Newbie 1437 - Chocolate Fondue Mafia (Over)

[geraintm]

People who think I am scum need to think why I as scum would be so against everyone claiming.

You're not reading - it's to avoid what happened with clearing people!

A masclaim would do the exact opposite of clearing people, because scum would counter claim.

[geraintm]

possible scum teams.

Flay-Ger
Flay-number 0ne
Flay-theduck

Ger-number0ne
Ger-theduck
Ger-flay

Number0ne-Flay
Number0ne-Ger

Theduck-flay
Theduck-Ger

WOO

Some of these are duplicates.
For you, you only have to worry about

Flay - duck
Flay - number 1
Geraint - duck
Geraint - number 1

(And flay -Geraint but please discount that)
We can discount the duck - number 1 option

[jmo16mla]

I'm aware there are duplicates...

[DeasVail]

Vote Count 3.05

Mr. Flay (1)- geraintm
geraintm (1)- Mr. Flay

Not Voting: The-Duck, Number_0ne, jmo16mla

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline

19th November 4pm AEDT. This is in (expired on 2013-11-19 01:00:00)

[geraintm]

Sorry jmo

Ok, going to go through flays 517 post now
Paragraph a - him dismissing me and him as partners. Surprisingly I agree

Paragraph b -why have I given number 1 a pass after my initial read. Well, I had come to the conclusion flay was scum. I leaned towards jmo as his buddy. But actively finding the other scum was not important. We have to lynch correctly today, and voting/chat/something from the power role would likely identify the other scum.

Paragraph c - this is terrible. Why on earth is he going on about rethinking scum pairing and including duck/number 1. Post 514 had proved they were not a possible scum pair.
I don't get get what post 447 has to do with jmos eventual claim which was in 463.

The working. I don't follow the maths. I would like to point out though that it is irrelevant, if the reason I am top scum is because scum have voted me too...
Next is flays case againstme.
I can't reply to the first 7
I did tin my very first post make a case against anyone. I knew I didn't have time, but I felt it rude to not come and say hello and flag up that I would have something to co elater.

9 - not sure what to say. I think mass claiming is useless. There was only one person who had anything to claim, everyone else goes "hey, I am vanilla townie". If they had something useful to say then they can say it, I want the to decide not be forced into it by someone else. Wait, this is exactly what jmo ends up saying. In post 432.
10 - I'd point out 464 where you can be seen as coaching your partner to obviously not counterclaim.

Going to post this now so I don't lose it All.

[geraintm]

11- I was I admit thinking jmo was your buddy. I had during my read found that jmo was awfully close to you in a non obvious way. I thought this was because you and him were a team, I would not have expected jmo to have tracked you and not got any evidence.
12- totally agree
13- post 447 is me explaining to jmo my post 444 where I said I thought he wanted to hammer flay the next dAy. He was confused becUse he hadn't wanted to hammer flay, he had wanted to lynch flay. So if you read 448, you see me saying I got my terminology mixed up between hammer and lynch. This whole part was me confused, jmo had said at the end of the previous day he wanted to lynch flay yet the next day, he has flay as more trusted than me. This was part of the reason I had jmo as flays buddy, he was saying one thing (omg, I want to lynch flay) and then later saying he trusted flay.
14- I had waited for number 1 post 449. He had posted and not given a reason to not vote for flay

Think that is allo need to say.
Hard to argue against a scum, but it hope people see that flay is brining things up and I have answered them as best I can, pointing out where I am being consistent.
If anyone else has things to ask me, please do. I'll do my best to answer them, time wise right nowis nearly 9pm Sunday, during the day tomorrow i'llbe on my phone so expect short posts

[jmo16mla]

I'll look over flay and Ger. obviously one is scum. I felt Ger was town when he appeared and immediatly built his case against flay.

Now, I'm still not throwing out flay and ger team.. Is it unlikely? sure. but youd get massive town points for it.

[Mr. Flay]

Paragraph c - this is terrible. Why on earth is he going on about rethinking scum pairing and including duck/number 1. Post 514 had proved they were not a possible scum pair.

Actually it doesn't. Duck unvoted at 8:30, Number_0ne finally posted at 9:22. They were never on at the same time to quicklynch, thus they cannot be ruled out. I think it's UNLIKELY, because it would also require you to be Town from my perspective, but it is in no way a clear of that pairing.

People who think I am scum need to think why I as scum would be so against everyone claiming.

You're not reading - it's to avoid what happened with clearing people!

A masclaim would do the exact opposite of clearing people, because scum would counter claim.

Well, that's certainly preferrable to what happened, isn't it? Also earlier you said "we'd just get 4 VTs and a PR". Which is it, ger?

The working. I don't follow the maths. I would like to point out though that it is irrelevant, if the reason I am top scum is because scum have voted me too...

The "math" is not that hard - it compares everybody's lists and breaks it down into pairwise comparisons. The person who comes out 'higher' on the lists is the 'winner', and the person who wins the most pairwise contests (four, in this case, because there's five people) is the overall winner. Either way you look at it, the five lists - that means THREE TOWN and TWO SCUM - combined to rank me Towniest and you Scummiest. In a prior game this same system for massclaim resulted in the scum being #1, #2 for Scummiest. It's not a perfect system but it gathers a lot more information concisely than traditional scumhunting, and makes it so the scummiest people claim first. jmo would have gone second to last, and thus someone might have tried a fakeclaim before him. Then we'd have had an easier choice, because fakeclaim vs. realclaim is easier to winnow out than what we have now, which is argumentation-based VT vs VT. I like arguing as much as the next guy, but...

13- post 447 is me explaining to jmo my post 444 where I said I thought he wanted to hammer flay the next dAy. He was confused becUse he hadn't wanted to hammer flay, he had wanted to lynch flay. So if you read 448, you see me saying I got my terminology mixed up between hammer and lynch. This whole part was me confused, jmo had said at the end of the previous day he wanted to lynch flay yet the next day, he has flay as more trusted than me. This was part of the reason I had jmo as flays buddy, he was saying one thing (omg, I want to lynch flay) and then later saying he trusted flay.

You've missed my entire point of quoting 444. 444 is not about your confusion, it is about my read that you (as scum) were focused on the fact that you would have jmo on your side for a mislynch today, which is why you felt comfortable starting off with a scum vote, instead of waiting for some other Townie to start the LyLo voting. You have been ASTONISHED from start to finish by jmo's actions today, and it's thrown your whole scheme into a cocked hat. That's the only thing you're "confused" about.

[geraintm]

Quick reply

It does prove they are not together. If they were buddies, he never would have invited, and lynched with yours, his and his partner.

Part 2 - I didn't bother following the maths because it is irrelevant, nearly everyone voting is scum and so voting wrong. It isn't shocking that I come top of the lists if I am town, as scum are just not going to point the finger at themselves.
I find this whole thing a waste of time discussing, things have moved on well past scum lists to the point now where people have to decide between me and you.

Will write more
But this is pointless, I can't keep arguing with flay (for the rest of you, this is true, you are just watching a scum and townie shouting at each other) Jmo, duck and number 1 need to contribute.

[Mr. Flay]

You are actually not making any sense. How is "nearly everyone voting" scum? Two players out of five, four if you discount yourself. Everyone gave a ranking, one way or another. Are you saying some of those rankings are lies? Of course they are, that's why you take the aggregate result.

[Mr. Flay]

It does prove they are not together. If they were buddies, he never would have invited, and lynched with yours, his and his partner.

I have no idea what this even is trying to say. Look at them in ISO (I hope that link works).

I will agree that you and I arguing is not going to convince each other, we're mostly arguing for the masses now.

[geraintm]

Re post 535.

If duck and number one are partners, this is what happens

You vote me
One of them joins you - this was duck.
Duck waits for his scum buddy to post, vote me and they win.

All duck needs to do is wait for number one to vote and they win. He just waits and waits.
That is how a duck number 1 partnership wins.
I am finding it difficult to understand how you cannot see this.

[geraintm]

Nearly everyone - sorry, misspoke, should have said near half of those voting. Sorry

[geraintm]

About part 3 of flays 532-
He seems convinced I would think I would have jmo on my side to lynch him quick
I am going to go through my interactions with jmo and see if this is the case

Post 412 - this is me highlighting early on in my summary that I think flay and jmo are linked.
Post 414 - me pointing out again I think flay and jmo are linked in their voting
Post 419 - I actually spotted jmos hint about his night action and how weird a post it was! I also called jmo out omit, saying I couldn't understand jmo saying this. This was one of my reads where I found jmo's relationship with flay to be really, really odd. As in scum buddy odd.
Post 442 - me sayingi thought jmo's post looked scummy
Post 423 - me again saying jmo and flay are behaving really oddly between each other. I was from my read through saying jmo and flay were scum buddies.
Post 426 - me saying flay was buddying up to jmo, consistent with me thinking the pair were buddies
Post 428 - me criticizing jmo for complaining about the doctor's style of choosing votes whichever as actually the same as flays, who is believed was his buddy.
Post 431 - my summary. I say I believe flay is scum, and then saying if flay is scum I think jmo is too.

Flay has now spent today saying he believes that I thought I could have quickly got jmo to join me in lynching flay.
In fact, my summary of the game had lead me to believe out of everyone in the game, jmo would be the person least likely to vote for flay.

Flay has been trying to say the exact opposite all today about my relationship with jmo.

I hope this post by post recap of me thoughts on jmo show that flay has not just been misreseprent my thoughts on jmo, he has actively been saying the opposite. Jmo and then duck/number one, I hope you look at this and come to a conclusion about which of me and flay is most likely scum.

If I am scum as flay suggests, I would have had to enter the game as a new player as scum,decide to instead of letting this town which so far has had no success in picking scum to flail around,instead actively put myself front and center after not advocating a masclaim and instead make a case against someone else, knowing that there is a power role out there that could screw me over.
This after a newbie scum decides to leave the game, right at the point where he is entering a new night. I am not sure about any of you, but brand new players are unlikely to quit the game ass cum when they are so close to winning, it goes against everything I know about new payers. You join this game to be scum and kill people at night. He was doing this very successfully, not far off winning, and instead leaves. I am adding this in over and above my case against flay as a sort of character study of the player who previously playedme.

Jmo, duck/number one, you need to start posting more. 2 of you are town, you need as townies to post more. Townies are not being good townies if they are not posting.

[geraintm]

Duck and number 1 - from what I have read in the setup, you are both new players.
I know one of you is town.
I cannot stress enough that in this situation, where the game is very delicately poised, you have to pay attention. This sort of situation will be common in future games, where you have to reread a game and read the competing claims of two sides and make a choice who to vote for.
It will take some time, but this is actually the fun part, knowing that your decision is going to be vital to the end game. You have to put in the effort now. Out of everything else you take away from your first game, working out how to process the end game will be one of the most important. Partly why newbie games are so small, you get to the difficult end states quicker.
Please, whichever of you is town, have a read. I hope jmo and flay would agree with this general advice that you can't just not participate right now.

[Mr. Flay]

Please, whichever of you is town, have a read. I hope jmo and flay would agree with this general advice that you can't just not participate right now.

Absolutely. As said before, scum only have to pay enough attention to secure any quicklynch. Town have to pay enough attention to make the RIGHT lynch, and do so before deadline.

At this point almost half of D3 has passed...we have a week left.

[Number_0ne]

Please, whichever of you is town, have a read. I hope jmo and flay would agree with this general advice that you can't just not participate right now.

Well, I have my read. Apart from Jmo being cleared, my scumminess rankings remain the same. Mr Flay has built a reasonable case, and after his contributions to getting the game moving, I find that he's town. I also don't see your point about massclaiming in this way hurting town. It gave a clear, which already improves the chances of lynching scum. Also, I find that Geraintm is really trying to buddy me after me doing absolutely nothing, so that's fairly suspicious. As Mr. Flay pointed out, the possibility of me+duck as scum is not impossible, neither is him+geraintm. I just find the 2nd one to be highly unlikely, and only FMPOV (and duck's), the 1st is impossible.

I'm fairly sure that Mr. Flay is town, and so that leaves me with The-duck and Geraintm.

Vote: Geraintm

[The-Duck]

I really don't know what is polite to say now, but I do know that I need to hammer now.
VOTE: Geraintm

[Mr. Flay]

Damnit.

[Mr. Flay]

I should have unvoted when Number_0ne's post gave me the creeps.

[jmo16mla]

The duck number one anyone?

[Number_0ne]

The duck number one anyone?

I did mention it was possible

[jmo16mla]

I just want to say screw both of you guys for making this last longer than it should have. you both could have hammered like yesterday. thats the ONLY reason you were crossed off my list.

I tracked you last night.

[DeasVail]

Vote Count 3.06

geraintm (3)- Mr. Flay, Number_0ne, The-Duck

Mr. Flay (1)- geraintm

Not Voting: jmo16mla

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

A lynch has been reached.

[DeasVail]

After replacing his grandmother's fondue set with a plastic cup, DeasVail got back to pouring his cream. As he did so, however, a single hair dislodged itself from his head and glided its way down to the mixture of chocolate and cream. All who were witness to the following events of the day have been sworn to secrecy, but if one were to pay close enough attention, they may hear murmurings of the odd taste and texture of DeasVail's chocolate fondue.

Geraintm,

Vanilla Townie

, has been lynched Day 3.

A win condition has been achieved.

Mr. Flay,

Vanilla Townie

, has been endgamed Day 3.
jmo16mla,

Town Tracker

, has been endgamed Day 3.

Number_0ne and The-Duck,

Mafia Goons

, survive to win!

Mod QT (with night actions)
Dead QT

I'll leave it up to the mafia to release the mafia QT if they wish.