Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Day 1, Votecount 7

Street Hassle

(0)

Kid A

(0)

TvK

(0)

My Milked Eek

(0)

T S O

(0)

Regfan

(2) Street Hassle, Orestes

ICEninja

(1)

Garmr

(1) Regfan

Squirrel Girl (Nutsy...)

(1) T S O

Orestes

(3) TvK, Kid A, Garmr

Quadraxis

(0)

Herself

(2) ICEninja, havingfitz

havingfitz

(2) Herself, Squirrel Girl

Not Voting (2)

- My Milked Eek, Quadraxis

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is on November 23rd at 7:30 AM PST or in (expired on 2013-11-23 07:30:00)

---

V/LA:
Quadraxis until Nov 13th

[Street Hassle]

tch u how 2 scmhnt?

Looking forward to it.

Hello.

[Street Hassle]

Regfan, for some reason, MS stopped working on my PC but I'll be around on my phone. Very interested in going through it.

[Regfan]

Looking forward to it.

Step 1. You cut a hole in a b-

Okay maybe I don't know how to do it. I'll ask DeityKabuto to teach me.

Also this is taking a lot longer than I anticipated to get down. Do you want it in sections or you happy to wait another hourish?

[Street Hassle]

Empire says he's happy to wait.

[Regfan]

I need to take a break, then I'll go through HavingFitz and Garmr in a few hours. I'll leave this with you for now though.

Town (Strongest to weakest):

Street

are

n00b

town. Not going to bother going into this unless needed since it's really obvious.

I found

ICEninjas

paranoia over the addition of day talk in Post 13 as very genuine and the explanation behind the paranoia of it in Post 16 strengthens that massively. His reads list and statement of "X has dropped a massive town tell that I don't want to go into" in Post 72 reads as insanely town and the "So many town reads, scum in the lurkers" matched my thoughts to the tee when I was reading through as an observer. The annoyance that people aren't reading his thoughts in Post 111 comes across as town as does the frustration with the lack of activity in Post 112. The entire confirmation-bias paragraph in Post 176 also is supersupersupertown as is the "Either I'm having wool over my eyes or this is too easy" in Post 194. Pretty much I'd bet the game on Street, Herself and this guy being town, none of them are for lynching ever.

It hurts to say this, it really does you have no idea how long I tried to convince myself "Well that can be faked, they can still be scum!" or "Mollies line of attack on Street for their town read on Orestes is bad, they might be scum!!" when following the game hoping that I'd be able to lynch them but I'm pretty sure

Herself

are town. I'll make this short because I really don't want to re-go over their posts a hundred times; Mollies Post 78 statement about SG reads super townish given that's similar to how I'm feeling right now and the town reads in Post 133 mostly match mine. The clinchers though are really the suggestion in Post 155 coming across as town , "If we're dead tomorrow go after them to the end of the earth in Post 173 and them having an identical thought process as me re; Milk in Post 208 as well as the Fitz-meta pulls.

Squirrel

is probably the town read I have the most trouble explaining but I have a pretty strong town read on her (It's moreso based on the entirety of her ISO coming across as genuine scumhunting and being transparent rather than specific posts) but I'll give it a go; her entire vote changes in the early game came across as town, especially the change for an answer in Post 41. I found her read on Orestes in Post 84 and Post 86 as very very natural and the request for an alternate viewpoint is town motivated. The statement that she did a scum read of Banksys meta in Post 113 reads town as does the follow up pushing for information from Street and the explanation behind her vote in Post 145. Wish I could explain it better.

I had a decent town read on

Orestes

, I liked his line of questioning towards Garmr in Post 48, it's similar to something I'd have done in that position. I liked his Post 76, the statement that he liked the Flaeron wagon or at least

did

but wants to check it again reads as actually him re-considering his reads. Also liked the explanation that his post was unedited and his thoughts as he was having them. His explanation for his specific vote; him voting to join a wagon he liked since so many 1-man wagons aren't helpful is a very understandable and town motivated line of thinking. Will admit it's slightly weakened by his inactivity but still think the wagon on him needs to disappear, so many better places for votes.

I actually am one of "those" people that have a town read on

Kid A

too, I could very much understand his vote in Post 51 with his reasoning in Post 70, it's not a stance I agree with but I can see how he got to that conclusion and it comes across as a genuine attempt at scumhunting.

Null:

I do think that

Quadraxis

V/LA statement pre-game without having posted in the thread is something that's slightly more likely to come from scum since they have pre-game discussion and day-talk to post it in but that's kind of a lame way to read people so I'll just wait on some content from him.

Not sure at all with TSO here, there's something that I can't talk about that does point towards him being town, relates to scum having day talk and him stating that he forgot about the game entirely in Post 120, there's a chance you can connect the dots there. But he's been avoiding the thread since then given his recent posts. Do either of you have a link to a scum game of his that I can quickly read through or just a summary over whether lurking and avoiding the early game is a scum tell for him or not?

Scum (Strongest to weakest):

I actually skimmed

TvK's

meta but I don't know how and I feel like a fucking idiot but I've forgotten what I learned and will have to do it again later (It was something like I've only ever seen him as town and couldn't find a scum game to properly compare it to but can't remember how much his town play here matched his games play). I'm reading his play this game as very mechanical though which is how I play as scum, the phrasing behind his Post 44 reads as him awkwardly trying to fencesit on SG and the explanation behind it in Post 65 doesn't really explain it to me at all. There's also a lot of him setting up to vote people down the line which reads as scum leaving their options open; examples being his read Orestes in Post 67 on Kid A and ICE in Post 178 and Fitz and Milked in Post 210. Think I really need to meta him again, want to

fail

give it a go too Empire?

I agree completely with Herself's scum read on

Milked

, I checked his profile randomly when I was bored earlier before I replaced in and noticed it'd said he had been online today, he didn't post till far later from memory so that combined with Post 184 reads as scum that was actively following the thread but avoiding joining in. The initial comment of "I'm not lurking" reads as an attempt to create a pre-emptive defense rather than genuinely explain the issue.

[Garmr]

I feel like a kid in a candy store waiting my read.

[Street Hassle]

Man, it's scary how our reads are quite similar to yours (same reasoning on a lot of them too).

Really, the only places so far where we differ are Kid A and TvK (both of whom I have a null). I'm about to crash but I've been conflicted on TvK for basically the entire game. I remember at some point he said he townread my slot for "asking him a question" and that raised my eyebrow. I'll go through his games when I wake up. As far as Kid A goes, he hasn't really done anything I'd say is unfakeable.

ffery's not here at the moment but she has more experience with T S O than I do (I have no completed games with him) so maybe she'll give some insight into his meta.

[Regfan]

Yeah, sorry Garmr and Fitz will have to wait for a few hours, going out drinking now.

Man, it's scary how our reads are quite similar to yours (same reasoning on a lot of them too).

It's because I can read your hydra QT, it's on public.

I think this is winnable just via the amount of strong town reads (ICE, Herself, Squirrel and to a lesser degree Orestes) we have. Let me know what you end up with when you finish through TvK tomorrow then, if I'm sober enough I'll go through his meta tonight again and with Kid A it's "fakeable" sure but I still read it as understandable and genuine, it's a weak read though.

[ICEninja]

what if I told you that fitz's vote on me is the safest vote he can possibly make since he has voted me in nearly every single game we have ever been in

This is...strange. Does he just always scum read you either way?

if we were dayvigged right now and you finally had to face the fact that you have been tunneling on town for shoddy reasons who would you go after next?

First instinct would be Banksys. Though I had to admit a town flip on you would significantly increase my suspicion of fitz, so I'd probably reevaluate my read on him.

I'm not currently caught up. I'll have to do page 10 onwards in the morning.

[TvK]

I'm about to crash but I've been conflicted on TvK for basically the entire game. I remember at some point he said he townread my slot for "asking him a question" and that raised my eyebrow

I like Street Hassle for asking me questions. I always come up with better things when answering people's questions.

I know I throw the word "like" around a bit too often, but here I didn't mean it in a townread-way. I just stated that I'm way more productive when people ask me questions throughout the game.

[TvK]

I also only have a few completed games in here, including 0 scum games.

Anyway, I'm having a hard time reading people in here. Too many people come across as town, but still I'm waiting for all of them to say something that I can find scummy. That's probably why my vote is still on Orestes and also why I don't like Kid A. To get town credit, they should come in here and post stuff. I don't see how 1/2 decent posts followed by 6 pages of silence belongs in the town read pile.

Same with TSO, he has given literally zero content. And with fitz as well, as I said before, his wall looks impressive, but it says nothing.

[havingfitz]

I need to catch up in another game before I get back in here. Might be back in here today. TBD.

I haven't looked the games over that have been referenced but my initial question would be were they games I was in from the start (vs replacing in) and were an equal number of town games referred to.

FYI...I do the catch ups the same way in all my games. And I typically catch flak for them in all my games. Basically they are my way of conveying my thoughts on certain game events/comments and are a way for other players to have a sense of where my heads at.wrt suspicions and/or town reads.

Back when I'm caught up for in my other game.

[havingfitz]

While it's on my mind, some games that bear looking at if they haven't been looked at already (not going to try to link to the games from my phone....just look in my topics and scroll down)...

Town game (Mini 1645) modded by StKerrigan.  Several catch up posts and a joking RVS combined with a hydra question.

Scum game (Game of Things) modded by Guy Named Riggs. (Catch up)

Town game (Mini 1480) modded by Antagon.  Replaced in but I'm finding most of my games are like that.  Catch up post.

While most of my games at some point or another have my catch up posts I do see a trend the further I go back where older games seem to have more content and as time has gone by the catch ups have become more succinct.  More a result of increased phone posting and lack of time than alignment.

OK...NOW back to my other game.

[Regfan]

I wasn't a fan of

Garmr's

vote on Squirrel in Post 39, the reasoning felt it could also mostly have been attributed towards ICENinja (Both changed votes 3 times up until then) but he made no mention of ICE. Remind me to go back and read Post 49 again tomorrow, million billion different thoughts on it right now*. I do read his Post 91 as town though, especially the "I am confident this is the slot to place your vote on", comes across as genuine. The tin-foil theory in Post 139 (The bolded was about Banksy I believe and not Garmr) comes across as town, scum generally don't go through the thought process of "X looks like they're going to scum read me, but then others town read me so X dropped it which is scummy". I'd probably stick this guy just under Orestes and just above Kid A in the town section at the moment but I really need another look at Post 49 because I remember being bothered by it when I was following along but I'm kind of leaning the other way on it right now and I'm not in the right mind-state to make a conclusive decision.

I don't find

HavingFitzs

Post 6 as scummy like you guys apparently do, it comes across as a very understandable question to ask given the OP didn't state if and who they hydra's were. Also didn't see an issue with Post 9, I read the "Is that a problem" line as more a question of if someone stated the hydras incorrectly and wanting it to be cleared up. I do find Post 181 somewhat scummy though given that it means he was checking in if posts were directed at him and focused on defending himself when he was supposedly "dealing with other games". A little conflicted on his catch up wall in Post 187, I like his transition on his ICE read and the majority of his town reads but the attack and vote on Herself seems really forced and the usage of words like "amusing" and ridiculous" (Very similar to the "interesting" tell that I still think is a thing, that being that scum use particular words to avoid taking stances on things but still "commenting" on it) when referring to peoples scum reads on him don't read genuine at all. I'll take a look at his meta later tomorrow because I remember he did have a few specific tells, I think Empires spot on in that I remember his town catch ups had more stances and "controversial" opinions whereas his scum catch ups had a lot more fluff, think his catch up here is a lot more like his scum ones but I'll need to check when I do the meta reading. I'd probably stick him just under TvK and just above Milked on my scum list at the moment.

Anyway, I'm having a hard time reading people in here.

Too many people come across as town

I got the exact opposite vibe from you when I read through, there's a lot of people you've voiced concern with and it's one of my largest issues with you; reads as leaving lots of doors open for later. But lets run through this, who do you currently have read as town and why?

[Regfan]

I'm going to head to bed but I should be able to sneak on sometime tomorrow in my break, I'll try and get the TvK and HavingFitz meta done then.

Empire, I'm leaving TSO pretty much entirely up to you two to research and deal with, no pressure

but if you're wrong on him u r ded 2 me.

Vote: TvK

[Herself]

Can you make that a joint committee between Street Hassle and us? I have a significant history with TSO.

- Des

[Street Hassle]

In all my prior games iwth TSO, he's been town. I'll hunt up some scum games to meta.

[Herself]

It hurts to say this, it really does you have no idea how long I tried to convince myself "Well that can be faked, they can still be scum!" or "Mollies line of attack on Street for their town read on Orestes is bad, they might be scum!!" when following the game hoping that I'd be able to lynch them but I'm pretty sure

Herself

are town.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

reggie has a town read on us and can't lynch us and is stuck with me the whoooooooooooooooole game (well as long as either of us are alive)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

game might be fun after all

[Herself]

also in case anybody missed it I have reggie as town town town towniest town whoever towned.

I have to discuss it with desp but I think he will agree.

[ICEninja]

But ice you were the one who started the garmr love why do you deny me and my loving embrace.

You made one particularly town post that gave me an early town read on you like page 2. After that you've backed off in to a lot of quieter, tossing out a few observations here and there, mode of play that hasn't involved much scum hunting outside a little pressure on lurkers. You definitely haven't been scummy, but I haven't seen a lot of content lately that would maintain a town read.

On a serious note what do you think they are letting me off easy with?

You started off looking quite town and it's hard to drop confirmation bias, regardless if its regarding town or scum. Just think about N is for normal, I wasn't able to see anything Elyse did as scum because of that one tell that I thought was so monstrously town she couldn't possibly be scum.

Why can't I be hesitant town and he be scum that I'm wrongly doubting a read on? Also, is what I did any different than what you did?

I mean yeah I suppose that is a possibility too. I just feel that, in my experience, town doubting the wagon and such when voting someone means they're voting town, and scum voting someone but doubting the wagon are trying to get credit for being on a scum wagon while still trying to dismantle it. And of course it was different, I'm not interested in lynching fitz based on alignment-neutral page 1 posts and a catchup post that resonated with my feelings on the state of the game.

Welcome Regfan. Your name is familiar, thank god, this game has so few familiar names in it for me.
Also:

Naw, Post 33 was actually pretty townie, surprised you missed it and yeah, I did the meta-reading before I replaced in, wanted to be sure (Still wasn't 100% sure but confident enough) and you've misread that entirely too.

I actually agree with this. I was so caught up on post 31 that I didn't realize that 33 was indeed a very town reaction to the explanation.

And now I'm freaking out because I simply have too many town reads. This isn't acceptable. Do we seriously have multiple scum who aren't posting?

Alright yeah I've done a complete 180 on the Banksys/Reg slot because everything except the townread on Herself is great. I'm actually debating a TvK vote being that it looks like there's no hope for a Herself lynch today. I'm town reading simply too many people, and Occam's razor is telling me to lynch the scummiest lurker today.

I'm going to read Herself over to see if maybe there's something damning that I've missed or to see if maybe I've just been completely retarded when finding the slot scummy because people who are strong town are giving the direct opposite read.

[Garmr]

@regfan
I'm liking regfan for town. I was going to say the banksy tell but I don't want her knowing it because I want to use it in the future on her.

@Ice
Yeh that's true lol. But I managed to survive so long and I looked like I opposed Elyse's views no one made the connection.

[T S O]

Herself is Town, I wouldn't worry about it.

[T S O]

I can read Despy pretty easily.

[ICEninja]

Hey look at that, someone is pretending to play this game. And look at that, throwing out another town read to one of the players who obviously won't be today's lynch. Using PoE to assume quite a few players are town, the lynch pool is fairly small at the moment. This guy fits the bill OH SO NICELY.

Unvote, vote T S O

. After those last 2 posts I like this vote more than a TvK vote even.