Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[Garuda]

It's been 8 minutes and like 10 posts from me, you should be ashamed.

[Garuda]

I guess I'm retreading pro hawk too! Mina, are you scum reading him as well?

Nacho if there is one thing I can do legit, its read tone and nonverbal factors. There is something up with Prohawk.

What's wrong with his tone? I found his early tone extremely convincing, at least.

[Harakiri]

Its not though. Prohawk's a pretty reasonable guy usually. Kinda a harass, sure, but definitely reasonable. Like, I don't remember any of the name-calling or the downright predatory nature he's displayed this game in any previous game. That's ignoring his immutability of reads and whatnot he's expressed.

[Garuda]

I didn't think he was reasonable at all in xenologue, I thought he was crazy and pushing a scum agenda and trying to call morph scum or ridiculous reasons.

[Garuda]

Why do you find that post so suspicious? I mean, is it that unlikely that a townie would bid on investigation immune?

Nope, just the fact that you tried to use it in your first post to posture yourself as town. It looked fake, and I am pretty sure it was fake and you are scum.

This seems like townhawk conviction.

This is why voided is scum btw.

On a scale of 1-10?

I'll let ffery talk about her reasons but for me it's around a 6 or 7.

Sounds like you both are scum-reading him then. You not voting is making me worry.

Good paranoia.

Self-Votes make me cringe, especially the way it was done "on principle".

Voting while placing the responsibility on someone else for said vote.

'
I thought that Hawk's conviction about this reasoning was extremely townish. This was a reasoning that got him shit from pretty much everyone who suspects him, but it's a reasoning that he never comes close to backing down from. While reading Muffin's ISO, I noticed that Muffin talked about Prohawk's reasoning during the exchange with Nero, and out pops ProHawk defending himself again and opening the can of worms anew when buzz about it had mostly settled down.

You have a defeatist attitude. You are willing to let others dictate what is done. The "There wasn't much we could do" is a farce, and maybe if you would have taken a stand against lynching someone you felt was going to flip town, something could have been done to get an actual scum-lynch. This is why I said if you are town, you are handing the game on a silver platter.

This pep talk strikes me as pretty townish because it strikes me as Hawk attempting to herd a bit, make sure that something like yesterday's fiasco doesn't happen again.

But on another note, your question had/has me baffled. My reasons may make no sense to you, but they are logical, and I do hope when this is all over you reflect on what happened/how it happened, because it was accurate. My working hypothesis, however is that it was heavily scum-driven who made the wagon look appealing.

I liked this too.

#1283 and #1284 seemed pretty awesome as well.

Here are my comments on his early tone btw, leaving off from there.

[Harakiri]

Not talking about his actual content, but the way he came across. In Xenologue it felt like he was trying to act a voice of reason in the cacophony of that game. In Cabd he acted as a mediator.

Here he's been content to kindle fires but not fan them, so to speak. Whereas in the others he fanned the flames as well of the fires he started.

[Garuda]

Ffery, want to know what really worries me? The lack of any trajectory analysis. The chance of your slot being scum is increasing at an exponential rate. Nothing you have done here is indicative of what I have seen from town-game-Ffery.

One of the cornerstones of pro hawks game is his consistent paranoia of ffery's game. In this case, he has literally no motivation to carry on this side game to continue looking town; I know he has a meta of attacking stronger players and I know that he would carry this along as scum, but the attacks on morph, muffin, lost butterfly was basically pro hawk with minimal town Fred attacking a fuck ton of big names he can very safely kill instead. It doesn't strike me as scum play.

[Garuda]

Not talking about his actual content, but the way he came across. In Xenologue it felt like he was trying to act a voice of reason in the cacophony of that game. In Cabd he acted as a mediator.

Here he's been content to kindle fires but not fan them, so to speak. Whereas in the others he fanned the flames as well of the fires he started.

This makes sense.

[Voidedmafia]

@Voided: he's not confirmed town, because he could conceivably have been locked out of one bid and lied about the other. (If anyone else in the game thinks they've been locked out last night, then he's a confirmed liar, due to the one-Dirty-Trick-per-night clause.) But I think he's almost certainly telling the truth about being locked out of Cop (given that he could have spent far more than the winning bid on it with all the people who'd claimed to send money his way), at least. And he looks town, anyway.

...Good enough for me.

Just transfer your money to me! My night senses are amazing!

I trust nachopire more than I trust you right now.

behavior while being tunneled

I guess this is the part I'm not quite understanding because I feel the emotions and such responses there and here have been the same though the actual content is different due to how the tunneling has happened (Fate gave no reasons but pushed me to no end; in contrast, bald gave some reason (if ridiculous) and is pushing me to no end).

Why was ka confirming zdeneks actions a big deal?

Less it being a big deal and more that it made more sense to me from a town perspective.

Here he's been content to kindle fires but not fan them, so to speak. Whereas in the others he fanned the flames as well of the fires he started.

What about him pushing for me even though the flame for my wagon wasn't kindled by him but by Eagle (and Nero, slightly)?

[Garuda]

The plan.

These are people in my town pile:

Nero Cain
Klick
BaldEagle
Pyrotechnics
Mhork
DoctorPepper

These are advertisements:

Watcher
Tracker
Doc
Cop
Accountant

I'm willing to wager he's not on doctor peppers team. The benefit from being declared as such is minimal and I don't think he would stick his head out or such a minimal benefit as scum. I also agree with ffery that this was a bit of a protest against consensus, and I liked that a lot.

[Garuda]

@Voided: he's not confirmed town, because he could conceivably have been locked out of one bid and lied about the other. (If anyone else in the game thinks they've been locked out last night, then he's a confirmed liar, due to the one-Dirty-Trick-per-night clause.) But I think he's almost certainly telling the truth about being locked out of Cop (given that he could have spent far more than the winning bid on it with all the people who'd claimed to send money his way), at least. And he looks town, anyway.

...Good enough for me.

Just transfer your money to me! My night senses are amazing!

I trust nachopire more than I trust you right now.

behavior while being tunneled

I guess this is the part I'm not quite understanding because I feel the emotions and such responses there and here have been the same though the actual content is different due to how the tunneling has happened (Fate gave no reasons but pushed me to no end; in contrast, bald gave some reason (if ridiculous) and is pushing me to no end).

Why was ka confirming zdeneks actions a big deal?

Less it being a big deal and more that it made more sense to me from a town perspective.

Here he's been content to kindle fires but not fan them, so to speak. Whereas in the others he fanned the flames as well of the fires he started.

What about him pushing for me even though the flame for my wagon wasn't kindled by him but by Eagle (and Nero, slightly)?

Why does it make no sense coming fom a scum perspective? I can also talk about the differences between this game and that one when I get to a computer but I'm not doing that shit right now.

[Harakiri]

It's been 8 minutes and like 10 posts from me, you should be ashamed.

@Nacho-Does it?
@Voided-meanie.

[Garuda]

Voided, I don't expect scum to give me any credence, despite my level of tenacity, in fact, I wholly expect them to undermine my credibility at any chance they can. My flip will speak volumes to my true intentions when the time comes.

This seemed incredibly town.

[Garuda]

IMO we out just lose if Peregrine is scum.

I am pretty sure we are screwed anyway, as I am pretty positive at least two if not three scums are in our top 6 town pile, and were just given hoards of cash . My only townread in the pile just died.

Would I be banging my head against a wall if I wanted to lynch someone in the town pile?

As did the fatalism here.

[Garuda]

Whats wrong Cat? Don't like that I dont trust you?

This is a horrible response to our read of you because your read on me has nothing to do with our stated reasoning. You trying to retro-actively call it OMGUS is noted.

About as bad as your read that I am "disengaged" when there are other more disengaged people?

Didn't really like this.

[Lost Butterfly]

@Voided: he's not confirmed town, because he could conceivably have been locked out of one bid and lied about the other. (If anyone else in the game thinks they've been locked out last night, then he's a confirmed liar, due to the one-Dirty-Trick-per-night clause.) But I think he's almost certainly telling the truth about being locked out of Cop (given that he could have spent far more than the winning bid on it with all the people who'd claimed to send money his way), at least. And he looks town, anyway.

Haradrunkiri, there's a non-zero chance I may vote ProHawk today after some rereading, but sorry, I'm not going to rush just for an extra $5 or $10 that means nothing this late in the game.

He looks very town right about now. That reread is going awfully slow, by the way.

Are you talking about Peregrine or ProHawk? Because if it's the latter, are we reading the same game? His posting today has been awful, and not even in a town confused newbie awful way. Just a really blah awful. I mean, this post alone is just terrible:

The only true nulls are in instances where a player does something in every game/close to every game. Natirasha's self voting is one of those instances. Sakura sheeping me is another.

Thats cool. Let me do every freaking anti-town thing in every freaking game so that when I do draw scum, I won't get lynched for it.

VOTE: Voided

His hesitance to hammer town so that someone "more town/less scummy" could hammer is pure scum.

By the way, ProHawk, how is what Voided did different from your reactions to the D1 Hermy lynch?

And since you asked me before why I suspected him, aside from the Hermy stuff, I feel like his stances and reads aren't organic. Leaving aside the weird Hermy stuff, suspecting us D1 when there was momentum against us but then completely dropping it, the very rigid stances on upside down and Harakiri... (I'll be honest--I'm going completely off memory now, because it's time for bed and I don't feel like ISO-ing. So I might retract some of this in the morning.) I also thought he came out badly in his argument with Muffin at the end of D2, and did barely anything on D3. And honestly, it's also a large part process of elimination and lack of anything all that

town

beyond a few irritable-sounding posts.

Of the posts you called "genuine," the paranoia of ffereyllt and her lack of "trajectory" looks good, most of the others were mildly townish but fakeable, the reasons for voting me I didn't like, and I'm honestly WORRIED by the fact that you used his post about a completely alignment-neutral stance on self-voting as a reason to town-read him.

I do remember liking some of his early D2 posts when he was wagoned, and also, I thought he'd improved after morph and I went after him at the end of D3. And I'd also liked ProHawk's post second-guessing his scumread on me for my gambit, back on D1. But I don't like that he seems to get much more fire in him when he's under pressure, though.

Are both of you posting at the same time (I

think

I've spotted both Nacho and Empire posts)? Because your posts on ProHawk seem to be all over the place. Also, if you don't mind me asking, how sober are (each of) you right now?

Also, really? "Coming awful slow" to reread several suspects at minimum and possibly huge sections of the game, as well as analyze it and write out my conclusions? At two-thirty on a Friday night? Is this a hollow attempt to put pressure on me?

[Garuda]

You're dealing with me and me alone. I am sober, but on an iPad. You know that I can be a bit ridiculous, but that doesn't mean my contributions suffer as a result.

[Lost Butterfly]

B-b-but they're so pretty, and their song so beautiful!

You agree Prohawk is scum right?

He's a slightly stale town read but he was preaching anarchy before anarchy was cool + cabd/ffery town read means nope not gonna lynch that.

^wait, that wasn't Empire? I thought +s were an Empire tell.

[Garuda]

What's wrong with the post you quoted? The frustration voiced is probably more alignment neutral than anything else, and I don't remember how the voided hammer went down but I'm pretty sure pro hawk didn't want to hammer hermy because he didn't think hermy was scum.

[Garuda]

B-b-but they're so pretty, and their song so beautiful!

You agree Prohawk is scum right?

He's a slightly stale town read but he was preaching anarchy before anarchy was cool + cabd/ffery town read means nope not gonna lynch that.

^wait, that wasn't Empire? I thought +s were an Empire tell.

They are, but they're apparently not that accurate.

[Garuda]

What about his reads don't look organic? I don't care how he looked when he came out of the argument, he was pushing muffin, one of the stronger players in this game, as scum very strongly based on a meta argument that was actually pretty good. He suspected you D1 and past D1; he dropped suspicion of you when he liked your scumhunting, although he still didn't like your gambit. Rigid stances are also pro hawks play style, doesn't mean his reads aren't organic.

[Garuda]

As is getting fired up under pressure, btw. Happens to me and especially empire.

[Garuda]

Calling you out for being slow wasn't a hollow attempt to pressure you? I thought #3350 sort of gave it away as trolling, but apparently not

[BBmolla]

And I saw LB's post about "LOOK AT THIS, VOIDED CANT BE SCUM BECAUSE OF THESE POSTS" and was unconvinced

Why? What is so scummy about him?

Early game play

No don't do the to me. I've me more.

I can make shit up if you want?

[zMuffinMan]

he was pushing muffin, one of the stronger players in this game, as scum very strongly based on a meta argument that was actually pretty good

the "meta" argument he used against me was based on a single town game and how my attitude was different from that single town game. you thought that was pretty good? plus i'm not really sure what he was doing counts as "pushing" me since he never really showed any willingness to try to get me lynched or anything. but that does make me wonder what happened to his read on me, since i don't remember him really calling me scum recently and i don't recall him mentioning a change in his read on me.