A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Messiah Complex]

Vote: Garruk Relentless

Quadz was 100% surviving yesterday until Kanye dragged everyone back to him with a new case--and it doesn't make any sense to refuse to bus Spyrex and then, having lost him, eagerly bus Quadz the next day.

- Des

[Garruk Relentless]

I love how you say kanye pushed the quadz wagon when it was ooba(http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5440276) and nacho(http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5447462 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5447428 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5447595) who drew attention to him there.

[Desperado]

I'm thinking Zed might be a better lynch.

Why?

In other news,
Unvote: Spyrex
Vote: elleheathen

Why?

I support the SpyreX wagon but like my lonely vote on Nautilius better for now.

I thiiiiink I'm ok with the Zdenek wagon as well, but need to pay more attention to him to make sure I still think he's scum. He's fallen off the radar for me, but it's more because I haven't been paying as much attention to his posts that anything else.

this is a pretty dang gross post if you think abt it w. spyscum and inno goat in mind.

quadz08 (9) -

ooba, Shadoweh, Messiah Complex, Cephrir, Titus, Goat on a Raft, Garruk Relentless, Tierce, AGar

quadz08 (2) -

Shadoweh, kanyesknowsbest

some 1 pls tell me wth.why did this wagon crumble after such a flimsy claim? whos the scum here who were bussing but then thought better of it when town showed interest elsewhere?

like the way he handled safetydances roleblock is not at all from the perspective of someone who was roleblocked that night. he would want to know whether or not sd was the one who roleblocked him or if there was the possibility of a scum roleblocker or jk in the game.

[Messiah Complex]

I'm thinking Zed might be a better lynch.

Why?

In other news,
Unvote: Spyrex
Vote: elleheathen

Why?

I support the SpyreX wagon but like my lonely vote on Nautilius better for now.

I thiiiiink I'm ok with the Zdenek wagon as well, but need to pay more attention to him to make sure I still think he's scum. He's fallen off the radar for me, but it's more because I haven't been paying as much attention to his posts that anything else.

this is a pretty dang gross post if you think abt it w. spyscum and inno goat in mind.

quadz08 (9) -

ooba, Shadoweh, Messiah Complex, Cephrir, Titus, Goat on a Raft, Garruk Relentless, Tierce, AGar

quadz08 (2) -

Shadoweh, kanyesknowsbest

some 1 pls tell me wth.why did this wagon crumble after such a flimsy claim? whos the scum here who were bussing but then thought better of it when town showed interest elsewhere?

like the way he handled safetydances roleblock is not at all from the perspective of someone who was roleblocked that night. he would want to know whether or not sd was the one who roleblocked him or if there was the possibility of a scum roleblocker or jk in the game.

[Messiah Complex]

Ooba and Nacho made the original push. Then Quadz claimed and the wagon dispersed. Then, as I said, Kanye dragged the town back to Quadz with a new case.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

And you didn't address why scum-Kanye refused to bus Spyrex and then changed his approach and bussed Quadz the very next day (without a NK to boot).

- Des

[Garruk Relentless]

Ooba and Nacho made the original push. Then Quadz claimed and the wagon dispersed. Then, as I said, Kanye dragged the town back to Quadz with a new case.

- Des

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=3900

Look at that and tell me it was Kanye who lynched quadz.

And you didn't address why scum-Kanye refused to bus Spyrex and then changed his approach and bussed Quadz the very next day (without a NK to boot).

- Des

I don't think Kanye wanted to bus Quadz, he was on "SafetyDunce" or Titus most of the day. He didn't even join the quadz wagon until after the Cop claim. I think d3, kanye thought that he could push through a Zed lynch(it was working for a while too) over SpyreX, and it would have been strange for him to 180 onto Spyre after that defense.

[Messiah Complex]

Do you know what it takes for SafetyDance to be scum? It requires him TRACKING ME NIGHT 2 and then being like "oh, actually I blocked him". What motivation does he have to do this as scum? Does he think that this makes him townier? How would he know that I wasn't a ninja? Etc. It also requires him BLOCKING quadz and claiming that he tracked him. What motivation does he have to not out his true claim? I was townier than quadz Day 2 and made more sense as a scum block anyways, why claim it?

I also don't understand why it took quadz getting wagonned to shit in order to claim that he was blocked when SD claimed to have tracked him. I think he was capitalizing on SD being a prickly fuck most of the time and people's dislike of how he claimed in order to bring forward a reason why SD could be scum in order to save himself. If I was town and I was in quadz's shoes, I would immediately respond with "fuck no you didn't track me N3 because scum role blocked me"; he tried to use that as retroactive reasoning for why he was pushing SD, but quadz was focusing on the claim mixup which was pretty much everyone else's problem with it. There's also no reason not to out earlier; he certainly didn't have to claim macho cop in order to get that bit out.

Now, as to the possibility of there being a scum blocker who blocked quads D3: slim. Slim as fuck. We have role blockers in Titus, elleheathen, and SD; the chances of a mysterious fourth scum blocker are a bit slim, for one. Secondly... the target makes no fucking sense for a scum blocker. quads didn't telegraph his innocents at all (aka he hid them so fucking much they're suspicious), so it's not because he was obv cop. It also would be a hell of a coincidence, and I haven't seen anyone else claim blocked.

And, if you look at it in terms of a 1v1, who has had the most chances to get out of it? SafetyDance. If he blocked quadz and tracked me, he could have had literally a hundred chances to go "oh, fuck, I actually blocked quads", which would prevent this entire 1v1 in the first place. But he maintains it even after quadz makes his claim, he maintains and taunts everyone about it constantly; I don't see scum pushing bullshit actions that he could claim honestly very very easily with so much conviction and so much passion. He isn't scum. Quadz is.

I had no idea this post existed. It's so fucking beautiful.

With that said, last I checked 3857 came before 3917. Kanye had already dug in to his quadz tunnel by the time Nacho put words to his case. You posit that scum-Kanye "didn't want" to bus Quadz and had his hand forced when there was absolutely no incentive for him to have done that. With three days to the deadline he could have just coasted to deadline with his scum buddy safe and sound--you know, kind of like

you tried to do

:

Both heads of this hydra are gonna be on relatively limited access til Sunday.

^

Immediately before Kanye started going after Quadz again

.

Building a narrative around an event is pretty easy--the tricky part is explaining

why

and this is where your case falls flat.

- Des

[PrideandJoy]

I was about to suggest an un-redirectable SK, but I guess that works too.

VOTE: Cephir

you can die.

Also I forgot, is there a reason to think tammy is town? I'll running out of scum possibilities. The only things left are ooba/Benmage/ and maybe Agar

[Cephrir]

<3 you too

[Tammy]

You mean besides me bleeding fucking town since page one? No, I don't have an idea.

Katsuki was a bad VIG kill. I wish I was around to try to talk some sense into that, not that it would have mattered I'm like invisible thins game.

Just checking in. Get back to this tomorrow or next day, busy.

[PrideandJoy]

I don't remember you being bleeding town. That's why I asked.

However I'd like to ask, who precisely was the owner of that shot.

[Cephrir]

>still suspects ooba
>doesn't know who took the shot

are you even reading the thread

[Tammy]

I don't remember you being bleeding town. That's why I asked.

However I'd like to ask, who precisely was the owner of that shot.

On both counts, read the game!

Also, the discussion about the shot is on like the past page.

I'm still fine with this dying.

[Garruk Relentless]

I was about to suggest an un-redirectable SK, but I guess that works too.

VOTE: Cephir

you can die.

Also I forgot, is there a reason to think tammy is town? I'll running out of scum possibilities. The only things left are ooba/Benmage/ and maybe Agar

PnJ, I maybe haven't been paying as much attention as I should be, but would you mind summarizing why you think Cephrir is the proper vote?

-SSK

[PrideandJoy]

you should ask Cephir why he thinks his vote is the proper vote.

my reason is that other people are town.

I'm not blind to seeing Shadoweh claim that she was explicitly involved in killing Katsuki. but it's not quite the same thing as "I killed Katsuki"

[Tammy]

<_< Honestly we had a long argument about it and it was my decision. I don't think the full reasoning matters now, but it comes down to weird interactions with quadz.

[Cephrir]

perhaps if you were reading the thread you would have seen that a) I'm town and b) I talked about why I suspect you yesterday

Also if you're legitimately surprised people suspect you after you've been a lurksack the whole game, well, you should rethink your life

[PrideandJoy]

repeat your thinking Cephir.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 5, Vc 1

PrideandJoy (2) -

kanyeknowsbest, Cephrir

Garruk Relentless (1) -

Messiah Complex

Cephrir (1) -

PrideandJoy

Not voting (14) -

Alfred Borden, AGar, Benmage, elleheathen, Garuk Relentless, Goat on a Raft, Nautilius, ooba, SafetyDance, Shadoweh, The Alchemist, Tammy, Tierce, Titus

With 18 alive it takes 10 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 25th of Novemberat 10:00 EDT
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-11-25 10:00:00)
  
• SafetyDance is V/la

[Cephrir]

vote kkb

WK

This is the first post containing a vote after the initial SpyreX wagon. Therefore, it is the first step to the derailing of said wagon in favor of the Zdenek/AGar wagons. And of all things it's for white knighting SpyreX. I'm not saying anything about this really, vote documenting the derailing.

Tammy
Shadoweh
AGar
Benmage
elleheathen
kanyeknowsbest
Messiah Complex
ooba
SpyreX
quadz08

scum are in here ^.

But it feels gross to vote SpyreX.

So I will

VOTE: Elleheathen

Here's another alternative wagon, and with a lame excuse not to vote SpyreX to boot! "I think the guy everyone is voting for is scum but nyeh so I'm gonna do something to actively derail the wagon"? Yuck.

The Spyrex vote is pretty great and we're-a let you finish but Agar made one of the scummiest moves onto the Amrun quickwagon of all time. OF ALL TIME!

{...}

VOTE: AGar

Here's yet another alternative!

I can dig agar scum.

unvote vote Agar

Let me go ahead and make this a real bandwagon even though I literally just voted someone else. Try a little harder to stop this please. At this point I would characterize the initial SpyreX push as completely dead.

I liked the Agar vote more. The lolhammer I can justify as a lolhammer, but putting her to L-1 like that is just complete bullshit.

VOTE: Agar

But on the off chance it wasn't, here's a really poorly reasoned wagon hop. Like actually, read this post and cringe with me as you near the end of it.

Why did you wait to use this ability?

We decided that we would wait in order to avoid giving scum a reason to nightkill us early on, given that the ability could be pretty useful and we're pretty keen on being alive (for this head at least, it would suck if we died before the numbers thinned out a bit). If one of us had been around late Yesterday like we'd meant to/before a lynch happened, it's possible we'd have decided to break it out then. On the other hand, we might have waited longer if we had had more scumflips before Today.

Having not been online when the Amrun lynch happened, we came into Today with fresh deathrage towards both Agar and Spyrex. The urge to whip it out became overwhelming. We're out, we're proud, we have two votes. LOCK 'N' LOAD.

Augh! I still can't talk about this!

here that moved me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ooba

This immediately follows a big post about ooba from shadoweh (accompanied by a vote). The picture I'm trying to paint here is that we have some players who appear to be really aggressively hunting for alternative wagons without actively defending Spyre (as kanye did). Primarily P&J and Benmage.

im willing to vote cephrir

(chesskid)

Case in fucking point.

Unvote

I need to sleep+think. These claims change things.

This follows my fake hammer. Those claims really did not change things (I assume claims plural means Alchemist and Spyre). I guess Alchemist's might have a little but Garruk was voting Spyre so that is not incredibly relevant. Spyre claimed a weak protective role. Why on earth should we care about that claim? It shouldn't affect anything, if you want to unvote then just unvote. Note that this post assumes, at least to my reading, that Spyre is aware he has not been hammered.

On an unrelated note, I am having trouble shaking my early townread on elle, even though a few things have made me uneasy. Someone convince me, I guess?

Update on my suspects:
Alchemist: We're not lynching this until Tierce does her thing but I still want it to die.
Messiah: I have very mixed feelings about their interactions with Spyre. I guess this is a good thing for them.
Garruk: Looks worse than before, see body of post.
Goat: Using their double vote on Spyre I actually liked, but they do remove it before too long. Not much change here in light of the new information.
Titus: See Messiah, I suppose, but less so. Hopefully having just played with town Titus will help me out here.
P&J: Welcome!

This. In addition, there's the part where you've let my D1 town read on you get way mega stale, and you haven't done much of anything for four days.

I've yet to review my opinion in light of the quadz flip, however, and as such my vote is currently tentative.

[Cephrir]

I'm also not convinced that Garruk isn't a better vote. He probably is, but I don't have much pull in this stacked town, and I don't see that wagon going through.

[Shadoweh]

I'm not blind to seeing Shadoweh claim that she was explicitly involved in killing Katsuki. but it's not quite the same thing as "I killed Katsuki"

It would be more correct to say "We killed Katsuki" but the killing role is exclusively mine. I just needed a nice man to make it happen. Do you have a problem besides that you were begging for a kill earlier and then smacked me away when I offered to let you in on it?

Also if you guys thought it was a bad vig maybe you should have said something when I was asking about targets yesterdat. =X=

[Cephrir]

Eh, I think it was a fine target. Not stellar, just fine.

[Alfred Borden]

Just checking in. Tierce, I read your post and I'm down with that, I'll update the list with quadz stuffs when I wake up tomorrow.