A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Titus]

Tierce, I don't read tea leaves well. I strongly read you as town but I'm not going to sheep based on phantom untestable statements. Without knowing what it is, you could be interpreting what happened wrong. I'm not going to push you to claim whatever it was that happened and I'll factor in your confidence level but I cannot give much weight to what cannot be explained. Beyond your vouch, everything seems scummy to me about GR.

[PrideandJoy]

Push!Cephir

I'll have you know that Cephir is the fourth largest wagon comprised of me. in the case of you vs. Garuk, the obvious choice is to vote you. There, I believe that fully elucidates my preferences concerning the 4 major wagons at this time.

Cephir is as likely to be lynched as anyone else not named PnJ atm. (maybe, maybe, Alchemist has greater chances than others). He's the one I want right now. his townread on us turned "stale" (which is called an excuse to rationalize fomenting a scum read solely for inactivity). His focus today has been on 2/17 other people. And his delving into Quadz has yielded nothing of worth.

[PrideandJoy]

Pretend Garruk is a friendly neighbor and be done with it for gods sake.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 5, Vc 12

PrideandJoy (8) -

kanyeknowsbest, Tammy, Cephrir, Benmage, The Alchemist, elleheathen, AGar, Goat on a Raft

Garruk Relentless (4) -

Messiah Complex, SafetyDance, Titus, ooba

Titus (3) -

Goat on a Raft, Garuk Relentless, Nautilius

Cephrir (1) -

PrideandJoy

Not voting (3) -

Alfred Borden, Shadoweh, Tierce

With 18 alive it takes 10 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 25th of Novemberat 10:00 EDT
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-11-25 10:00:00)
  

Prodding Shadoweheh

[Tierce]

Tierce, I don't read tea leaves well. I strongly read you as town but I'm not going to sheep based on phantom untestable statements. Without knowing what it is, you could be interpreting what happened wrong. I'm not going to push you to claim whatever it was that happened and I'll factor in your confidence level but I cannot give much weight to what cannot be explained. Beyond your vouch, everything seems scummy to me about GR.

Pretend Garruk is a friendly neighbor and be done with it for gods sake.

What he said.

I know they targeted me on N1. They've made it obvious it was them, and we both know what was involved. And if I ate a kill that Night, I'm telling you that it is ridiculous for scum to do both things--so they can't be on the same team.

Which means that if you are taking me as Town, yes, you need to take me as vouching for them, because [this thing I am not disclosing as it is up to them and not up to myself] means they are not aligned with anyone who may have shot me.

And while we have some Town geniuses who thought vanillizing me was a great idea (yes

you

~), I don't think any vig on their right mind (hi mollie!) would have shot me N1, so if I'm responsible for the missing kill, it came at the hands of scum and Garruk Relentless are not aligned with them.

End of story. Move your vote.

[Shadoweh]

Don't prod me bro!
Mollie can't have shot you because I'm the vig damnit. Although I could have killed you if I wanted to! (nevar)

[kanyeknowsbest]

Tierce, I don't read tea leaves well. I strongly read you as town but I'm not going to sheep based on phantom untestable statements. Without knowing what it is, you could be interpreting what happened wrong. I'm not going to push you to claim whatever it was that happened and I'll factor in your confidence level but I cannot give much weight to what cannot be explained. Beyond your vouch, everything seems scummy to me about GR.

Pretend Garruk is a friendly neighbor and be done with it for gods sake.

What he said.

I know they targeted me on N1. They've made it obvious it was them, and we both know what was involved. And if I ate a kill that Night, I'm telling you that it is ridiculous for scum to do both things--so they can't be on the same team.

Which means that if you are taking me as Town, yes, you need to take me as vouching for them, because [this thing I am not disclosing as it is up to them and not up to myself] means they are not aligned with anyone who may have shot me.

And while we have some Town geniuses who thought vanillizing me was a great idea (yes

you

~), I don't think any vig on their right mind (hi mollie!) would have shot me N1, so if I'm responsible for the missing kill, it came at the hands of scum and Garruk Relentless are not aligned with them.

End of story. Move your vote.

thjats pretty sound.

[Tierce]

Mollie can't have shot you because I'm the vig damnit. Although I could have killed you if I wanted to! (nevar)

That was a joking reference to another ASoIaF game that ended rather bloodily and rather

red

and rather weddingy.

Gee, do I need to explain it every time I'm on playful-cryptic mode? >.>

[Tierce]

Tierce, I don't read tea leaves well. I strongly read you as town but I'm not going to sheep based on phantom untestable statements. Without knowing what it is, you could be interpreting what happened wrong. I'm not going to push you to claim whatever it was that happened and I'll factor in your confidence level but I cannot give much weight to what cannot be explained. Beyond your vouch, everything seems scummy to me about GR.

Pretend Garruk is a friendly neighbor and be done with it for gods sake.

What he said.

I know they targeted me on N1. They've made it obvious it was them, and we both know what was involved. And if I ate a kill that Night, I'm telling you that it is ridiculous for scum to do both things--so they can't be on the same team.

Which means that if you are taking me as Town, yes, you need to take me as vouching for them, because [this thing I am not disclosing as it is up to them and not up to myself] means they are not aligned with anyone who may have shot me.

And while we have some Town geniuses who thought vanillizing me was a great idea (yes

you

~), I don't think any vig on their right mind (hi mollie!) would have shot me N1, so if I'm responsible for the missing kill, it came at the hands of scum and Garruk Relentless are not aligned with them.

End of story. Move your vote.

thjats pretty sound.

Awesome. Your point being?

[kanyeknowsbest]

gosh you are in a mood missy.

[Titus]

I never thought vanillaizing you was a great idea unless someone was certain you were scum.

However, the fact Garruk targeted you with a neighborizing is pretty persuasive evidence. It's enough to give me cognitive dissonance regarding the vote. I don't trust PnJ, but I do trust you about what you claimed. That does make me doubt some of my reads however.

I'll unvote for the time being and regroup.

VOTE: unvote

[Garruk Relentless]

I'm not neighborized with Tierce. Think more interesting.

[Tierce]

gosh you are in a mood missy.

I'm not in a mood. That was a genuine question! What was your point?

[Messiah Complex]

Unvote
Vote: Goat on a Raft

just spit it out already jesus

Hey Nacho, why are you on a wagon with two scumreads? That's kinda weird given the conversation you just had with Kanye.

- Des

[kanyeknowsbest]

gosh you are in a mood missy.

I'm not in a mood. That was a genuine question! What was your point?

i was just commenting out loud. yiou may or may not recall i wanted him dead for several days and only backed off because of your promises he was town and also shinier things 2 lynch

[Titus]

Garruk, I'm not going to solve a cryptic puzzle tonight after drinking. I'll review this with a fresh set of eyes tomorrow and see where I want my vote. I doubt it's simple neighbors.

[Tierce]

gosh you are in a mood missy.

I'm not in a mood. That was a genuine question! What was your point?

i was just commenting out loud. yiou may or may not recall i wanted him dead for several days and only backed off because of your promises he was town and also shinier things 2 lynch

I don't. Link me to this?


Titus, it's not a neighborhood. PrideandJoy's point is that a "Friendly Neighbor" is a role that tells someone else that they are Town every Night. Like a one-sided Masonizer, no communication. It's not the case, but it was a combo of events (kill + something else) that would not make sense if both came from scum.

You don't need to decipher it; if I wanted people to decipher it, I would have claimed it. Just roll with it.

[Titus]

I'm rolling with it for now, but I'm uneasy with it. I don't like things I cannot know. I'll probably wind up moving to PnJ anyway as they are a separate scum read. However, if you are right, something about my process for labeling Garruk was scum, or he figured he could autoconfirm and therefore be completely anti-town. I don't know. I don't like internal dissonance.

[kanyeknowsbest]

gosh you are in a mood missy.

I'm not in a mood. That was a genuine question! What was your point?

i was just commenting out loud. yiou may or may not recall i wanted him dead for several days and only backed off because of your promises he was town and also shinier things 2 lynch

I don't. Link me to this?

anyone feel alright about a last minute swing onto garruk?

hello, all. i want to lynch garuck and terice and also maybe amrun a little someonje whos good @ finding scum and also town pls tell me what 2 do ty

im not especially mad @ the agar wagon.


hey tierce whats your stance on garrcuk?

i answered my own question

vote garruck

io think hes scum and btw i think the argument of "hes not scum cus he said im town" is dumb because thats what you when you are scum in that situation (especially this early in the game.) i was gut reading him all d1 as scum and his deadline dancing was ass (as bad as yours) and i really wish thor was alive now instead of him *ksises fingers and peace signs the sky,"much love 2 my boy rip"

oh yah also his play around amrun wagon.

and thjen i never mention this or him again 1nce i stopped scumreading you.

[Tierce]

and thjen i never mention this or him again

1nce i stopped scumreading you

.

When did that happen?

[kanyeknowsbest]

dont remember

[Tierce]

You're not helping me much here.

The thing is that you make an offhand commentary on something you didn't need to comment on. I'm trying to figure out your reasons to do so, because "making an agreeable sound" doesn't really sound like your kind of thing. You are voting someone else, I was defusing the parallel wagon, what did you care about it if you're not even trying to pull people into the wagon you're in? It felt more like noise than anything else, especially since you grill me for giving what you thought was poor reasons to be Townreading Garruk, I reply to you with cryptic business, and you never touch either of us again, just moving on to Zdenek without even acknowledging that your reads had changed.

[kanyeknowsbest]

just cus i wasnt talking about it in thread doesnt mean it wasnt something i was thinking about. considering the moves hes been making today, considering his alignment is freshly on my mind. it felt relevant to me so i commented on it. im not sure i understand why you think me making an offhand comment is something to scrutinize.

[Tierce]

I don't see why it wouldn't be something to scrutinize!

[ooba]

I agree with this sentiment, but with the lack of kills I don't see it being multiball.

I suppose there could be some third party types though?

Yes - maybe 4-1-1? But this rule:

Alignment were randomised, so whether your character is The Great Other, or Ned Stark you have the same chance of drawing any anti town role. A large part of the design process was done before alignments were even considered (So roles came first, then the alignments), so bear that in mind, too. That is not to say certain changes may not have been made afterwards.

Makes me think 3-3 or 4-2; Roll for three teams: Town, Chaos and Evil and then balance between teams. I guess Faraday could have had Evil as a self aligned third party and gone with 5-1 but I find the above more likely. Could you link to that offsite multi scum game with kill protection you were talking about earlier?

---

Tierce, your Garruk logic does not hold for two scum teams. I know there's no evidence for two scum teams right now but it feels right because it explains a lot of stuff:
- SpyreX pushing Zednek-me even when it was obvious he was going to be lynched
- SpyreX saying 'You know who you are'

I said I voted due to MC yesterday but also took a look at GR's scum games before voting:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=30705
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=31354
- Early play seems to involve never mentioning\interacting with scum buddies much
- Many throwaway statements about scum buddies like 'X is neutral', 'X is also probably scum'
- Never starts a wagon on scum buddy - but joins the wagon if needed; but still has the tendency to avoid lynching if necessary
ISO'd them this game - interaction with Quadz and the voting-unvoting-voting seem to fit this profile

@Alfred:

Have you taken a look at their meta?