have to say, that I'm sad to see chaosomega go, I hoped him to be my buddy to push the pitoli wagon with. I do feel justified in my townread there from T-bone's post.

And I'm sure this'll sound hypocritical to some of you, but what part of pitoli's play justifies the amazing resistance this wagon seemingly has?

[T-Bone]

For my benefit, outline what you think of him again, please. I don't have a strong opinion of him one way or another right now.

[Lastsurvivor]

Vote TheIrishPope

I'm really not seeing ETL-scum.

You've had a town read on Tip this whole goddamn game.

[Lastsurvivor]

Who's voting bulb and why, briefly? Since he's currently the largest wagon.

Hi.

Bulb's movement from wagon to wagon without any sort of explanation screams scum to me. This vote on TIP is a prime example of that -- he has frequently townread TIP, and now he's scum for no reason? BS.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Strong Townreads

1) LastSurvivor

- Mod confirmed town.

2) Sangres

- Sangres moves into my strong town pile (for good this time). Their behavior and reads just don't make any sense from a scum viewpoint. I have a decent understanding of both head's scum strategies and their reads go against everything I know of it. Their investigation on Bulbazak coupled with the later follow-up makes me think they poked for information, talked about the results and came back with a stronger attack. The biggest thing though is that everytime I ask Nacho for his reads, he usually responds with exactly what I was thinking at that time which is very unlike scum-Nacho. I distinctly remember being puzzled by his reads in the last game I played with him (HPCOS) which were later revealed to be part of his underlying strategy. In addition, Nacho's mutating read on ChaosOmega based on his responses comes from a town motivation. It doesn't really make sense to point out town things that Chaos did if Sangres was looking at him as a viable mislynch. I also see some of ffery's reactions from being poked and suspected as only making sense from a town standpoint and is very hard to fake as scum and is similar the reaction to OGML in Walking Dead although more muted here. Later posts and analysis of Bulbazak's meta reads very, very town. There is just no way ffery as scum would go through hundreds of pages just to confirm or disprove a hypothesis that I put forth. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that nobody else on the site would do that. I am very confident in Sangres-town and I am stupid for even suspecting you in the first place and giving you a hard time.

3) EspeciallyTheLies

- I explained most of my townread on ETL in 152. Her constant uncertainty while pushing a wagon is a big giveaway and shows that she doesn't actually know who the scum are. Add to it the fact that she was fighting for credit for a lynch. Since then, the inactivity caused my read to go a little stale but even now I see ETL's posts as townish although I don't understand some of them. I doubt that as scum, she would say that she was going to sheep TPR which was bound to attract criticism and turn the spotlight on her. At this point, I see town who is fed up of the long walls and no longer feels like getting into the game. Her behavior while she was active was overwhelmingly townish so I am comfortable with my townread here. T-Bone, I see your case against ETL and disagree with quite a few points. I do agree though that her vote on me came out of nowhere after already having meta'd me and said I was town. I still think town paranoia can rear its head at the most inconvenient times. I don't think that her town-read on me was strong. It seems like she just wanted to sort me but it didn't look like her doubts were fully allayed. I could sense that there were lingering doubts which finally surfaced again.

4) Pitoli

- Most of Pitoli's posts show a lot of in-depth thinking and town paranoia. I think that as scum, her obvious move would be to side with me and go after Bulbazak while the two of us walled because I made it clear I wasn't going to vote for her. I wouldn't rule out that she was looking to mislynch me but a lot of her posts like 459 really betray that she hopes I am town. This makes sense because I was defending her. It seems like she almost thought it was too good to be true that a townie was defending her so hard against attacks when she felt that to some extent, she deserved to be FOSsed. I don't believe her paranoia of me was faked. Her desire to genuinely understand Bulbazak's motivations and sync up with him rang very townish too. I especially like how she explains in 438 how Bulbazak was projecting his scumread on me and she found herself mostly nodding in agreement and how they both finally synced. It shows that she was looking for subtle signs from Bulbazak as to where his head was at - i.e. genuinely scumhunting him.

Everyone else

I am thinking there is probably 2 town and 2 scum here. I'll likely not have enough time to sort out all of these players before the end of Day 1. Further analysis will have to be done on Day 2. I find TIP the scummiest.

5) Bulbazak

- Bulbazak is someone I read as town but am not entirely positive about. On the one hand, I agree with LastSurvivor's points that the more friends scum have, the better for them regardless of how powerful they may be. I'd like the TIP vote explained too. On the other hand, there is my analysis in 547. I also don't think his unvote after I posted it makes any sense at all. If he was scum, he could easily call it "buddying" and continue pushing. He seems to be at a stage where he isn't really sure who to persue or what to do. I find it difficult to see the scum motivation behind suddenly stopping a push and being in a position where he has to start all over again. He also pro-actively stepped off rather than wait for the town to react.

6) T-Bone

- I find it hard to believe that T-Bone as scum came into the game and started pushing a case on someone who everyone agreed was obvtown. Even more townish was that some of his points make sense and actually made me wonder if I was wrong about ETL. I find that arguments that make me question my reads are usually strong and likely town. Upon thinking more about it, I am not sold and can think of very plausible town explanations for ETL's actions which are much more likely than the scum ones. More than just the case on ETL, the part where T-Bone came into the thread saying that he found ETL scummy and how he later substantiates looks very genuine. However, the lack of providing any other reads concerns me.

7) ThePurpleRose

- I am not really convinced that Purple Rose attacking ETL is a towntell by itself. Scum can sometimes attack obvtown to look like town. I don't find TPR's attack to be as genuine as T-Bone's for instance where he lays out a case and pushes like he actually believes it. My initial reaction was to think that TPR was town. I am considering the possibility that he/she did it just for that effect. I also find his/her interaction 550 off when he/she commends Bulbazak for unvoting. The low activity level is another cause for concern. The continued push on Pitoli just reads ingenuine at this point. There has been plenty happening in the game but TPR is still pushing at Pitoli.

8) TheIrishPope

- TIP has a very transferable playstyle and isn't one to post a lot of analysis. I've read a couple of his other games to see playstyle differences.

In Open 515: ColdStone, Cabd and Ms Marangal catch TIP-scum instantly based off of just a few posts. TIP as town is seemingly relaxed and "trolltastic" according to them, but can't replicate the same style as scum. In that game, he had been asking serious questions (which were actually fairly irrelevant, see his ISO) and poking at a single player. In particular, post 26 interested me a lot because it was later used by Cabd in another game to manipulate his meta. The main thing to note from the above gamelink is that TIP's questioning of EvilRegals looked really forced and he seemingly tries to emulate his "trollish" town meta.

In Mini 1478: Mafia Xenologue where he was town, he also starts by questioning Natirasha about why he asked for details about a role. His questioning feels more relevant to game. He is a lot more worried and antsy once Bork starts scumreading him and tries to convince him to back off. His posts 97, 106, and 118 in the Xenologue game all ask alignment indicative questions. Notice how he probes Jabberwock and asks them questions. He even says that he doesn't see the town-motivation behind their posting (and later LLD's), and asks them to explain. He tries to prod the inactives into the game by asking for their thoughts.

In another town game Newbie 1367, read his ISO and see how most of his questions are probing and asks people to give reads such as 297, and 299, and 303. He is very specific about his questions and explains how he developed the reads that he did. 297 also includes a probing questioning of Cabd. He pretty strongly says that tunneling is a scumtell and pushes players for tunneling.

Now let's look at his play in this game. There is no pro-active scumhunting, no probing for motivations. His posts are very reactive (demanding a case from TPR), and actually match his scum meta much, much more than his town meta. He doesn't ask many alignment-indicative questions but tells others to ask him questions. The only decent posts from him are his reads-list in 522 and his demands for a case from TPR. I see no pro-active scumhunting. It seems more like he is trying to emulate his "troll-tastic" town-meta although I do see some parallels where he demands justification from people that suspect him. For the most part, he has been providing superficial commentary (such as in 137, 305, 309, 315, 323, 327, 477, and 498) rather than digging into player's motivations. Nacho, you said you know his meta well. Can you explain your meta-read for me. I'd like to hear more details than what you posted earlier. If I am off-base, hearing your critique of my read would be awesome as well.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Really quickly, regarding TPR, and why I decided she was town, beyond my suspicions of others, is specifically the fact that she attacked me. I was not and still am not an easy lynch. especially at the time of her attack, there were far better wagons she could have, as scum, easily pushed through without casting suspicion on herself. Except she didnt. She went after someone who, in her opinion, seemed the most likely to be scum. I dont see a scum motivation for any of that.

I'm sorry I havent responded yet, TB. I've been busy. But other things have been sorted now so I'll have more time for this game. I'll look into the case and answer any questions you have tonight, as well as give a detailed and updated reads list.

FWIW, I agree that Bulb's sudden reversal on TiP is strange, especially since he (TIP) seems to have gotten into the game now.

[TheIrishPope]

Wow F 16 many words.
ETL you know I'm town right?