Mini 1515: Touhou Imperishable Night (Game Over)

[MafiaSSK]

SSK, got reads?

Nope. No real reads. I've majorly lurked this game and now I feel bad and stuffs.

[mastin2]

(Also. Every time I can think of me being town and someone noting my usage, I remember them being scum.)

so it's suspicious when I try to avoid personal tells, but when I mention this personal tell, it's also suspicious?

Maybe? I don't have a better answer than that.

oh my god wtf
I dreamed last night that when I woke up this game suddenly had 107 pages, and someone had dayvig'd zmuffin and he had flipped mafia doctor. what the hell is wrong with me @_@

Silly as it seems, I've always had a soft-spot for people posting about their mafia-related dreams. (Mainly because I used to be the one doing the dreaming. )

if I'm at least a semi-competent player, then why would I make the most obvious and transparent as fuck bus ever? especially when you've got a whole thread going "stop bussing" and gave some good reasons as to why bussing isn't necessarily a good thing, I don't see how you could place me as a semi-competent player yet think that's a bus. o.o

Eh, I'm calling it as I see it. If I thought you were scum for sure, I'd be voting you. But I don't. Regardless of whether your shot is real or faked, the move you just made looked incredibly town to me, as a start.

Slight niggle about Mastin for that claim demand given the caution in bork's post.

I didn't want SSK to claim his flavor, which bork warned us not to do. I wanted him to roleclaim, which bork's warning didn't seem to be about. (Thus, my "for future reference" post.)

[pieguyn]

SSK quick at least tell me who your strongest scumreads are. even if you don't have any really strong reads

[mastin2]

(In fact, it's quite explicit about it being flavor-claims.

>>>Important: There are eyes and ears everywhere. Flavor Claim at your own risk in this game.<<<

I wanted SSK's role, not his name.)

[mastin2]

Town

pieguyn - lol dayvig. Way he went about it is legit town thought process. No way there's a scumdayvig in a mini, anyways.
Mac - Ffery's read

Lean Town

Varsoon - I disgree with him on some stuff, but he's the towniest player in the list atm.
zMuffinMan - this is becoming a pattern. I'll like his entrance into games, get weirded out about some of his early posts and stances, and then work my way back toward a town read.
thenewearth - moved up from null
Psychlone - it worries me a lot that I don't have enough data to develop even a preliminary read. Much as I loved the hi guys case, it's worn off. I know Nacho's stolen laptop situation, but GiF get in here and talk. Step it the fuck up giffy.

Null

mastin2 - I think scum-mastin would actually work harder on mislynching me, because I don't think I get much more mislynchable than town-morph at this point in the morph-evolution. I like some of his reads, and like them some of them more than I originally did. Claim demand from SSK seemed weird.
waynegg - I don't know how Cabd feels but I've come back to what seems to be my usual take when I read waynegg's posts - intentionally chaotic and abrasive, reaction seeking, and ultimately not all that effective. Some sort of order usually emerges, and he does a fair job of interacting with his town reads later on. I'm watching for signs of that happening.
Ghostly Penguin - Not as much content mixed in with the invective as I'm used to seeing. IIRC we got off to a rocky start in the Diner game but eventually our reads and stances were pretty synchronous. Waiting to see if that happens here.

Leaning Scum

BROseidon - there's a huge reads/reactions disconnect here that I'm not used to seeing when we're both town. Xenogears being a counter-example. I feel like we occasionally come close to the same page on a player or post and then it falls apart again. I'm worried this means scum-BRO.
MafiaSSK - sorry, mastin. I still have somewhat but not entirely meta-based concerns here.
thezmon211 - the back and forth between him and waynegg has me leaning scum, mostly because his arguments have been as much about discrediting waynegg as about rebutting the substance. I know that a word choice based case isn't easy to refute. In fact BRO tried to spin such a case on me in xenogears, and my reaction was to laugh it off because fuck no I was town.

I'm not exactly liking this reads list, by the way. It's changed, but basically only in the top half. The bottom half seems to be stagnant.

[mastin2]

That said, goes without saying, pie's pretty dang town now. So let's go through things a bit.

[morph the cat]

We only had a few minutes to make the changes we felt the most important. Sue us. Like I said, there's a 1 in 11 chance we're dead when SSK dies, if that shot was real.

[MafiaSSK]

Quick 10 page skim+ISO, leads me to really not liking thezmon. I feel he's overly aggressive towards town and gets overly defensive in response to questions.

Possibly waynegg but that's moreso gut and could easily be wrong.

[mastin2]

1. BROseidon
2. Ghostly Penguin (Ghostlin + penguin_alien)
3. Mac
6. Morph the Cat (fferyllt + Cabd)
8. Psychlone (GuyInFreezer + Nachomamma8)
9. thenewearth
10. thezmon221
11. Varsoon
13. zMuffinMan

The relevant players. (SSK we'll know the alignment of soon enough assuming the shot was legit, which it definitely looks like it is. Pie's town, and wayne also is pretty damn town. Consider them my tier-1 town.)

Varsoon looks town, zMuffin looks like town, and I *think* Mac's town as well, though I admittedly don't know him well enough to be sure. (Let's call those my tier-2 townreads.) Which leaves...

1. BROseidon
2. Ghostly Penguin (Ghostlin + penguin_alien)
6. Morph the Cat (fferyllt + Cabd)
8. Psychlone (GuyInFreezer + Nachomamma8)
9. thenewearth
10. thezmon221

...Six names, for 2-3 (depending on SSK) scum slots. Now, that's not to say I don't have reads on these players. I just feel like I need to explore each of them a bit. Be back in a while, to see if I can elaborate on my feelings about each. Because, bluntly, aside from BRO, I can see any of them being town (though Psychlone is probably the most concerning to me, with the other two hydras not far behind) or any of them as scum (though I'm admittedly on a purely-HOPING basis looking mainly at TNE and thez).

[mastin2]

Though that said, morph's probably town. (The real concern is on Psychlone and GP.)

[pieguyn]

I really hope SSK is just trolling us. otherwise, well fuck

SSK: anything else you wanna add

[waynegg]

(In fact, it's quite explicit about it being flavor-claims.

>>>Important: There are eyes and ears everywhere. Flavor Claim at your own risk in this game.<<<

I wanted SSK's role, not his name.)

Why do you want him to claim his role? Fake shot and I'm calling this a scum gambit to see if he's a PR.

[pieguyn]

Fake shot and I'm calling this a scum gambit to see if he's a PR.

wayne this is the worst logic ever.
suppose I was scum and he was town and the shot was fake. then since he was town his VT claim is correct and we'd already know he's not a PR.
are you really scum after all you've done that made me townread you >_<

[mastin2]

Why do you want him to claim his role?

Because he was at L-2. He was the center of attention, likely to be the D1 lynch down the road. We'd get more info from him claiming earlier than we would from him later. Note that I was off the wagon yet suspicious of him, which meant that if I were to have voted him, he'd be placed at L-1 which'd have warranted a claim anyway.

And he did claim, for the record. He claimed VT.

[waynegg]

I wasn't even talking about you Pie. I'm talking about Mastin. Why is he pushing for a Role reveal when that'll come with the flip? That makes absolutely no sense. But, now that you throw your hat in the ring, why are you concerned that me calling Mastin's play a scum gambit? It reads as such whether the shot were fake or real because there's no town motivation to it.

[pieguyn]

Why do you want him to claim his role?

Fake shot and I'm calling this a scum gambit to see if he's a PR.

bolded means you're saying my shot is fake and is a scum gambit

but it's not fake anyway so

[waynegg]

Scum Mastin pushing for a role claim before his flip is scumotivated Pie. If you misunderstood my meaning before, you surely don't now. Wanna continue?

[morph the cat]

Town

pieguyn - lol dayvig. Way he went about it is legit town thought process. No way there's a scumdayvig in a mini, anyways.
Mac - Ffery's read

Lean Town

Varsoon - I disgree with him on some stuff, but he's the towniest player in the list atm.
zMuffinMan - this is becoming a pattern. I'll like his entrance into games, get weirded out about some of his early posts and stances, and then work my way back toward a town read.
thenewearth - moved up from null
Psychlone - it worries me a lot that I don't have enough data to develop even a preliminary read. Much as I loved the hi guys case, it's worn off. I know Nacho's stolen laptop situation, but GiF get in here and talk. Step it the fuck up giffy.

Null

mastin2 - I think scum-mastin would actually work harder on mislynching me, because I don't think I get much more mislynchable than town-morph at this point in the morph-evolution. I like some of his reads, and like them some of them more than I originally did. Claim demand from SSK seemed weird.
waynegg - I don't know how Cabd feels but I've come back to what seems to be my usual take when I read waynegg's posts - intentionally chaotic and abrasive, reaction seeking, and ultimately not all that effective. Some sort of order usually emerges, and he does a fair job of interacting with his town reads later on. I'm watching for signs of that happening.
Ghostly Penguin - Not as much content mixed in with the invective as I'm used to seeing. IIRC we got off to a rocky start in the Diner game but eventually our reads and stances were pretty synchronous. Waiting to see if that happens here.

Leaning Scum

BROseidon - there's a huge reads/reactions disconnect here that I'm not used to seeing when we're both town. Xenogears being a counter-example. I feel like we occasionally come close to the same page on a player or post and then it falls apart again. I'm worried this means scum-BRO.
MafiaSSK - sorry, mastin. I still have somewhat but not entirely meta-based concerns here.
thezmon211 - the back and forth between him and waynegg has me leaning scum, mostly because his arguments have been as much about discrediting waynegg as about rebutting the substance. I know that a word choice based case isn't easy to refute. In fact BRO tried to spin such a case on me in xenogears, and my reaction was to laugh it off because fuck no I was town.

I'm not exactly liking this reads list, by the way. It's changed, but basically only in the top half. The bottom half seems to be stagnant.

I'd like to move thezmon up, but I don't really feel like I can justify it beyond "gut" right now, and I worry gut may be driven in part by "If wayne's crazylogic is bad on me maybe it's bad on thez too", though his cases have next to nothing in common. Credit where credit due, he was correct about Tiphaine in xenoblade, though I never saw anything comparative done to see if Tiphine's word choices were significantly different from when under pressure as town.

[waynegg]

And almost the whole scum team in Gear. Don't forget that.

[morph the cat]

And almost the whole scum team in Gear. Don't forget that.

I'm calling out the tiphaine read specifically because the basis of your thezmon read looks similar. If you used that lie-speak analysis or whatever you call it in xenogears, I missed it.

[waynegg]

I used it. BRO saw.

[waynegg]

ISO there and cntrl f "contraction"

[morph the cat]

I'll take your word for it.

[pieguyn]

I dunno what to do until SSK flips ;w; I need to quit waking up too damn early.

Maybe? I don't have a better answer than that.

the thing is I'm saying you set up this dichotomy (personal reads vs. no personal reads) and then no matter which side I choose you say it's scummy. if you say one side is scummy and the other one wouldn't have been, it doesn't make sense to go saying "owait now the other side is also scummy".

Eh, I'm calling it as I see it. If I thought you were scum for sure, I'd be voting you. But I don't. Regardless of whether your shot is real or faked, the move you just made looked incredibly town to me, as a start.

I read this as "I can't answer this question so I'll call him town and hopefully he'll stop questioning me" 0.0

I'm really not sure if I'm actually legitimately seeing all this or if it's just paranoia

[pieguyn]

like his posts seem genuine for me, but I can't get this feeling out of my head that he's scum due to what I mentioned > <

last time this happened tho (newbie 1428) my logic was correct and my personal read was incorrect. so for now I go with my logic @_@

also @mastin: I'm actually really curious where you got the idea that I'm a semi-competent player. it makes me feel warm and fuzzy :3