NY 167: COMPLETELY NORMAL Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Angry Frat BROs]

I expect you to be able to tell our heads apart :/

[goodmorning]

THINGS ARE HAPPENING

Votecount 1.40

Angry Frat BROs [L-4] - likeabauss, Toomai, Guyett, Hermy, RadiantCowbells

orcinus_theoriginal [L-6] - Sakura Hana, sangres, TheIrishPope

JacobSavage [L-6] - MC Maraca, Cephrir, yessiree

Guyett [L-8] - PeregrineV

Sakura Hana [L-8] - orcinus_theoriginal

likeabauss [L-8] - Angry Frat BROs

Not Voting [3] - JacobSavage, caledfwitch, MVP

With 17 alive, it takes

9

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2013-11-20 09:39:00)

[sangres]

I expect you to be able to tell our heads apart :/

I thought I was talking to BRO. Sorry.

[Angry Frat BROs]

You called me AP

[sangres]

BRO-you = BRO head of AFB.

[Cephrir]

What more can orcinus do if bauss won't produce the evidence? Flip the fuck out? He started to a little but we should hardly DEMAND that people ATE when shitty unsubstantiated cases are thrown at them.

You pretty much ignored the threeish posts of ATE, too, I'd expect at least a comment there if you didn't like them.

[sangres]

Ceph, I've seen Orcinus react to being tunneled before. It's happened to our hydra. And Nacho went after him in the Chosen game just a few weeks ago. This game dynamic is different because of replacing in at 40-ish pages and I'm personally waiting to see how it goes when he's around again. Whether it's "enough" ATE 1) doesn't address the other concerns and 2) doesn't really touch on what we feel like is missing from his reaction to being tunneled.

[Angry Frat BROs]

BRO-you = BRO head of AFB.

Ah, I misread it :/

[Toomai]

V/LA done.

I'll vote for whichever of o_to or AFB is necessary to lynch, since I believe fairly solidy at this point that likeabauss is town. If either target happens to be town we can just lynch him Day 2 since I see no way there's a bus here.

...Lol. You lining up lynches?

If nothing happens to change my current opinion, then yeah I guess you could say that.

[Cephrir]

So, therefore, you expect the target in question to be town...?

[MC Maraca]

Mara, that feels like a cop out and that makes me a sad panda.

I'm not asking for your support just to get a lynch

or lead a charge! (I'm actually insulted at the insinuation.)

I'm only asking for your support to lynch FratBoys, because of my confidence in my read

. I could play 10 more games and not have a read I feel so strongly about. This sort of vote whoring is not something I do often or take lightly.

How about you just help me lynch FratBros so we can end this day and start fresh tomorrow? I'll take any vote, it doesn't have to be principled or committed to the cause. Frivolous or frustrated is fine. He's a tough one to lynch, I know. But I'm going to give it all I've got and your vote would help speed things along.

FratBros, don't call me retarded ever again. K thx bai.

those two are one in the same

and I really, cannot read all of this genuine emotion as scum.
I can't support a FratBoys lynch

I can support an Orci-lynch though

[MC Maraca]

Why don't you tell me what you think of Jacob?

[Toomai]

So, therefore, you expect the target in question to be town...?

I do not. I'm just stating my opinion of what I would do should it occur.

To put it another way - I currently believe that likeabauss is town. I'm currently convinced that [likeabauss, AFB] and [likeabauss, orcinus] are pairs of differing factions (whether I'm right about which one is town or not), and by extension that there is 1 scum in each pair.

[Guyett]

Bauss, you can read Rank very well right? You're sure his slot is scum right?
Why are you not voting for that slot?

[Sakura Hana]

Bauss, you can read Rank very well right? You're sure his slot is scum right?
Why are you not voting for that slot?

Inb4 orc thinks you're scum, for parroting again the exact same question he asked and I asked.

[Guyett]

VOTE: Orc

I still like Bros for scum but I don't like the wagon.

[PeregrineV]

What's up guys? I'm back!!

Vote: Angry Frat Bros.

[Cephrir]

I can't help feeling both these wagons are scum driven. Particularly AFB, if I were scum and they weren't I'd be scared to death of them. Why don't the wagon voters have anything to say about whoeveritwas' meta regarding Bro? If you don't agree, tell me why.

Probably moving my vote soon but only because it's not doing any good right now.

[Cephrir]

Maybe I'll leave it, I guess we have three now. I may present a case and then not vote it?

By the way, caled hasn't posted in this game in 5.5 days...

[likeabauss]

Here's some. I spoilered my original accusations and bolded FratBros responses for ease of reference and scroll management.

Spoiler:

1) Al Capone Ego (psychobabble) This is tied to the "Proof or GTFO." Al Capone ego goes something like this "You can't PROVE I killed those people, even though everybody knows I did." I hinted at pieces of this in earlier posts, and he's done it a coupe times. He's refuting an argument strictly because I can't prove it... like proving anything on D1 in mafia is possible. This is scum behavior.

OR IT'S TOWN TRYING TO WORK WITH SOMEONE TO TURN AROUND A SHITTY READ.

No. The nuance here is that you were/are demanding proof of something that you know nobody can prove. I can't prove you're guilty, nobody can. It's D1. There is no proof. Why ask for it? It's an absolutely useless post. You could've said "I disagree" or "That's not a strong enough tell on it's own" or any number of other dequalifiers.

Spoiler:

2) Guilty Conscience (psychobabble) Talked about it previously.

AKA BULLSHIT THAT YOU'RE SPEWING TO MAKE ME LOOK WORSE

This isn't really an appropriate response. You can't just say "BS" to refute an argument. Here's a primer on how word choices provide insights into the brain:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/let ... they-speak
There are much more in depth applications. It can be very effective, until the subject (you in this case) is aware that reading of that nature is going on. (This is a big part of why I keep my cases to myself, and don't always explain my reads in great detail. These are some cool tools that I use frequently in mafia, but the more I talk about them the less effective they become with people who are aware.)

Spoiler:

3) Momentum shift onto easy Guyett wagon (Guyett seems pretty clearly ambivalent/frustrated town to me) Anti-town behavior to run up on D1 so fast and hard, and setup a lynch with so little contributions from other players.

"IT'S ANTI-TOWN TO PUSH WAGONS AND APPLY PRESSURE. ESPECIALLY AGAINST PEOPLE YOU'RE SCUMREADING." ARE YOU REALLY THIS FUCKING RETARDED

This is either a misrep, or your skimming my posts. Earlier, in 795, I talked about why this move was shady. It was early on D1, with a number of players not having contributed much yet, and you helped accelerate a wagon right in the middle of some content development that was starting from players who had previously not been adding much. Town needs conversation and interactions between players to flesh out reads. It wasn't just that you pushed the wagon, it was also the TIMING of it. It was anti-town in nature.

Spoiler:

4) Setting up for future easy lynch targets - talked about this previously

"HE'S SCUM, THEREFORE WHAT HE DOES IS SCUMMY." CIRCULAR LOGIC FTW YOU FUCKWAD.

I especially like this one. Again you didn't actually refute or challenge my case. You said clearly, earlier, that of all the active posters you had townreads on. You further stated that the scum were not posting. This is positioning, plain and simple. Generally speaking, people who post less are easier to lynch than active players. They don't defend as much, they lack the body of work that allows other players to develop proper reads on them, etc. etc.

Note: This behavior also directly contradicts with your behavior above on the Guyett wagon. If you say you want the scum to start posting so you can find them, why did you rush the Guyett wagon to L-2? Why not draw the non-posters into the conversation? When actions and behaviors don't match up with what you're saying, it's generally because you're scum.

Spoiler:

5) Defending scum buddy Orcinus (this is leveraged, and I know most will skip over it, fine. But Orcinus is also scum and FratBoys actively defended the slot before even attempting to sort said slot.) I asked a similar line to Cabd. Why does a townie defend another player that they haven't strongly sorted from another player? Especially if the accusing player is a townread.

"OH EM GEE, I USED SHITTY LOGIC TO SCUMREAD HIM, AND IT'S SCUMMY OF HIM TO POINT OUT WHEN I USE THAT SAME SHITTY LOGIC ON SOMEONE ELSE." THERE'S NO WAY YOU'RE THIS FUCKING RETARDED. I REFUSE TO BELIEVE IT.

Like I said, this is leveraged. In order to make sense of this read, you have to operate under the premise that Orcinus is scum. My read on Rank replacing out was much different than the replacement prod I threw at you earlier for discussion. But, for giggles, let's explore it a bit farther...

Why, if you were townreading me at the time (please correct me if I'm wrong assumption), did you jump in to defend the Rank/Orcinus slot? He wasn't catching votes. If the logic/premise of the argument was shit, let Orcinus defend it himself. Why did you HELP him? You stepped in on behalf of somebody who's alignment you hadn't even sorted yet (please correct me if I'm wrong with this assumption.)

Spoiler:

6) Steering conversation - things like shutting down an interrogation into another suspect, trying to get people to focus back on what he states/says is important, etc. Theres several examples of this. It's anti-town behavior, and most often scum.

POINT OUT WHERE I'VE DONE THIS. OH WAIT, YOU CAN'T, BECAUSE YOU'RE MAKING SHIT UP AGAIN.

This is harder to point to, because it is more of an ebb and flow of the game. Timing, etc. I had a discussion with Mollie and Nacho I think about this in another game. I'll let this point slide for now rather than try to explain it, because it would require a lot of words and this post is already getting beefy, again. Note, I'm not conceding this point... I just don't want to whargarbl up the thread anymore than I have to.

Spoiler:

7) Wanting to lynch RC despite what I perceive as an in thread subtle vouch (Post 269) I stuck this in there because it supports a few of the above items. Orcinus is also conveniently on this maneuver.

RC IS FUCKING RETARDED AND SCUMMY. THAT'S TWO GOOD REASONS TO WANT TO LYNCH SOMEONE

This response isn't really a suitable defense either. Somebody else in thread said quite clearly that RC was acting far outside of normal meta/context. This suggested quite clearly to me, reading between the lines, that it was deliberate. Subsequent conversation with RC verified that it was in fact deliberate. Whether it is scummy or not isn't the question... it's that you pushed a lynch on it rather than consider the possibilities or scenarios that would explain the strange departure in behavior. (Personally, I don't think scum would actively draw attention in the way RC did, so I moved that behavior to the null/town side... not scum.)

Spoiler:

8) Overly defensive - example: he defended against an OBVIOUS joke I made about Jersey Shore and GTL. Not even a chuckle, or laugh, and he didn't just glaze over it. He addressed it directly like it had merit. There's a few other examples. He's still trying to refute me, despite having a SINGLE vote on him and not being in any trouble. This is tied to #2 and #1 lightly, but is scummy behavior in its own right. To clarify a bit, this is a departure from expected behaviors. Look at his post 343. He cuts up RC for doing exactly what he does later with my joke. Pretty lol IMO. Again in 607 about taking jokes seriously.

SORRY NOT SORRY THAT NEITHER I NOR MY PARTNER WATCH THAT PIECE OF SHIT SHOW, AND THEREFORE DIDN'T GET YOUR RETARDED JOKE

You didn't/don't have to watch the show to derive clearly that I was making a joke or being facetious. There's literally nothing serious or substantive in the entire reference. Let's reread it again:

Plus, there was the whole "Gym fist, then knowledge." Everybody knows you can't skip tanning and laundry and go straight to schooling bitches. GTL, then lynching scum. Get your mind right first. Only gready grimy scum would suggest skipping the laundromat.

You defended against that. You actually wrote a defense like it was an accusation. After earlier in the game saying you guys joke a lot, and even railing on somebody else for not getting a joke. 343, 607.


More soon.

[likeabauss]

Guyett, you should come back to FratBros. With your vote, we're only 3 away from lynch.

[Guyett]

But I don't like that 3 of the voters are lurkers...

[Cephrir]

Must...resist...urge to answer things that aren't directed at me...

[Guyett]

I'm aware its a bit hypocritical of me to talk smack about lurkers

[TheIrishPope]

When someone references psychological stuff... they're probably scum.
So yeah orcinus vote is best vote.