Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[Garuda]

And I saw LB's post about "LOOK AT THIS, VOIDED CANT BE SCUM BECAUSE OF THESE POSTS" and was unconvinced

Why? What is so scummy about him?

Early game play

No don't do the to me. I've me more.

I can make shit up if you want?

Or sheep me easier?

[BBmolla]

I am sheeping you

[Garuda]

he was pushing muffin, one of the stronger players in this game, as scum very strongly based on a meta argument that was actually pretty good

the "meta" argument he used against me was based on a single town game and how my attitude was different from that single town game. you thought that was pretty good? plus i'm not really sure what he was doing counts as "pushing" me since he never really showed any willingness to try to get me lynched or anything. but that does make me wonder what happened to his read on me, since i don't remember him really calling me scum recently and i don't recall him mentioning a change in his read on me.

It was a decent observation, yes. Pushing you was mostly the case against you and calling you scum and telling people to kill you after they kill him. It's a hell of a lot better than anyone else has done.

[Garuda]

I am sheeping you

Voided babe

[zMuffinMan]

Why are we lynching KA? General uselessness?

mm, i didn't like the way KA was pushing through the seanald lynch either. he didn't really look to be thinking about it from an angle of trying to figure out the likeliness of seanald making mistake and instead was pushing the idea that he lied about finances and wouldn't have made that mistake as town, etc etc.

i mean, at least the people attacking him from the angle of talking about red auctions kind of had a point, but KA's angle didn't look town to me.

telling people to kill you after they kill him

i don't even remember this happening

[Garuda]

USO him because fuck you I'm not quoting

[Lost Butterfly]

By the way, my last incoherent, poorly edited wall was up-to-date as of 3356, you dirty spammers.

What's wrong with the post you quoted? The frustration voiced is probably more alignment neutral than anything else, and I don't remember how the voided hammer went down but I'm pretty sure pro hawk didn't want to hammer hermy because he didn't think hermy was scum.

1) The whining about Harakiri being "antitown" and getting away with it set off alarms. Aside from Nati's self-vote and Sakura's Nacho sheeping not even being THAT "antitown", it's something I associate more with scum annoyed that this concrete "scummy" thing can't be used against someone.
2) It's a lazy, shallow, silly reason to vote Voided (who's also a pretty convenient target in this game). I mean, really, Voided offered to hammer, but then essentially went, "Everyone suspects me, so maybe someone whose opinion they value should unilaterally decide whether to end the day." That's null at worst, town at best. And no one loses town cred by hammering a townie at deadline, so ProHawk's point is absurd.
3) I know it's not identical, and didn't mean to imply by my question that I found the post terrible for that reason. But I want to hear what

ProHawk

says, even though the connection isn't that obvious.

I DID like his thoughts on the investigative immune catch and the line about "I'm not as sure now of what I saw, but I still think you're scum" back on D1, but I'd got the impression he didn't initially provide an explanation on his change in read. It just felt like it happened without much fanfare. It's the same problem I have with baldeagle, for the record (that their suspicions of our slot aligned with the group's opinions). Also, I'd been scumhunting even before I came forward with the gambit, as well as during the time he was still calling me scum, so I'm confused by what changed.

I guess I'm confused by how vigorously you're defending ProHawk. It seems earnest and well-intentioned on your end, and I know you're more someone who works on PoE and town reads (I am too to an extent). But I'm not as willing as you are to give him the benefit of the doubt on some things. Maybe it's because I've never seen him play, so I have no clue if his stances always look "rigid" ir he's prone to weird reads.

[Lost Butterfly]

Calling you out for being slow wasn't a hollow attempt to pressure you? I thought #3350 sort of gave it away as trolling, but apparently not

You're the one who called me slow.

Hey, you know what was a really interesting read? That nice meta report on PeregrineV your slot wrote two weeks ago. Boy, that was enlightening!

[Lost Butterfly]

Oh, speaking of which, assuming I didn't miss the answer to this:

Oh, also, Empire, be realistic. You're never actually going to finish a "meta report" of Peregrine at this rate. And no one is interested in a wall of text with links upon links. Why don't you just write 2-3 paragraphs on why you think this looks like her?

Also, a meta report I'd be much more interested in is one on Nero. I still want specifics from you and penguin_alien on why this his townself. Penguin in particular given her slot's sudden stance shift on him.

I know someone asked me to explain why I suspected KingdomAces, but that can come tomorrow.

[Garuda]

Lost Butterfly, I still want to know about your conversation with Magua.

I'd vote for Voided. I really dislike him talking about not being a strong player and then chastising people for their votes. It's just too incongruent.

This was Zdeneks stance on Voided and why he ended up voting him. I didn't like it because it was an opportunistic vote on someone who feels extremely town (disagreements everywhere but), and it's the type of suspicion that's punishing voided for disagreeing with someone, which doesn't at all seem like townZdenek at all, who used to be quite the notorious tunneler.

[Garuda]

Calling you out for being slow wasn't a hollow attempt to pressure you? I thought #3350 sort of gave it away as trolling, but apparently not

You're the one who called me slow.

Hey, you know what was a really interesting read? That nice meta report on PeregrineV your slot wrote two weeks ago. Boy, that was enlightening!

YEAH THANKS EMPIRE I APPRECIATED THIS QUITE A BIT

[zMuffinMan]

ISO him because fuck you I'm not quoting

this?

Kill me then MuffinMan

because i'm pretty sure he meant "kill me then, zmuffinman" not "kill me, then zmuffinman"

grammers is important etc

[Garuda]

Can you say why you think the strong players are all town? I'm inclined to think that's not the case because of no one dying last night.

I didn't like that he expressed suspicion on strong players in general, had grounds for suspicion about lost butterfly, never followed up. It was also pretty strange that he didn't ave a reaction to the investigative immune gambit.

[zMuffinMan]

btw

@Espeonage,

a little late, but why did you send money to morph if you started thinking they were scummy at the end of yesterday?

[Garuda]

Hi, I've only read up to page 26. I'll try to get through everything, but until then is there anything I really need to know?

I saw the plan and followed it, spending five dollars on each of the five abilities, and sent $140 to Lost Butterfly.

Anything else you need from me for now?

I don't really like that he needed prodding to confirm the ivest immunity and hitman, considering the earlier pages. I was hoping we could see if we could confirm it without confirming being the obviously right thing to do, but you can't have it all.

[Garuda]

Up to the end of D1.

Okay, Seanald is looking absolutely terrible with continually going back and forth about how much he's read, along with advertising an incredibly antitown ability.

I'm retracting my townread on Garuda. They seem to be just going after the easy targets, while giving reasons that don't even seem good enough to justify that. I'm speaking mostly about Hermy and Klick here. Yeah hindsight, but Hermy only really gave newbie tells from that first post, and unlike Butterfly, they seemed like they were just voting her for fun and not because they actually had reasons. As for Klick, pretty much everyone's first post who wasn't around the entire time was some version of that. Their reaction to being pressed on it isn't that good either.

Still have townreads on Eagle and Morph. Their reaction to Pepper's entrance at the very least sound like not scum with him.

What do you think of our extended case on Klick? Hermy lynch ended up being a deadline lynch, which is clear from context. I'm also surprised you don't comment at all on the pepper lynch here...?

[Garuda]

Agree with that post giving massive townpoints to Ghostly Penguin, and I forgot to mention in my reply to Muffin earlier that I still have townreads on Lost Butterfly and Harakiri, the only reason I mentioned Morph and Eagle specifically was because of their reaction to one of DP's posts.

More things I should have said before, I think my main qualms with Upside are just not liking N's playstyle. Quilford's entrance made my opinion of the slot a lot better.

Why did you like Quilfords entrance so much?

[Garuda]

I find Garuda's comments on Dr. Pepper in 1306 strange. At this point he seemed not all that much different from Guille/Bankai, but he specifically commented about DP and none of the other near lurkers. In the post after that he calls Seanald a second tier townread with absolutely no explanation, when he'd done nothing even remotely town at that point.

I'm also finding his insistence on Zdenck town strange considering his current opinions on me, but I'll wait until I actually see their full trajectory on this before pushing it.

We did comment on our different reads on most of the lurkers.

[Garuda]

Up to 60. I don't think I can read any more for today, but I should still be around to respond for a while.

Now that I've actually seen content from PV and Pie, I'm definitely getting townreads on them. Morph paranoia is going up, but they're still leaning town.

If this were a bastard game I'd call N scum and Quilford town,

especially with N pressing how many times N says that Quilford is obvtown, but it isn't so I'll just go with town on that slot.

What does this have to do with anything?

[Espeonage]

btw

@Espeonage,

a little late, but why did you send money to morph if you started thinking they were scummy at the end of yesterday?

because that was what the dice rolled.

[Espeonage]

Also why I only sent part of my money.

[Garuda]

Okay, I'll withdraw the part on Seanald. I realized that you did actually say a few things about him after I posted that, but didn't correct myself because I quite frankly disagree about that. I can't really make meta arguments, but people can not care as either alignment. In this case, he could be just as easily upset that he rolled scum in this setup again, and was completely expecting a rehash of Marketplace Mafia II. So I may have been projecting on that point, and I'm sorry about that.

This doesn't make your comments on DP any less suspicious though.

About Voided, the part of the post I quoted in 2420 actually gave me huge town vibes the first time I read it. I forget why I framed it as a negative in the first place, since I was kind of expecting that to be more of a live discussion, but with the response he did give in 2484... I'm not sure. I literally just sat around trying to figure out what it meant for like ten minutes. I am really bad at this whole Mafia thing.

Why doesn't it make our comments on doctor pepper any less suspicious when it shreds the reason you suspected it in the first place? We were conflicted on klick by the end because of replace out shenanigans, banakai had advertisements + some good sounding town points, guille was clearly not going to post so that wasn't scummy. Doctor pepper posted before deadline. He saw deadline was activated. He left without paying any sort of attention or making any effort in letting town get a lynch, didn't engage at panic mode at all. We talked about this and more, but that was the smoking gun. Why did you ignore it?

[Garuda]

On second read... I don't actually know where my Quilford townread came from. I guess it was just that much of a relief to see content from that slot that I didn't really think about it. That and the fact that I agreed with his points on Garuda. I'm moving Quilford to null for now, so that makes that slot overall null-scum.

ISO'ing Muffin, I don't really understand why he was a fairly strong townread of a few people early D1, but there were a few incidences of trying to get people who were nonsensically arguing back on track, and nothing really stood out as scummy to me. I'll put him at leaning town right now.

Morph, you still haven't said how my engagement is an alignment tell.

Note to self: Still to ISO, BBmolla, ProHawk, Nero. Not sure if this is going to be now, because I kind of want sleep at the moment.

Called out for to having a real reason to call Quilford town, moves the slot to null-scum (despite saying before that Quilford was the only reason he wasn't confident the slot was scum). Keeps bringing up that his complete lack of engagement is a null tell, which isn't true at all.

[Harakiri]

I'm still here if anyone cares.

[Garuda]

Just like everyone else is saying that they have a mild scumread on Garuda.

I didn't lie this because he was using his scum read on us as a reason to show how he hasn't been being opportunistic, yet most of his thoughts aren't really that original.