Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Day 1, Votecount 8

Street Hassle [0]

Kid A [0]

TvK [1]

Regfan

My Milked Eek [0]

T S O [1]

ICEninja,

Regfan [2]

Street Hassle, Orestes

ICEninja [0]

Garmr [0]

Squirrel Girl [1]

T S O

Orestes [3]

TvK, Kid A, Garmr

Quadraxis [0]

Herself [1]

havingfitz

havingfitz [2]

Herself, Squirrel Girl

Not Voting [2]

- My Milked Eek, Quadraxis

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is on November 23rd at 7:30 AM PST or in (expired on 2013-11-23 07:30:00)

[Herself]

What's wrong with what he just said? You just got done saying you were going to read over us again to see if you are being completely retarded or not (you are) and yet another person who has a significant history with our slot thinks we are town, so he voiced his opinion.

How is that scummier than TvK, Professional Fence Builder Esq.?

- Des

[ICEninja]

It isn't what he said that's scummy. It's

everything

that he didn't say.

[T S O]

I'm the person he's talking about, and even I don't know what he's on about at this stage.

Much as it boosts your ego to be mysterious, let's hear this.

[Herself]

It isn't what he said that's scummy. It's

everything

that he didn't say.

Maybe he only had time to comment on the last thing he saw in thread and planned on catching up later?

- Des

[TvK]

But lets run through this, who do you currently have read as town and why?

Street: No doubt about these guys, I don't think I need to explain why they are town. Clear and helpful content in nearly all of their posts.

Herself: Town, I like their way of hunting. I really liked #155.

Squirrel Girl: Never really could consolidate a good town read on her. Now that I read her ISO, I don't feel good about #113, where she says she has nothing but a town read on Street, and then suddenly she votes them in #126, while Street just didn't want to give away his reasons to the person he was voting. Then again in #209, she votes Fitz. She never stated if she thought Street was less scummy to go on to vote Fitz because she was convinced by Herself, even though she says she doesn't agree with the points made because of Fitz's meta. Does not look good, imo.

ICE: I like his #112 and #125. Even though I don't agree with his reasoning to vote Herself for most of the day, I do think he is town. But his latest posts reflect my thoughts, with #277 as a perfect example.

Garmr: A bit of this and a bit of that. I can't say I have a town read on him. I can't say I find him scummy. Absolute null at the moment.

Fitz: Still think he doesn't look good.

Regfan: Yup, you are exactly right, I haven't done anything townish yet in this game, thanks for pointing that out. I hope this looks a bit better to you.

TSO: No content = no towncred = in the case of this game, looking scummy.

Orestes: Unless he does actually sleep for 32 hours straight, every minute that goes by without him posting his long-awaited "go into more next post"-post is making him look worse. Liking my vote here.

Kid A: I still don't see how 4 one-liners make him look townish to nearly everyone. And in his last post he is even asking Herself's read on Street, while it was incredibly obvious that Herself found them town.

Milked Eek: Same as TSO.

[Garmr]

Garmr:

A bit of this and a bit of that.

I can't say I have a town read on him. I can't say I find him scummy. Absolute null at the moment.

hmmm

[Squirrel Girl]

Squirrel Girl: Never really could consolidate a good town read on her. Now that I read her ISO, I don't feel good about #113, where she says she has nothing but a town read on Street, and then suddenly she votes them in #126, while Street just didn't want to give away his reasons to the person he was voting.

I am ashamed of myself for doing that. It's a good thing I didn't do what you're saying I did, since I think you're really misreading what I said in #113. Maybe you should read it again?

I actually am not the biggest fan of RegFan's entrance and the reactions to it. Especially Street's and, sadly, to a lesser extent ICE's. When it was a silly newbie slot they were all about calling it out and scumhunting it without explaining stuff and me calling it town was ignored and Street even refused to continue discussing the slot with me because it was scummy and I was some level of terrible or silly insomuch as I couldn't understand it. Then a more experienced player replaces in and suddenly everyone notices how townish the slot looks?



I don't want to be wrong about ICE, but I think that looks bad on him. I want to be right on Street, and think it continues to make the slot look skeevy. Everyone handing out the town reads to that slow would make me as happy as squirrel in a Nutella factory if you could justify it some more.

[Squirrel Girl]

Thinking about it ICE's reverse looks almost too comically bad to be scummy, so I think maybe he just got a little tunneled there and retreated? I'd like to hear Reg's thought on that, but I'd like to leave ICE as townish for now.

Street still looks bad.

I guess I should go ahead and join the universal agreement that the lurkers look pleasently easy to lynch and no one would cry to see it happen. Of the pair TvK is the only one that feels scummy to me, I am not getting too much of a scum vbe off either Fitz nor TSO at the moment. But, teah, y'know, we can all hate on them more if we'd like, no one will cry. I even think I agree with the slightly bloated town core we built, I just don't like Street being in it.

[Herself]

It's OK if there is 1 scum in the town block, and paranoia is healthy.

What kind of vibe are you getting from Fitz and TSO?

- Des

[Herself]

squirrel thing we were leaning town on banksys too. desp meta-ed her and he didn't think she looked scummy at all and to me in this game she just looked confused.

I am going to post a list of our reads in a bit, the list earlier was mostly desp's so now that we have a chance to really talk, a more consolidated list will be up shortly.

[Squirrel Girl]

TSO feels like a player who forgot to bookmark the game and came back to a bunch of pages and has been lazy in catching up. He feels not helpful and not like town, but I don't really think he's feeling like scum either as I don't feel an agenda from him.

Fitz probably feels scummier than TSO, but it's by small matters of degree. I sort of like his defense about the meta case on him. The worst I can say about that was aspects of it felt copied from me...but I think my point was really solid and it's a logical issue to raise about what was said about him. Other than that I don't even feel I understand why people are calling him scummy at this stage, it's basically that he's being too agreeable or something. Sure, he doesn't radiate town to me, but from what I've seen he's a bit of a lurky player regardless, so it has to be a weakish case on him at this stage. I'd probably be okay helping lynch him, but I feel we can do better.

[Squirrel Girl]

squirrel thing we were leaning town on banksys too. desp meta-ed her and he didn't think she looked scummy at all and to me in this game she just looked confused.

I am going to post a list of our reads in a bit, the list earlier was mostly desp's so now that we have a chance to really talk, a more consolidated list will be up shortly.

1. Looking back I see this is true, though I don't recall calling you out for changing your read on the slot. I will just agree and smile cutely at you now.

2. Yay! Look at Street again, please and thank you.

[TvK]

Why is your vote still on Fitz? And do you have an idea about someone when you say 'but I feel we can do better'?

[Squirrel Girl]

Why is your vote still on Fitz?

Because I haven't moved it anywhere since last voting him.

And do you have an idea about someone when you say 'but I feel we can do better'?

Street comes to mind. Honestly probably you too. I'm also a fan of the idea of making Orestes dead, and like that plan as well.

[Street Hassle]

*sigh*

Regfan, can you bust out your rolodex of~ 3 years worth of meta with me so you can explain why there's no way I'm scum in this game? Thanks in advance.

Unvote, vote: havingfitz

Bigger post coming up next.

[TvK]

Street comes to mind. Honestly probably you too. I'm also a fan of the idea of making Orestes dead, and like that plan as well.

Street, no. Orestes, definitely yes.

[havingfitz]

I could be at L-1. Not sure. If people have any doubts on their suspicions towards me (which I fail to see) I would appreciate an unvote. More than a few people haven't contributed squat yet and I'm being rung up based on my two 1st posts (stupid), my catch up post (standard) and meta o. The aforementioned non items.

tl:dr;

someone please fcuking unvote me till I can address my accusers

[Herself]

okay so this is what we have:

town

reggie - he is in my don't touch don't even look at him funny or I will hurt you pile. if reggie wants me to explain the read I will but I doubt I will explain it to anybody else cos I think it would only make sense to reggie and even then I am not sure.

squirrel creature - this is par for the course of her play. she makes weird leaps and goes in directions that you never expect her to. this is a playstyle thing and usually I need nacho to read her but I really think she is town this game.

kid A - desp has him as town don't ask me why. he says he liked his posts and I was like okay.

tso - between desp and I, I think we have 10 or 12 completed games with him. we are leaning town and it has to do with his carefree rvs play.

unsure, need to sort

ice guy - he has not posted a single read that I liked and honestly his play is so derpy I am starting to wonder if it is fake. we had him as town earlier cos we agreed with street that the paranoia seemed townish but holy jesus since then his posts just seem bad bad bad.

street - we are leaving them alone for today but I do want to get some thoughts out there. I did not like his push on banksys, desp meta-ed her too and came to an entirely different conclusion. to me it felt forced, fabricated and like going after low hanging fruit. wanted to give them some space so started treating them like town but the interactions last night were weird. i am not sure how me wanting to talk to emp turned into me blaming them for the lack of enjoyment of the game. <---- weird. I danced with emp and it felt pretty natural but it was like pulling teeth to get him to do it and I am wondering why that is. on desp's part he was under the impression that we all had moved on but then emp said he was being a douche and fery said that trying to work with us (desp has been doing most of the posting) was like slogging in an uphill battle when desp thought he

was

working with fery so he is not sure where that is coming from. it could just all be a misunderstanding but it has left us both mystified and unsure.

tvk - has left no impression on me but desp is wondering if they are uncertain town slowly warming up. they provided a list so townpoints for that, it leaves a trail.

garmr - desp likes him, I need to interact with him. dancing lessons will be held.

orestes - where did he go. its like we are at a concert that was supposed to start at 11pm and it is now 1am and we are still waiting.

quadraxis or whatever - srsly who the fuck is this person.

scummy

fitz - desp has a boogey and I can see where he is coming from.

milked - hated everything about that post like seriously

everything

. he is my boogey

[Herself]

okay fitz

UNVOTE: fitzUNVOTE:

[Street Hassle]

I could be at L-1. Not sure. If people have any doubts on their suspicions towards me (which I fail to see) I would appreciate an unvote. More than a few people haven't contributed squat yet and I'm being rung up based on my two 1st posts (stupid), my catch up post (standard) and meta o. The aforementioned non items.

tl:dr;

someone please fcuking unvote me till I can address my accusers

I think you're at L-4 if the count at the top of the page is accurate.

[Street Hassle]

Alright, so Regfan, I've gone over the reads list you put up with ffery now that I'm awake and stuff. I'll be putting up our own bullet points on certain players in my next few posts as we discuss and consolidate our reads.

First three are our strong townreads, pretty much the ones we're feeling very confident on.

Herself:

• Our read on this slot is very largely meta-based so you'll be getting two separate bullet points here from each of us individually (mostly revolving around Desperado's play).
  
• Empire: I only have one completed game with Desperado on this site and that was when he was scum (Wingate Mansion). In that game, he was a lot more cautious / mechanical in his interactions with other players than he has been here and he just flat out does not attack the game with the same intensity. Checked out his scum play in Castle to make sure this wasn't an aberration and it fits the exact same profile. #418 from that game is a good example of what I mean -- the tame language he uses when someone disagrees with him on a strong opinion he holds ("we'll agree to disagree") is vastly different to how adamant he's been here.
  
• ffery: She really likes the way Desperado has tried to reach out and build lynch consensus, especially backing down when things get too heated and trying to get disparate town players to work together even temporarily (she wants me to point out that him asking Squirrel Girl to leave us alone for a bit is a good example of that). She also notes that The Walking Dead is very representative of how he's been approaching the game, trying to build a strong town bloc to essentially suffocate the scum and box them out.
  
• With regards to mollie, we've been going back and forth on her reach out to me last night. Apparently, she does try to emulate that paranoia -- ffery linked me to Perpetual Mylo and I found her interactions with ffery way over the top in that game, very much unlike here, and I'm reading her disappointment that I seemingly turned down her reach out as genuine.

ICEninja:

• His paranoia over the scum having daytalk in #13 and #16 reads incredibly genuine, especially in the context of his most recently completed game (Mini 1505).
  
• I liked his confusion and frustration that people aren't understanding his posts or where he's coming from with his attacks. As a general principle, town care a hell of a lot more about their reads and tend to get upset when others aren't following them or understanding their perspective.
  
• His intense frustration over inactives in #112 and people not generating enough content to his satisfaction is also very genuine and fits his town meta almost perfectly (Mini 1407 -- he actually replaced out of this game because it was too lurky for him).
  
• A lot of the more introspective comments read genuine too -- the concern that he's falling into confirmation bias on townreading our slot or that he's missing the boat entirely on Herself. ffery also wants to note that his "way too many townreads among the active players paranoia" in #270 reads genuine to her too as she's often shared that same worry that there's a really good, smooth scum player in the active bunch sweeping up the town points.

Squirrel Girl:

• Her entrance into the game feels comfortable (#10 in particular being a highlight). Scum, especially newer scum, typically enter the game a lot more stiff and awkward than I believe she has here. ffery also thought that "antagonizing" the Herself hydra right off the bat would have been a ballsy move for her as scum.
  
• She's not afraid to be vocal about her disagreements with others, even early on (her shift from messing around in the early game to calling ICE's argument against Banksys a stretch and then pursuing the issue felt natural). I like that she challenged us on our read on Orestes, seemingly out of surprise that our thoughts differed from hers. Scum are way less likely to feel the surprise -> need for validation / invalidation from someone else reaction because they view reads as just talking points rather than things to care about.
  
• I like the she persisted on getting answers about our Banksys meta thing, shows she genuinely cares about the issue. I think the typical scum move would have been to drop the line of questioning entirely especially considering how many people disagreed with her read on us. Instead, she carries on because she's sticking up for what she believes in.
  
• Very minor point, but I liked #159, I think she'd have relished in "being ignored" as scum rather than comment on it out of frustration.

Need to go over TvK / Garmr / T S O next, probably will take some time as these will require some meta reading.

P-edit: Mollie, I've moved way on at this point. I'm not the kind of person who gets over things quickly or easily (I once had to refrain from posting in a game for something like an entire week because Thor personally insulted me and pissed me off) and I only brought it up because you asked me why I've been giving your slot the cold shoulder. As for the Banksys thing, I already explained when Regfan replaced in that I was trying to field a reaction from her (though I did honestly find her initial posts kind of suspicious, I exaggerated a bit for that reason). I saw in her town game that she got a lot more emotional / passionate in her interactions with people so I saw the opportunity to get an easy townread there.

[ICEninja]

I think maybe he just got a little tunneled there and retreated?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. My case on him was based on a post Banksys made on page 2, and it wasn't the strongest case I've ever had. Don't get me wrong for the time it was fine but I feel like Reg's significant town contributions outweigh Banksys's early scummy play. Either way I admit that I feel a little derpy about ignoring post 33 back then.

Alright so right now I have a handful of people I'm unwilling to lynch at this point:

Street Hassle

, obviously. This town must be even more paranoid than me if they think this slot is the one pulling the wool over our eyes. Honestly if Street is scum and continues to play this well then he'd deserve to win.

Regfan

, also. As stated, my Banksys scum read was early and, admittingly, a bit misguided.

I can't QUITE decide if I want

Nutsy McSexytail

here too. She's playing a bit...squirrely...but people seem to feel like that's par for the course on her town play. Like I said I'm not a huge fan of meta reads but no matter how hard I try to be paranoid and see scum motivation from her, it just doesn't track.

I've got kind of a "meh" on Garmr, fitz, Kid A, and Orestes. Garmr is the only one of the 3 who has really posted enough content for me to get a solid read on them (and Garmr is probably not scum, but I simply cannot give out any more strong town reads). I suppose I could tolerate a lynch on any of these players but honestly I'm going to need some damning VCA in future days or a really damning case now as to why one of them is scum to see them lynched day 1.

Herself is in a weird category where I simply do not trust her and have scummy feelings, but there is so much logical reasoning to suggest she's town. Logic says town, gut says scum, and I'm really fucking frustrated. Every time I read her stuff I seem to go back and forward so I think for the purpose of day 1 I'm going to say a Herself lynch is not a good idea (not that I could get any support for this lynch anyway, but even so). I'm going to table my suspicion on Herself for the moment.

Which leaves the

really

frustrating part. The remainder of players, Milked, T S O, and TvK , include two contentless players who seem like their lack of content is more scum motivated than town motivated. I'm really uncomfortable with people defending T S O. Then there's TvK who certainly posts enough words, but the amount of uncertain and waffling language gives him WAY too much room to go back on his reads later which I often associate with scum. Sure town can have a few weak or uncertain reads but the wording he uses, passes he gives, and a lack of pressure really worries me.

I hate this. I'm usually so confident by now of a solid scum read, and the best thing I have is 3 players who seem scummy, even though I don't really have much of a substantial case on them. Part of me is thinking that this game is just going to be over in a flash, easy scum lynched, but I can't shake the feeling that we're going to be taking a player like Herself or Nutsy to lylo and they'll have been scum all along.

I feel like the best thing we can do right now is lynch the easy scum first, because there's almost certainly at least one scum in the [TvK, Milked, T S O] bracket then save the paranoia for after scum has chopped a few of the overwhelmingly town reads down.

If someone wants to make a case for why I should move my vote off T S O and on to TvK or Milked, go for it. If someone wants me to move my vote to one of my "meh" reads, you're welcome to try but it better be a strong case if you want any hope.

[havingfitz]

I think you're at L-4 if the count at the top of the page is accurate

Ffs....I think I was confusing this game with another.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

bump for vc