Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

F-16_Fighting_Falcon · Post Post #500 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:57 am

Day 1, Votecount 15

Street Hassle [1]

Kid A

Kid A [0]

TvK [0]

My Milked Eek [3]

Herself, Squirrel Girl, Garmr

LolWagons [2]

ICEninja, havingfitz

Regfan [1]

The Silver Bard

ICEninja [0]

Garmr [0]

Squirrel Girl [0]

The Silver Bard [1]

TvK

Wake88 [0]

Herself [0]

havingfitz [3]

Street Hassle, LolWagons, Regfan

Not Voting [2]

- My Milked Eek, Wake88

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is on November 23rd at 7:30 AM PST or in (expired on 2013-11-23 07:30:00)

Street Hassle · Post Post #501 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:04 am

In post 498, Wake1 wrote:
In post 494, Street Hassle wrote:
In post 489, Wake1 wrote:HEY. Don't be making declarative statements with exceptional evidence. YOU. Yeah, YOU, Street Hassle. You say BF is Scum. You want votes to garner your credibility? Give us damned good reasons for your divination why don't you? Otherwise that's just as valuable as "ICEninja is Town Doctor," "SG hates nuts," "Herself is Mafia Godfather." It has no value with evidentiary grounding. You really should explain yourself here, otherwise I've got some charge-shots with your name on it, and I don't miss, and these mother-fucking beams have homing capabilities.
Since this is up to post 61 or whatever, I'm going to assume that once you've read far enough into the thread then you'll know why Empire posted the vote the way he did, and why I was snooty about the demands for details.

We'll scumhunt as we see fit with the tools we know and love.
...or, you could enlighten us with a brief recap. That'd help everyone who's taking notes, and speed the catching-up of other players like me and Bard.

Your last sentence does absolutely nothing to allay my suspicion of you, because it doesn't respond to anything I said in the post you quoted. Come on, hydra. Engage. You've got two heads, so you guys can even take alternating breaks while engaging me. Kindly answer my questions in that post, please. I'm not particularly satisfied with your lukewarm rebuttal, so I'm deciding whether to fire upon you sooner or later. What do you think?

244 is the succinct recap for why Empire placed that vote. He saw an opportunity to get a decent read on banksys. Neither of us were concerned about drumming up a big wagon on banksys and in fact I would have been alarmed if that had happened given the game state.

This is why I framed my response as I did. We will continue to scumhunt as we see fit. Sometimes that means we won't post full reasoning until either the time is ripe or, as in this case, the opportunity fades away.

If there are any other questions buried in your harangue you'll have to repost, preferably with question marks.

Regfan · Post Post #502 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:09 am

I just got back from watching the rugby game, about to pass out for probably like 14 hours and then I'll get around to this.

Why has no one else joined the Having wagon? There's

free

half price cookies and a likely scum lynch for whoever joins.

The Silver Bard · Post Post #503 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:41 am

Why I believe Herself is scum.

I am kind of bundling up SG and Herself as potential scumbuddies here (I didn’t like SG’s posts at all at the start), so keep this in mind when reading.

The first problem I have with Herself is post 57. I don’t like that Herself comes out and defends SG here, mainly because I don’t like SG’s posting up until this point and I think SG should be required to fend for herself. I see it as a possible defense of a scumbuddy.

The defense of SG just posting fluff continues in 61. Here Herself basically says it is ok for SG to be useless the rest of the game, because someone got to be the one sheeping the “better” townies.

This is something I think is bullshit. Everyone needs to provide their own reasoning as town, just mindless sheeping makes it almost impossible for the rest of us to read them.

A distancing post saying “I don’t like SG” comes along in 78. This is the other half of the hydra speaking. Ends the post with SG is probably town anyways, I just have to ignore her. Nice way to keep distance and softdefending them. Also the whole daychat thing in this post seems off to me. Daychat is great for scum to make plans. I have never seen a scumQT that talks about anything other than the game, and I have been in mostly games with daychat for scum.

Trying to persuade others that their reads are wrong in 90. The arguments for why their reads are wrong seems forced. The arguments seems poor, and is hard to understand.

129 I disagree with. Nothing about SH seems forced in this game.

133 I first misread and thought Herself wanted to lynch Kid A, Garmr. SG and Ice. My first thought was: “Who is stupid enough to want to lynch Ice in this game. This is a scummove!” But then it turns out to be that Herself want to cooperate with them (136). Working with Ice is ok, the rest is strange. SG is possible scum, Kid A haven’t provided much and Garmr isn’t someone I would put into the town category at this point in time.

134 Speaking for SG!! Why on earth do Herself feel that she needs to come to the rescue of SG here? Let SG defend SG. This feels like a scumbuddy defense IMO. (ICE picked up on this as well in

137, good pick up).
The discussion between Herself and SG from 163 -173 seems so manufactured and odd to me. Feels like they planned to have this chat in scumQT.

All the way up until now she haven’t really been giving off any reads. Just trying to make other question their own reads. And maybe some mild mentioning of lurking players. And then she starts with the fitztunnel. As a scumplayer I find it easier to just tunnel the fuck out of as player, and then have some small backup “scumreads” on lurking and low-impact players. It is much easier than giving reads on many players.

221 Emocard played. Only scum does this. Playing on emotions rather than logic.

293 Worst reads ever! Completely out of sync with mine. Not having ICE and SH as town by now seems way off. Having SG, TSO and Kid A as townreads, how is that possible??? Regfan is someone I am leaning town on myself, so this one is ok. Fitz and milked his scumreads. Really the player you are tunneling, but who isn’t obvious scum (I have him pretty neutral by now) and milked the lurker? Such scummy reads.
Got 4 townreads where 3 is easy to backpedal on later, saying they don’t look town after all.
2 neutrals who should be listed as town. Why? Because “confirmed” towns are bad for scum.
2 poor scumreads.

Her latest readpost (496) includes the obvious townies SH and ICE. But other than that her reads still suck. Also now including me as scum because I think she is my biggest scumread, and this without hearing my reasons. Really?
Herself is scum and should be lynched today-.

VOTE: Herself

Wake1 · Post Post #504 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:41 am

Squirrel Girl

———✹

Who are your top Scumreads?

———✹

Please explain why you felt like Kid A and TvK were trying to compete for votes.

———✹

What's your current read on The Silver Bard?

———✹

Why did you vote for My Milked Eek when he wasn't around to react?

———✹

Does Street Hassle still look bad in your opinion?

———✹

You've voted and unvoted in individual posts eight times. Is this part of your strategy?

———✹

What's your current read on TvK?

———✹

Why are Fitz and Kid A no longer within your Town read core?

Spoiler:

The Silver Bard · Post Post #505 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:55 am

In post 469, Street Hassle wrote:
In post 463, The Silver Bard wrote:So I have been reading up on this game since I got the go ahead to replace in about 2-2.5 hours ago. I play mafia by creating lists of what I find scummy and what I find townie while I go through the game. Reading this many pages in 2,5 hours may have cause me to miss somethings, and I generally find the last pages hard to read with as much details as the first (this is also so for this game).
For now I will post the ones I got the most “scumpoints” on and the ones I got the most “townpoints” on.

The runaway winner for most points awarded is Herself, and all of those are scumpoints. So she/he/it is basicly my biggest scumread.
My number two scumread is Squirrel Girl.
Number 3 is TvK.

For town I got ICEninja as my biggest townread, and Street Hassle as my second biggest scumread.

I will leave you with this for now, I will come back later, or tomorrow with a better post with better analysis. I will need to do some ISO’ing then, and try to battle my confirmation bias (don’t bet on me being able to do this, the bias is strong in this one!)
I checked to see if you used this approach to scumhunting in your completed MS newbie game. It looks like you didn't. You replaced into that game, as well, and into a fairly dire LYLO situation.

Is this something new you are trying out? How does it work?

If you did read post #855 in that game you see that I did. And the following discussions between me and Nacho was him not believing that my list was genuine.

Still this don't give you anything to work on. I would 100% do this as scum as well (I will try to emulate my townplaystyle as scum). In fact I read through the entire thread and made my reads before reading my PM.

The question then is if you believe me. If you don't and you believed I looked at my PM my reasoning should be poor enough and my reads should not seem genuine for you to see that I am scum (if I did roll scum).

If you do believe me the question is: If he rolled scum, did he alter his reads after figuring out who his scumbuddies are? If I had all my scumbuddies on my scummylist I probably would, but if they are on my townlist or neutral I would just carry on and post my reads as they were.

Herself · Post Post #506 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:56 am

In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote:The defense of SG just posting fluff continues in 61. Here Herself basically says it is ok for SG to be useless the rest of the game, because someone got to be the one sheeping the “better” townies.

No, I didn't basically say that at all. I basically said that SG was making it known that her vote is malleable and she won't be prone to taking strong stances that stagnate the game--which is protown.

In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote:133 I first misread and thought Herself wanted to lynch Kid A, Garmr. SG and Ice. My first thought was: “Who is stupid enough to want to lynch Ice in this game. This is a scummove!” But then it turns out to be that Herself want to cooperate with them (136). Working with Ice is ok, the rest is strange. SG is possible scum, Kid A haven’t provided much and Garmr isn’t someone I would put into the town category at this point in time.

You don't agree with my townreads so I'm scum? Keep this in mind for later.

In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote:134 Speaking for SG!! Why on earth do Herself feel that she needs to come to the rescue of SG here? Let SG defend SG. This feels like a scumbuddy defense IMO. (ICE picked up on this as well in

Do you think all scumbuddies defend one another so blatantly? I get townreads and then I defend them when other players badger them with BS accusations--especially if the 2nd player is also a townread. I can't have my townreads fighting each other if I'm trying to get someone lynched.

In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote:The discussion between Herself and SG from 163 -173 seems so manufactured and odd to me. Feels like they planned to have this chat in scumQT.

Yawn. This isn't scumhunting. "Feels like they planned to have this chat in a QT" is just bullshit narrative building.

In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote:All the way up until now she haven’t really been giving off any reads. Just trying to make other question their own reads. And maybe some mild mentioning of lurking players. And then she starts with the fitztunnel. As a scumplayer I find it easier to just tunnel the fuck out of as player, and then have some small backup “scumreads” on lurking and low-impact players. It is much easier than giving reads on many players.

We haven't been giving off reads? I thought you just said we were scum because our town reads sucked. You seem to be having some trouble keeping track of why we are scum, why?

In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote:Her latest readpost (496) includes the obvious townies SH and ICE. But other than that her reads still suck. Also now including me as scum because I think she is my biggest scumread, and this without hearing my reasons. Really?

I am also including you as scum because your predecessor was scummy and flaked and your opening post was terrible. It had nothing to do with your read on us, and if you were paying attention to the game you would understand that I have absolutely no problem with someone thinking I'm scum--I have a problem when someone is scummy. Which is why you and Fitz are scum, and the other guy who has been tunneling us all game (Ice) is town.

- Des

The Silver Bard · Post Post #507 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:04 am

In post 472, ICEninja wrote:Can we policy lynch Quadraxis?

Considering how little he's posted for having finished his V/LA a fair bit ago, plus how obnoxious his content this, actually makes this a serious request.

Town is being quite dysfunctional at the moment with no real solid wagons, except fitz (which admittingly isn't a bad wagon but not my preferred lynch) and a couple itty-bitty wagons. This silver guys replaces in and throws around some scum reads that have a basically zero chance of getting a lynch through today (though I wouldn't mind looking at lynching Herself tomorrow).

Plus I feel like everyone is going to forget almost instantly how insanely scummy TSO and the situation around his replacement so I doubt I'm even going to get my preferred lynch anyway.

How does Herself have a zero chance of getting lynched today? Both you and fitz is scumreading her if I am not mistaken. And so am I. That is far from a zero chance. At least compared to the other wagons that got votes atm.

I don't see why consider it bad and dysfunctional that my scumreads aren't necessary the top wagons. My initial scumreads shouldn't be influenced by what the rest thinks.

Herself · Post Post #508 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:05 am

There is a zero chance of us getting lynched ever.

- Des

The Silver Bard · Post Post #509 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:18 am

In post 506, Herself wrote:
In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote:The defense of SG just posting fluff continues in 61. Here Herself basically says it is ok for SG to be useless the rest of the game, because someone got to be the one sheeping the “better” townies.
No, I didn't basically say that at all. I basically said that SG was making it known that her vote is malleable and she won't be prone to taking strong stances that stagnate the game--which is protown.

In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote:133 I first misread and thought Herself wanted to lynch Kid A, Garmr. SG and Ice. My first thought was: “Who is stupid enough to want to lynch Ice in this game. This is a scummove!” But then it turns out to be that Herself want to cooperate with them (136). Working with Ice is ok, the rest is strange. SG is possible scum, Kid A haven’t provided much and Garmr isn’t someone I would put into the town category at this point in time.
You don't agree with my townreads so I'm scum? Keep this in mind for later.
(1)

In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote:134 Speaking for SG!! Why on earth do Herself feel that she needs to come to the rescue of SG here? Let SG defend SG. This feels like a scumbuddy defense IMO. (ICE picked up on this as well in
Do you think all scumbuddies defend one another so blatantly? I get townreads and then I defend them when other players badger them with BS accusations--especially if the 2nd player is also a townread. I can't have my townreads fighting each other if I'm trying to get someone lynched.
(2)

In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote:The discussion between Herself and SG from 163 -173 seems so manufactured and odd to me. Feels like they planned to have this chat in scumQT.
Yawn. This isn't scumhunting. "Feels like they planned to have this chat in a QT" is just bullshit narrative building.

(3)

In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote:All the way up until now she haven’t really been giving off any reads. Just trying to make other question their own reads. And maybe some mild mentioning of lurking players. And then she starts with the fitztunnel. As a scumplayer I find it easier to just tunnel the fuck out of as player, and then have some small backup “scumreads” on lurking and low-impact players. It is much easier than giving reads on many players.
We haven't been giving off reads? I thought you just said we were scum because our town reads sucked. You seem to be having some trouble keeping track of why we are scum, why?
(4)

In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote:Her latest readpost (496) includes the obvious townies SH and ICE. But other than that her reads still suck. Also now including me as scum because I think she is my biggest scumread, and this without hearing my reasons. Really?
I am also including you as scum because your predecessor was scummy and flaked and your opening post was terrible. It had nothing to do with your read on us, and if you were paying attention to the game you would understand that I have absolutely no problem with someone thinking I'm scum--I have a problem when someone is scummy. Which is why you and Fitz are scum, and the other guy who has been tunneling us all game (Ice) is town.

(5)

- Des

1. Yes, me and you disagreeing about who is town and who is scum is something that makes you scummier in my book.

2. Yeah, scumbuddies can do this. It is not necessarily true that defending someone who is scum makes you scum, but when I think both of you are scum I find this strange. Maybe some confirmation bias here but yeah, that is what I feel about it.

3. Scumhunting or not. This is what I feel about that talk. I don’t need others to agree with me on this. But your talk felt strange to me, that’s it.

4. You posting 4 people you want to “work” with isn’t giving reads. You aren’t even giving reasons to why you think they are town. So no, you haven’t given proper reads.

5. Well my spot went from someone you didn’t post as scum in 293 to me being scum right after I think you are scum. Strange… Also including ICE as scum is retarded no matter how hard he tunneled you so that is pretty much why you haven’t done that.

TvK · Post Post #510 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:20 am

In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote: 293 Worst reads ever! Completely out of sync with mine. Not having ICE and SH as town by now seems way off. Having SG, TSO and Kid A as townreads, how is that possible??? Regfan is someone I am leaning town on myself, so this one is ok. Fitz and milked his scumreads. Really the player you are tunneling, but who isn’t obvious scum (I have him pretty neutral by now) and milked the lurker? Such scummy reads.
Got 4 townreads where 3 is easy to backpedal on later, saying they don’t look town after all.
2 neutrals who should be listed as town. Why? Because “confirmed” towns are bad for scum.
2 poor scumreads.

Her latest readpost (496) includes the obvious townies SH and ICE. But other than that her reads still suck. Also now including me as scum because I think she is my biggest scumread, and this without hearing my reasons. Really?
Herself is scum and should be lynched today-.

VOTE: Herself

Is it just me or is this absolutely not convincing at all? "Omg your reads suck so I hard, my reads are the only ones that are right"?

Garmr · Post Post #511 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:22 am

In post 510, TvK wrote:
In post 503, The Silver Bard wrote: 293 Worst reads ever! Completely out of sync with mine. Not having ICE and SH as town by now seems way off. Having SG, TSO and Kid A as townreads, how is that possible??? Regfan is someone I am leaning town on myself, so this one is ok. Fitz and milked his scumreads. Really the player you are tunneling, but who isn’t obvious scum (I have him pretty neutral by now) and milked the lurker? Such scummy reads.
Got 4 townreads where 3 is easy to backpedal on later, saying they don’t look town after all.
2 neutrals who should be listed as town. Why? Because “confirmed” towns are bad for scum.
2 poor scumreads.

Her latest readpost (496) includes the obvious townies SH and ICE. But other than that her reads still suck. Also now including me as scum because I think she is my biggest scumread, and this without hearing my reasons. Really?
Herself is scum and should be lynched today-.

VOTE: Herself
Is it just me or is this absolutely not convincing at all? "Omg your reads suck so I hard, my reads are the only ones that are right"?

It's not just you.

Herself · Post Post #512 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:25 am

1. That's really silly considering you just said that as town your reads shouldn't be influenced by what everyone else thinks. So why are we scum for not sharing your townreads?
2. No shit scumbuddies

can

do it. I'm asking if you think, in practice, scumbuddies

actually

do it.
3. Right, but you are using that as a piece of ammo in your Herself-scum case. So if you are going to reference something that happened and then use it as further evidence for why we are scum, it should probably constitute "scumhunting" don't you think?
4. Yes it is. I don't work with scumreads. Do you? And you're moving goalposts. Did I not have reads, or had I not given reasons for my reads so they don't really count? Because you said the former first, but now you're saying the latter.
5. "orestes - where did he go. its like we are at a concert that was supposed to start at 11pm and it is now 1am and we are still waiting." <---That's not good. I'm townreading Kid A, who made the most salient point on Orestes scum. I think you can connect the dots from there.

- Des

The Silver Bard · Post Post #513 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:45 am

Now onto why I think Squirrel Girl is scum.

Her posts all the way up until 84 is just fluff and nonsensical (maybe with the exception of a poor vote on ICE in 41 who isn’t doing her any favors).

Post 113 is actually an ok post that gives reads all up until she wants to vote ICE. To me this either means scum or bad town (don’t get offended if I say bad it means I don’t understand your logic, lets just say bad=me and you not seeing eye to eye).

126 Voting Street Hassel??? I don’t understand. At this point Street Hassle is pretty townie to me.

163-173 as I mentioned in my post on Herself is something I see as a strange discussion.

209 Don’t like SG siding with Herself against havingfitz, mainly because I find Herself a lot more scummy. Her post on ICE being town I like though.

301 Don’t agree with a vote on milkedeek. Only reason to vote is lurking. There are better targets.

Other than this:

In general I don’t like SG’s posts, there is a lot of filler there. Her reads are way out of sync with mine. And her vote is moving around like crazy.

I would like a post from SG that sums up her reads better. Meaning more players mentioned and more reasoning behind it. She have posted reads but just a few at a time, and with just a few sentences of reasoning.

One thing that is in SG’s favor though is that she at least is posting her reads, and is posting questions.

Herself · Post Post #514 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:48 am

There is extreme dissonance in Bards' scumhunting. He tells Ice that he is not beholden to the general consensus and that he isn't going to alter his scumreads to match it, but literally all of his scumhunting is "this person voted someone I think is town/this person townreads someone I think is scum."

{Fitz, Bard, Milked} is today's kill list.

- Des

Herself · Post Post #515 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:51 am

In other word, even though he is ostensibly town and is aware of the fact that his reads disagree with most of the other players', his scum reads consist of players who disagree with his reads.

^ Not a town mindset.

- Des

Squirrel Girl · Post Post #516 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:53 am

In post 498, Wake1 wrote:The questions were implied, SG. I even included "explanation would be nice."

Can you show where you included that 'explanations would be nice' comment? I also feel this is a step back from me dodging, now I could easily just say I didn't notice the implied question, and its kind of weird to flip out on someone for not answering a question you never actually asked. I am not a fan.

In post 498, Wake1 wrote:When things are pointed out, and in the same segment "explanation would be nice" is included, know that you've got some explaining to do. Thanks.

I am looking at the segment. I fail to see that phrase. You asked Fitz to explain something. You asked Street to explain something. You never asked me to. Maybe you intended to and forgot, but that isn't my fault and I want an apology and a retraction of the dodging comment from you or for you to show where I'm missing you asking a question or even clearly implying one.

In post 498, Wake1 wrote:Don't even try to waste your time saying that I'm flailing. That's a deliberate attempt to shift focus and attention away from you and onto the inquirer. Scum does that.
Not Town.

If this is true, then your accusation of dodging to me after I asked you a question would be the same thing, wouldn't it? You still haven't answered my question.

In post 498, Wake1 wrote:After you answer this post and before/after I fire upon you, I
will
answer your question(s).
Of that you have my word.

Well, I have answered your questions, so I guess I'm still waiting on your end now.

In post 504, Wake1 wrote:
Squirrel Girl

———✹
Who are your top Scumreads?

———✹
Please explain why you felt like Kid A and TvK were trying to compete for votes.

———✹
What's your current read on The Silver Bard?

———✹
Why did you vote for My Milked Eek when he wasn't around to react?

———✹
Does Street Hassle still look bad in your opinion?

———✹
You've voted and unvoted in individual posts eight times. Is this part of your strategy?

———✹
What's your current read on TvK?

———✹
Why are Fitz and Kid A no longer within your Town read core?

1. I'm not really sure or I'd probably be more forceful about who I want to lynch. I guess I would call it TvK and Kid A at this stage. Eek is a solid third.

2. Because both of them are under heat and both are posting what amounts to prod dodge posts wherein they say nothing. That one did it right after the other and I felt the action was scummy, I felt they were competing to see who could look scummiest and thus earn the most votes.

3. Towny.

4. I voted Milked twice. The first time to wagon him, the second time because I thought we could get a bigger wagon.

5. Yes.

6. I'm not sure what you mean by 'individual posts' because, by definition, votes happen in individual posts. I would say, yes, my votes are part of my strategy. I hope that is the same for everyone. When you respond to this answer can you also explain the point of this question, it seems kinda silly.

7. Scummy.

8. I don't understand this question and think it's because you don't follow my reads or are misunderstanding something I said. I had Fitz as scummy and have recently called him more townish. I have never indicated a towny vibe of any sort on Kid A that I can remember, so though, yes, I do not tink he's town I don't think that's a change in my stance.

I am still waiting for you to answer my question. SHould I start screaming about how you're dodging now? My question wasn't even implied. It had a question mark and everything!

Squirrel Girl · Post Post #517 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:58 am

In post 513, The Silver Bard wrote:Post 113 is actually an ok post that gives reads all up until she wants to vote ICE. To me this either means scum or bad town (don’t get offended if I say bad it means I don’t understand your logic, lets just say bad=me and you not seeing eye to eye).

In post 513, The Silver Bard wrote:126 Voting Street Hassel??? I don’t understand. At this point Street Hassle is pretty townie to me.

I explained my reasoning for the vote. What parts do you find scummy in my reasoning?

In post 513, The Silver Bard wrote:And her vote is moving around like crazy.

Why is that scummy?

In post 513, The Silver Bard wrote:I would like a post from SG that sums up her reads better. Meaning more players mentioned and more reasoning behind it. She have posted reads but just a few at a time, and with just a few sentences of reasoning.

Towny; Regfan, ICE, Garmr, Silver Bard, Herself, havingfitz
Scummy;Street Hassle, Kid A, TvK, Millked Eek
Nully; LolWagons, Wake

In post 513, The Silver Bard wrote:One thing that is in SG’s favor though is that she at least is posting her reads, and is posting questions.

Yay!

The Silver Bard · Post Post #518 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:10 am

In post 512, Herself wrote:1. That's really silly considering you just said that as town your reads shouldn't be influenced by what everyone else thinks. So why are we scum for not sharing your townreads?
2. No shit scumbuddies
can
do it. I'm asking if you think, in practice, scumbuddies
actually
do it.
3. Right, but you are using that as a piece of ammo in your Herself-scum case. So if you are going to reference something that happened and then use it as further evidence for why we are scum, it should probably constitute "scumhunting" don't you think?
4. Yes it is. I don't work with scumreads. Do you? And you're moving goalposts. Did I not have reads, or had I not given reasons for my reads so they don't really count? Because you said the former first, but now you're saying the latter.
5. "orestes - where did he go. its like we are at a concert that was supposed to start at 11pm and it is now 1am and we are still waiting." <---That's not good. I'm townreading Kid A, who made the most salient point on Orestes scum. I think you can connect the dots from there.

- Des

1. You might have misunderstood me. My read shouldn’t be influenced by what for instance ICE thinks about the game. Even though I think he is town I shouldn’t sheep onto him. I should make up my own mind. That is what I meant about that. Anyone not agreeing with me is of course someone I get suspicious of as I think my reads are right. So if you have a different opinion that is either because we don’t agree about what is scummy or not or because you are scum.

2. Scumbuddies do this all the time. I have played a lot of game where scum have blatantly defended other scum.

3. I am not using it as evidence. I am using at as a reason for why I think you are scum. If the rest thinks I am wrong that is fine. This is what I think when I read those posts.

4. I said you didn’t have reads. Interpret that as you want. If you want to bicker about small “twists of tongue-stuff” I will not accommodate you.

5. You didn’t have him listed with the other twos in your 293. You townreading Kid A doesn’t mean you automatically think Orestes is scum.

Herself · Post Post #519 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:19 am

1. No I'm understanding you just fine. You are town and you shouldn't sheep anyone (which means agree with them), but anyone who disagrees with you (or isn't sheeping your reads) is either shit town or scum. This is seriously assbackwards.
2. OK.
3. I don't get it. You aren't using it as evidence, but you are using it as a reason why you think I'm scum? Reasons =/= evidence in your lexicon?
4. I am interpreting it, as you having no idea what you're talking about. You are probably the only one in the room who didn't/doesn't want to understand that when I told ffery (who would absolutely understand my meaning) I wanted to work with X, Y, and Z, that X, Y, and Z were town.
5. /sigh...No, it doesn't, but the entirety of Kid A's content up to the point where I had read him as town was his early Orestes push. Get it?

- Des

The Silver Bard · Post Post #520 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:31 am

In post 517, Squirrel Girl wrote:
In post 513, The Silver Bard wrote:Post 113 is actually an ok post that gives reads all up until she wants to vote ICE. To me this either means scum or bad town (don’t get offended if I say bad it means I don’t understand your logic, lets just say bad=me and you not seeing eye to eye).

In post 513, The Silver Bard wrote:126 Voting Street Hassel??? I don’t understand. At this point Street Hassle is pretty townie to me.
I explained my reasoning for the vote. What parts do you find scummy in my reasoning?
1

In post 513, The Silver Bard wrote:And her vote is moving around like crazy.
Why is that scummy?
2

In post 513, The Silver Bard wrote:I would like a post from SG that sums up her reads better. Meaning more players mentioned and more reasoning behind it. She have posted reads but just a few at a time, and with just a few sentences of reasoning.
Towny; Regfan, ICE, Garmr, Silver Bard, Herself, havingfitz
Scummy;Street Hassle, Kid A, TvK, Millked Eek
Nully; LolWagons, Wake
3

In post 513, The Silver Bard wrote:One thing that is in SG’s favor though is that she at least is posting her reads, and is posting questions.
Yay!

1. As I said in my book SH was pretty townie at this point. So the reason why I find it scummie is that I disagree. Alone it is just something I give a little scumpoint (somthing that make me abit suspicious about you), but it is the sum of things that make me lean this way or that way.

2. I like real pressure, with real reasoning behind it. Alot of voteswitches provides little pressure IMO, and makes it hard to understand what your true stance is.

3. Even though I don't agree with some of your reads on the readlist (mainly SH and Herself) and even if you don't provide reasons it at least gives a picture of what you think at the moment. I like that you give such a list upon request, it shows that you are willing to cooperate :9

The Silver Bard · Post Post #521 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:47 am

In post 519, Herself wrote:1. No I'm understanding you just fine. You are town and you shouldn't sheep anyone (which means agree with them), but anyone who disagrees with you (or isn't sheeping your reads) is either shit town or scum. This is seriously assbackwards.

2. OK.

3. I don't get it. You aren't using it as evidence, but you are using it as a reason why you think I'm scum? Reasons =/= evidence in your lexicon?

4. I am interpreting it, as you having no idea what you're talking about. You are probably the only one in the room who didn't/doesn't want to understand that when I told ffery (who would absolutely understand my meaning) I wanted to work with X, Y, and Z, that X, Y, and Z were town.

5. /sigh...No, it doesn't, but the entirety of Kid A's content up to the point where I had read him as town was his early Orestes push. Get it?

- Des

1. Yeah, mindless sheeping is bad. You understand what I mean there. Good. But when I read a thread and someone’s thoughts differ a lot from mine I get suspicious of them. If you can’t understand that one doesn’t exclude the other then fine, I can’t make you understand it.
3. No reasoning isn’t the same as evidence. I am speculating when I am reasoning, evidence is facts. I got no facts that proves you are scum. Nothing. But I do BELIEVE it, and I provide my reasons for why I BELIEVE it.
4. Yeah, you made it clear in post # 136 that you wanted to work with them hence they are town. Me writing that you didn’t provide reads is therefore slightly inaccurate portray, but it is just wordtwisting. I still believe that that post isn’t a good readpost, and that is the point. Please stop bickering about such silly things as this it is just immaterial.
5. I get it. But I read Kid A’s post 70 as well. And I thought: “States his opinion clearly, a slight townpoint. Even though he is being abit lurky”. So I also gave him a townpoint for it, even without agreeing that my slot was scum.

Squirrel Girl · Post Post #522 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:07 am

In post 520, The Silver Bard wrote:1. As I said in my book SH was pretty townie at this point. So the reason why I find it scummie is that I disagree. Alone it is just something I give a little scumpoint (somthing that make me abit suspicious about you), but it is the sum of things that make me lean this way or that way.

2. I like real pressure, with real reasoning behind it. Alot of voteswitches provides little pressure IMO, and makes it hard to understand what your true stance is.

3. Even though I don't agree with some of your reads on the readlist (mainly SH and Herself) and even if you don't provide reasons it at least gives a picture of what you think at the moment. I like that you give such a list upon request, it shows that you are willing to cooperate :9

1. But obviously that matters less than your ability to decide if I am calling them scum for scummy or townish reasons. Does my logic for suspecting them make sense to you? If yes, then why am I scummy for thinking like that? If no, how does my logic fail to make sense and what does that tell you about my alignment?

2. I disagree. I still don't understand how that makes me scummy - scum wouldn't want to give away their ability to create pressure votes, and though I guess it makes sense that it would make it hard to understand my stance and that this makes me scummy, I don't think my stances have been ahrd to understand. Have you had trouble understanding my stances? Is that why you find me scummy?

The Silver Bard · Post Post #523 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:21 am

In post 488, TvK wrote:I don't feel comfortable with calling Wake town after 19 pages of silence and then a couple of decent posts. Also, Bard, how are your scumpoints calculated? Do you immediatly call the person with the most scumpoints your top scumread? Is the total amount of scumpoints relative to factors like total number of posts? And do lurkers get just as many scumpoints as posters? If so, where does for example Quadraxis/Wake, who had exactly 1 post before you posted, rank?

Didn't see this one earlier. I don't have a system that awards 2 scumpoint for this and 5 for this. All I do is I write down posts I find scummy or townie in a excellsheet. You can say a "scumpoint" is a post I find scummy, a "townpoint" is a post I find townie. People who posts little don't get in my spreadsheet. I hate lurkers though, because they can't be read, it is a poor strategy and joining a game and not posting should be a bannable offence (at least if it happends alot).

F-16_Fighting_Falcon · Post Post #524 (ISO) » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:37 am

bump for vc