Micro 252: There Is No Doctor - END

[The Purple Rose]

The continued push on Pitoli just reads ingenuine at this point. There has been plenty happening in the game but TPR is still pushing at Pitoli.

So the fact that pitoli has disappeared recently makes good any scumslips she made earlier? What kind of reasoning is this, F16? She was a good lynch, she's still a good lynch for exactly the same reasonings. Not "well this person switches reads rather quickly" which are cases made since. They arent terribly impressive. In the meantime, I'm actually being criticized for pushing on pitoli who's mysteriously disappeared from this game. So pushing lurkers for being scummy when they

did

post is bad according to you. I rather lynch them for showing they were scum when they did post.

For T-Bone, quotes of me pushing pitoli:

Alright, my gut instinct says that the scum are The Purple Rose and pitoli, with pitoli being a godfather. The godfather thing is from this quote:

At this point I welcome any daycop (or night cop) to have their way with me

It's not pro-town to want to be investigated by cops. If you know you're town, it's a wasted investigation that won't hit scum. A godfather would love to be "cleared" in such a manner, though.

This is Chaos's interpretation of mafia theory. If he is town, that is merely his own opinion. There is certainly town motivation in wanting to be cleared as Pitoli expressed. It frees the townie from having to defend themselves constantly, and allows them to focus on scumhunting. Chaos here is forcing his opinions on mafia theory onto Pitoli.

I feel I have to back chaos up here, he's getting too much flak for a correct application of a less well known tell. This does have the advantage that scum might not avoid it. This is

the

godfather tell, and enough have fallen for it.

Now, you come with a reasoning that say he might be a townie that wants to be cleared. You and I both know, that's not the first thing on your mind if you are a townie. We both are rather busy figuring out who's the scum, not making sure we get seen as town by investigations. Now, I wonder what role does have that as his first thought (and since this popped up with pitoli very quickly)... Indeed, the godfather. Because, wouldn't you love it if you got investigated if you were a godfather. Now that would be brilliant.

Also, which kind of people make a lone post solely for that purpose, on page 6, that is entirely about a particular role that might or might not be in the game? It reeks to me that pitoli knows too much about this setup. Another reason why she'd be the godfather, she'd have a good idea that there might be a cop in the game called "there is no doctor".

As such, this is not a vote I made with my heart, I can logically explain you how pitoli showed that she had different interests and perhaps different knowledge then we do.

you talked yourself into f-16. I know how he plays, I've read his posts, and I've explained so far in two posts why he's my top town read. The post I quoted is a bit saddening. It shows you are straying from how you played at the start of the game, and I don't like the change very much. You were better then.

Also, regardless of how much some players ridiculed chaos, he's right on pitoli. No one of the townies would think of making a singular post just asking for a cop investigation. It shows two things. That she's somehow aware that there perhaps is a cop, and that the thing that's on her mind is investigations. Two things that townies do not know and do not worry about. Call it a tell, call it a slip, pitoli showed what she was thinking and it's not clearly not town!

I'm not going to say it. But I'm happy you unvoted.

I don't know what to say further though. I do not know how to put more convincingly how I believe pitoli is scum. I could rehash the argument again how she's given us an insight in her motivations and that we can see they aren't town, but I guess that's not what you people use to scumhunt. I myself think the angle where you talk about her very passive response to accusations (it's actually other people who defended against it) is less convincing, though it's part of the picture of course. The quotes below were the response to me pushing her. That's not a defense, that's giving in.

oh lord not this again

more later when my mind isn't fuzzy

TPR I think I get what people have been saying when they said you feel town. Bc you do.

She's by far the best lynch we could have today, I believe and know that. I just don't know how to explain it to you.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Purple Rose, what are your reads on the other players in the game?

[The Purple Rose]

you town, t-bone town, bulba town, in that order. Bulba might have buddied me on the best moment possible, but I am currently guessing he was just town. Gut scum on sangres, but no concrete reasons, so I didn't posted more then onliners about it. But if I had to guess for a scumbuddy for pitoli, it's them. They are somehow always having different thoughts the then rest of the town. Seen the way etl and tip interacted, I'd say Etl is scum rather then TIP.

And that's about it.

So, can we lynch pitoli now or are you still telling me it's silly to still push her if she more or less gave in after the push and then disappeared. You can accuse me of lurking, but the above reads (without perhaps sangres, that might be hard to find) have been in my posts. The real lurker, who didn't produce anything concrete for over a week now, you won't vote because so much happened lately. How does that make sense? You are actually letting lurking work on you, while she was very scummy when she posted.

[TheIrishPope]

Sooooo much waffling

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I took the liberty of linking your responses to the quotes, which you neglected to do for reference. Or you purposely chose to omit them so the context is lost. It's one or the other.

Okay, I would like everyone to keep something in mind. While the whole game has lasted over a week for the rest of you, the entire game has just happened for me in the last day, so everything is fresh in my mind.

But seriously ETL is my strongest scumread.

Vote: ETL

. I wasn't joking when I asked him why he's scum. Why is he scum T-Bone? Well I'm glad you asked. I find ETL's to drop some pretty scum motivated posting. I'll point some out and explain the behind the scenes stuff I see going on.

TiP was pretty clearly looking for stupid scum. There are better ways to get better reactions for better information but I see this as a town tell.

Why pitoli or F-16? I see nothing exceptional on this page.

he's looking for a buddy in TIP. It's scummy to me when a player tries to explain someone else's actions. That's how scum can go "look at me contributing!". I don't like players who go 'look at me contributing!'

"It's scummy to try to explain someone else's actions"? So, giving my impression of what occurred... is scummy. Right.

I'm a daycop. I scanned Pitoli and got a guilty.

You realize that if we lynch her and she flips town, you're dead, right?

"Oh let me set up a lynch all coy like'.

Please read the post I was responding to, and my response. Consider that I believed the possibility of a daycop. Consider that I took the post at face value, and attempted to get him to own his "claim" or discard it. What I see here is a blatant stretching of what was going on in the thread to suit your own ends. If I was trying to set up a lynch on Pitoli, don't you think I'd have been trying a little harder than this?

[quote="TB]

It's nice having an IC in this game. Though I kind of feel like it was just a cruel joke by BBmolla in a game called "There Is No Doctor". -.-

He wants to plant some doubt about the Innocent Child. That's good, scum want that doubt in the air.[/quote]
I think you'd have to be an idiot to believe that I'm attempting to cast doubt on

A FUCKING MOD-CONFIRMED SLOT.

TIP whatcha doin TIP? Your ISO is full of shit. Like actual shit. It's dripping down the screen. You need to come here and clean this up right away.

Fucking nonsense and nothing posts. Horrific.

VOTE: TiP

No progression into changing his read from F-16 to TIP. It just suddenly happens, and he rages too, because a lot of players do that on this site (me included) so it seems innocent enough right? This is the post that originally set me off in my first read, and I immediately posted in the thread after finishing that page. RE: my first post. Other than trying to justify TIP earlier in the game his posts have been devoid of anyone really but F-16 to this point.

Uh.... are you like... on drugs? Please look at TIP's ISO from game start to this point, post 104. Do I have to spell out what is fucking IN THE THREAD? TIP was being a trolltard and I wanted to push him. This is also barely page 4. What exactly were you expecting... a full reads list with defined explanations, quotes and cases?

Wow. Look at that cop out. He has asked you to justify your suspicion and you shoot back with that?

VOTE: TPR

Don't like this, because the post he is reacting to from TPR is the most townie thing anyone has said this game.

I obviously didn't think so. (But that's scummy right? Pushing people you think are scum?)

More nonsense from TiP.

Anyway... do you know how often people "catch" scum on D1? In RVS no less? Except not really because they weren't lynched. You don't catch scum until they are lynched.

P-edit: TiP is a trolly troll. Why you feed him, Bulb?

Hate hate hate this. "people don't often catch scum on Day 1....(so why bother amiright?)"

Please quote me where I ever said, or even implied, that there's no reason to try on D1?
And, again you neglected to keep the context. I was replying to Bulbazak's post, where he claimed to have "caught" scum on D1. My stating that scum aren't caught until they are lynched is scummy, though, according to you.

What are y'all talking about
It's not even page 10
Chill

I've caught scum on page 1.

What?

They got away in the end, but I still caught them.

I don't like arguments against pitoli.

i dont want to lynch sangres or bbulbd. or tpr.

f16 bothers me. BUGS ME SO MUCH. there is definitely something fucking off about him.

i got nothin on chaso. tip is also confusing. like bulb but on the opposit spectram.

actually fuck it. f16 is going to bother mefor the rest of the game if he lasts through it. ehll if i last through it. i'm probably dying tonight which sucks.

VOTE: f16

Hate this too. F-16 was town when it suited his agenda. Now F-16 is scum again. That's not an evolving read, that's a read of convenience.

You really are an idiot. I've been saying for I don't know how long that something is fucking off with F16 and I want to get to the fucking bottom of it. Not to mention the fact that I was catching up with the thread at the time of this post AND I WAS FUCKING DRUNK. For fucks sake.

I'm gonna sheep TPR today. She is the only one I'm certain could not be scum.

Because of the playerlist I have reasons for everyone to possibly be scum. Through all the massive walls I cant figure out who is scummier. She is the least scummy so she must be town.

Similar thing. Now TPR is town because again, it suits some agenda. That's not an evolving read. Calling the playerlist scum for wall posting...again, that's not reads that are fluid and evolving...it's as if ETL isn't keeping track of his own reads, and instead the reads he is posting look fake because of it.

"When it suits some agenda" lol... and what agenda is that, please? Also, where did I fucking say that everyone on the playerlist was scum because they post walls? Hint: I didn't. What did say was that clogging up the thread with massive wall responses back and forth made it difficult to read. I named 3 specific individuals: Sangres, F16, and Bulbazak. I stated that it was scummy. Scummy. Not that the entire playerlist is scum. That those three were doing a scummy thing. I already explained my thinking on TPR. Several times.

LS do you catch a lot of scum in your history as a townie?

'Let me attack the credibility of a town-confirmed player'. Sorry, LastSurvivor's reads are the most important and trump everyone else's right now.

LMAO. NOW I KNOW YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT. That's an attack? wow. It was an honest question. It wasn't a comment on his skills or a criticism. If it was, it would have been a statement, and not a fucking question. And guess what - no, his reads are not the most important nor do they trump anyone's because whether he's confirmed or not, his ability to find scum is not confirmed. No one's is. When I see evidence to that fact I will sheep that person if I am not confident enough in my own skills compared to theirs.

Um yeah, that's ETL in short. Any questions?

Um yeah, you can fuck off with your case full of misreps and omissions and deliberate manipulations of context.

VOTE: TBag

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I really like that vote. Especially given his statement about LS. It only seems logical that scum would attempt to buddy the fuckin conftown.

[Bulbazak]

I have to say, that I'm sad to see chaosomega go, I hoped him to be my buddy to push the pitoli wagon with. I do feel justified in my townread there from T-bone's post.

Vote TheIrishPope

I'm really not seeing ETL-scum.

You've had a town read on Tip this whole goddamn game.

I no longer have any strong scumreads. Deadline is approaching. I'm compromising. Deal with it.

Sooooo much waffling

How is that waffling?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Bulbazak, what are your thoughts about the Purple Rose?

[fferyllt]

BulbaFenix - hydra of bulbazak and EddieFenex

Although this is a hydra, bulba accounted for a significant amount of the posts and thoughts, particularly the reads lists and read defenses.

NY165- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29163

They replaced into a fast moving game that had over 500 posts in early day 1.

the first reads list - He had a ton of reads categories, and 5 scum reads, including the player that Eddie had voted earlier. This reads list was the start of my troubles with him in the game because I disagreed with some of the players in that list, including the one he was voting for.

Post 866 absolutely did my head in during the game, and pretty much does the same in reread. It's wall of quotes and responses, with one null-ish response to one null-ish comment by dramonic. The main thrust is the continuation of an argument with ProHawk after which he changes their vote to dramonic. Nothing in that post explains the vote change. In post 895 he explains that dramonic is a viable wagon while ProHawk isn't.

^^ This kinda stands out wrt to the current game

Post 909

I was still poking at the vote change. Result was read strength: Prohawk > Dramonic > Stevie, but ProHawk was the least lynchable of the bunch. As it turned out, all three were town.

Dramonic and Serene claimed masons (it was a fake claim, but they were both town) and eventually EddieFenex head moved their vote to Nero, who was mislynched on day 1. ProHawk was scum-killed on Night 1.

Day 2, post 2137, Bulba goes back to Stevie. Post 2187, he reacts more or less in real time to a post by DOMO and votes him. This time he's on scum btw. Also, trajectory! I didn't have to go through a whole series of Q&A to figure out what this vote was about.

In 2387 Bulba moves the vote back to Stevie, apparently because of the immediately preceed post by Stevie.

In retrospect, the conversation that started happening at this point in the thread was potentially the key that could have unlocked the game for town. Cephrir chainsaw-defended DOMO, Zdenek was scum reading bulba's attack on DOMO as opportunistic, and DOMO to some extent disengaged from the fray. This argument between bulba, Ceph and Zdenek continued off and on for the next two days and contributed to bulba's mislynch.

In post 2577, he moved the vote back to DOMO. The trajectory on this vote was strong, as a side note.

post 2705 is a full reads list.

Post 3257 he posts a quotewall case on Ceph and votes him. Side note: my post 3286 will live in infamy. That was terrible. It's around this point where I got serious about pushing bulba's lynch.

From this point, his postings become more divided between fighting off his lynch and continuing to push his cases on his scum reads, particularly Cephrir and Zdenek.

he was eventually lynched the following day, and the game thread was open for several hours (nearly a day iirc) before the mod was around. During that time bulba helped set up a reaction test that basically cleared a town player under a lot of suspicion, and did a tremendous amount of documentation of his scum reads and cases.

Whatever I thought of his play prior being lynched at the time (and I thought he was scum), his play after being hammered was exemplary town.

-------

This game, maybe due to the size isn't so much about binary reads. I didn't find any examples where he did a full flip from town to scum. It was more about priotizing scum reads, and moving reads up into null category or down into scum category.

My caution about misreading him did its own binary flip as a result of this game. His extremely aggressive stances are a hallmark of what I see as his town game. Something that is missing in this game.

[sangres]

BulbaFenix - hydra of bulbazak and EddieFenex

Although this is a hydra, bulba accounted for a significant amount of the posts and thoughts, particularly the reads lists and read defenses.

NY165- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29163

They replaced into a fast moving game that had over 500 posts in early day 1.

the first reads list - He had a ton of reads categories, and 5 scum reads, including the player that Eddie had voted earlier. This reads list was the start of my troubles with him in the game because I disagreed with some of the players in that list, including the one he was voting for.

Post 866 absolutely did my head in during the game, and pretty much does the same in reread. It's wall of quotes and responses, with one null-ish response to one null-ish comment by dramonic. The main thrust is the continuation of an argument with ProHawk after which he changes their vote to dramonic. Nothing in that post explains the vote change. In post 895 he explains that dramonic is a viable wagon while ProHawk isn't.

^^ This kinda stands out wrt to the current game

Post 909

I was still poking at the vote change. Result was read strength: Prohawk > Dramonic > Stevie, but ProHawk was the least lynchable of the bunch. As it turned out, all three were town.

Dramonic and Serene claimed masons (it was a fake claim, but they were both town) and eventually EddieFenex head moved their vote to Nero, who was mislynched on day 1. ProHawk was scum-killed on Night 1.

Day 2, post 2137, Bulba goes back to Stevie. Post 2187, he reacts more or less in real time to a post by DOMO and votes him. This time he's on scum btw. Also, trajectory! I didn't have to go through a whole series of Q&A to figure out what this vote was about.

In 2387 Bulba moves the vote back to Stevie, apparently because of the immediately preceed post by Stevie.

In retrospect, the conversation that started happening at this point in the thread was potentially the key that could have unlocked the game for town. Cephrir chainsaw-defended DOMO, Zdenek was scum reading bulba's attack on DOMO as opportunistic, and DOMO to some extent disengaged from the fray. This argument between bulba, Ceph and Zdenek continued off and on for the next two days and contributed to bulba's mislynch.

In post 2577, he moved the vote back to DOMO. The trajectory on this vote was strong, as a side note.

post 2705 is a full reads list.

Post 3257 he posts a quotewall case on Ceph and votes him. Side note: my post 3286 will live in infamy. That was terrible. It's around this point where I got serious about pushing bulba's lynch.

From this point, his postings become more divided between fighting off his lynch and continuing to push his cases on his scum reads, particularly Cephrir and Zdenek.

he was eventually lynched the following day, and the game thread was open for several hours (nearly a day iirc) before the mod was around. During that time bulba helped set up a reaction test that basically cleared a town player under a lot of suspicion, and did a tremendous amount of documentation of his scum reads and cases.

Whatever I thought of his play prior being lynched at the time (and I thought he was scum), his play after being hammered was exemplary town.

-------

This game, maybe due to the size isn't so much about binary reads. I didn't find any examples where he did a full flip from town to scum. It was more about priotizing scum reads, and moving reads up into null category or down into scum category.

My caution about misreading him did its own binary flip as a result of this game. His extremely aggressive stances are a hallmark of what I see as his town game. Something that is missing in this game.

I would slip on a huge post.

[T-Bone]

Bulba, you said you're compromising and we should 'deal with it'...

Except there aren't really any leading wagons at this point.

[T-Bone]

Whoops for doubling posting....what is your take away from all that fferylit? You typed and quoted quite a bit, and I don't know what you want me, the reader, to conclude.

[sangres]

I'm looking at prior games to see if I can confirm that bulba has a tendency to do binary read-flips as he's done in this game (per F-16's post 547). Nacho likes the theory and so do I, but we want to see if it holds in other games.

The first two games, I've restricted myself to games bulba and I both played because I thought it would be faster to go through games I'm already familiar with. I'm going to do one more of that category and then maybe skim a few recent smaller games that he's played.

[Bulbazak]

Bulbazak, what are your thoughts about the Purple Rose?

Divided. I'm unsure if her patronizing tone is indicative of scum or town, and at points it feels like a strange sort of buddying. However, I could also see how she could think that way as town. One thing's for certain, if either her or T-Bone is scum, the other isn't.

His extremely aggressive stances are a hallmark of what I see as his town game. Something that is missing in this game.

I'm trying to find a playstyle that works for me. While I liked my play in that game, and that aggression had been a trademark of it, I've found that such aggression has not served me well elsewhere. I think there's a time and place for that, but I've been unable so far to balance that out, and when I end up aimless, that type of aggression will be noticeably absent.

Bulba, you said you're compromising and we should 'deal with it'...

Except there aren't really any leading wagons at this point.

Irregardless, TIP is a good compromise wagon. My vote's going to sit here for now.

[TheIrishPope]

Irregardless isn't a word
And I am definitely not a good compromise wagon

[Bulbazak]

And I am definitely not a good compromise wagon

Actually you are. If scum, we only have your partner to find, and if town, then we really haven't lost anything, as you're really not contributing.

[T-Bone]

I don't like your 'compromise', because a lack of wagons precludes that option, but I'm okay with the rest of #638.

[TheIrishPope]

I'm not contributing? Come on man get real

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

T-Bone, you never answered my question about your reads on other players. What are they?

Bulbazak, who do you think are likely partners for TIP?

[Bulbazak]

Bulbazak, who do you think are likely partners for TIP?

No clue. I'd probably look back for associations if he flipped scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Just ISO'd TIP in this game: Open 527. I didn't see his affiliation but was able to tell that he was town from his ISO - I was right. Mostly, it came from his 902 and 905. He didn't ask a lot of probing questions but there was a sort of genuineness that I can't quantify. This makes me want Nacho's opinion even more.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Bulbazak, you implied in 151 that part of your TIP townread was based on meta. Can you elaborate? Which games are you referring to and what were you looking for?

[Bulbazak]

Bulbazak, you implied in 151 that part of your TIP townread was based on meta. Can you elaborate? Which games are you referring to and what were you looking for?

I was thinking about NY 165. His early day posting seemed similar to that game.

[BBmolla]

Votecount 1.11

Bulbazak - 2 - sangres Lastsurvivor
TheIrishPope - 2 - pitoli, Bulbazak
pitoli - 1 - The Purple Rose
T-Bone - 1 - EspeciallyTheLies,
The Purple Rose - 1 - TheIrishPope
EspeciallyTheLies - 1 - T-Bone

Not Voting: F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Deadline: (expired on 2013-11-12 09:33:00)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Please let me know if the votecount is incorrect I feel like I messed something up.

[Lastsurvivor]

I no longer have any strong scumreads. Deadline is approaching. I'm compromising. Deal with it.

sdiaokhfncosduajlkhvodsikf you're compromising by voting someone you think is town????

can we lynch this PLEASE

And I am definitely not a good compromise wagon

Actually you are. If scum, we only have your partner to find, and if town, then we really haven't lost anything, as you're really not contributing.

We don't GAIN anything either, since TiP hasn't really contributed. He hasn't done much analysis for us to look at tomorrow, and no one has done any real pushes against him except for "lolcompromise."