A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Cephrir]

Push!Cephir

I'll have you know that Cephir is the fourth largest wagon comprised of me. in the case of you vs. Garuk, the obvious choice is to vote you. There, I believe that fully elucidates my preferences concerning the 4 major wagons at this time.

Cephir is as likely to be lynched as anyone else not named PnJ atm. (maybe, maybe, Alchemist has greater chances than others). He's the one I want right now. his townread on us turned "stale" (which is called an excuse to rationalize fomenting a scum read solely for inactivity). His focus today has been on 2/17 other people. And his delving into Quadz has yielded nothing of worth.

Yes, a scum read solely for inactivity, which explains why I built an at least mediocre case on you the other day when I initially added you to my suspect list.

Focusing on players is not scummy.

My delving for associative tells never divines anything of worth, but I do it anyway. Fact is, I'm so bad at scumhunting that me being right is probably a scumtell. That doesn't stop me from trying though.

[Tierce]

Tierce, your Garruk logic does not hold for two scum teams. I know there's no evidence for two scum teams right now but it feels right because it explains a lot of stuff:
- SpyreX pushing Zednek-me even when it was obvious he was going to be lynched
- SpyreX saying 'You know who you are'

And you will notice I invoked that possibility. However, I will not go after them for that ghost of a chance. As it is, we should be hunting Chaos, because even if there is another scumteam, we know that Chaos is likely to be lower in numbers. Eliminate those, and we're down a kill. And if there isn't another scumteam, well, we'd lynch Garruk and then wouldn't we all feel stupid about it when they flip Town.

Furthermore, the action they took still makes little sense if they are scum (without taking into account the missing kill), but that is information I have and am not sharing unless they want to do it.

And when SpyreX was about to be lynched, it made perfect sense for a solo scumteam player to push the possibility of multiball. All of that crap gets shelved as WIFOM and I won't be bothered about reading scum's posts when it was obvious they were getting lynched.

[Tammy]

I agree with this sentiment, but with the lack of kills I don't see it being multiball.

I suppose there could be some third party types though?

Yes - maybe 4-1-1? But this rule:

Alignment were randomised, so whether your character is The Great Other, or Ned Stark you have the same chance of drawing any anti town role. A large part of the design process was done before alignments were even considered (So roles came first, then the alignments), so bear that in mind, too. That is not to say certain changes may not have been made afterwards.

Makes me think 3-3 or 4-2; Roll for three teams: Town, Chaos and Evil and then balance between teams. I guess Faraday could have had Evil as a self aligned third party and gone with 5-1 but I find the above more likely. Could you link to that offsite multi scum game with kill protection you were talking about earlier?

That game is at a password protected site but I can copy/paste the relevant role pms when I get home from work later.

[Tierce]

ooba... what's the logic behind "Evil" as a faction name?

"Chaos" is obvious from Littlefinger's words, but "Evil"?

[ooba]

And even though flavor-wise, "Chaos" is a decent name for a generic scum team opposing the realm, my first thought when I saw "Chaos" was that there's another "Evil" scum team. [Lawful-Chaotic, Good-Evil]

The Evil bit from D&D and it seemed to fit as a scum team name. I can't link it to GoT as flavor-specific as Chaos but there were some evil characters in it. (like Roose bolton's bastard)

[Benmage]

Ooba......Why haven't you voted PnJ???

[PrideandJoy]

Ooba......Why haven't you voted PnJ???

why did you?

[PrideandJoy]

Push!Cephir

I'll have you know that Cephir is the fourth largest wagon comprised of me. in the case of you vs. Garuk, the obvious choice is to vote you. There, I believe that fully elucidates my preferences concerning the 4 major wagons at this time.

Cephir is as likely to be lynched as anyone else not named PnJ atm. (maybe, maybe, Alchemist has greater chances than others). He's the one I want right now. his townread on us turned "stale" (which is called an excuse to rationalize fomenting a scum read solely for inactivity). His focus today has been on 2/17 other people. And his delving into Quadz has yielded nothing of worth.

Yes, a scum read solely for inactivity, which explains why I built an at least mediocre case on you the other day when I initially added you to my suspect list.

Focusing on players is not scummy.

My delving for associative tells never divines anything of worth, but I do it anyway. Fact is, I'm so bad at scumhunting that me being right is probably a scumtell. That doesn't stop me from trying though.

So your cases are mediocre and you are bad at using associative tells. In that case what gave you the nerve to shout that several of our exchanges with Quadz were demonstrative of a bus. 3 times in I row you quoted a post and then posted "bus.jpg". Not once did you say why you thought that those specific posts were indicative of a bus.

focusing on 2/17 players and calling it scum hunting is scummy. Especially when GR is town re: recent discussions make clear(er).

[PrideandJoy]

Ooba......Why haven't you voted PnJ???

why did you?

Kayne can go ahead and answer as well.

And I'd be interested to hear if and when Goat becomes less apathetic.

[Benmage]

Ooba......Why haven't you voted PnJ???

why did you?

You read scummy to me... and PoE.

[Benmage]

Plus lynch plausibility.

[PrideandJoy]

You read scummy to me

quote relevant posts.

You've had 3 days prior to come out and say something similar. The only thing I remember you doing was merely dismissing anything we ever said.

[Benmage]

You read scummy to me

quote relevant posts.

You've had 3 days prior to come out and say something similar. The only thing I remember you doing was merely dismissing anything we ever said.

CLick your iso... its in there.

WHats your read on me?

[Benmage]

The only thing I remember you doing was merely dismissing anything we ever said.

Hmmmm... Can you quote this?

[Cephrir]

Push!Cephir

I'll have you know that Cephir is the fourth largest wagon comprised of me. in the case of you vs. Garuk, the obvious choice is to vote you. There, I believe that fully elucidates my preferences concerning the 4 major wagons at this time.

Cephir is as likely to be lynched as anyone else not named PnJ atm. (maybe, maybe, Alchemist has greater chances than others). He's the one I want right now. his townread on us turned "stale" (which is called an excuse to rationalize fomenting a scum read solely for inactivity). His focus today has been on 2/17 other people. And his delving into Quadz has yielded nothing of worth.

Yes, a scum read solely for inactivity, which explains why I built an at least mediocre case on you the other day when I initially added you to my suspect list.

Focusing on players is not scummy.

My delving for associative tells never divines anything of worth, but I do it anyway. Fact is, I'm so bad at scumhunting that me being right is probably a scumtell. That doesn't stop me from trying though.

So your cases are mediocre and you are bad at using associative tells. In that case what gave you the nerve to shout that several of our exchanges with Quadz were demonstrative of a bus. 3 times in I row you quoted a post and then posted "bus.jpg". Not once did you say why you thought that those specific posts were indicative of a bus.

focusing on 2/17 players and calling it scum hunting is scummy. Especially when GR is town re: recent discussions make clear(er).

It's called trying. Also, I read them. Surely you too can read your own posts.

Even if GR is town I don't see how this is true.

I'm too tired to have this argument.

[SafetyDance]

Yeah, I had been away for 5+ days due to an emergency So I hadn't read at some points. I didn't know how that happened but I figured I didn't have the time to catch up.

If his ability only works when I triggered mine, they are linked.

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff here. I'm not denying that. Yet, you too are selectively reading and deflecting. The game doesn't center on me.

Who's said that? The basis of that is where...?

How can I be selectively reading when you've just admitted to not paying attention to anything but bits n pieces? What am I trying to deflect from? No shit the game doesn't center around you, but

you're

SELECTIVELY responding to just the parts that talk about you. Good job.

If you ask me it is!

Yes, re-direct the town to Quadz when only Kanye was pushing it and there was a counter-wagon growing on TA?

I meant if someone other than AGar had a contradicting explanation... hence why I voted Titus...

But you never mentioned Agar or anyone else, you didn't say "if someone

else

really...." you made no mention, nothing in previous posts either. Why omit something so important like that?

What?

No, really, what?

None of that points to apathy and I'll have to ask you why you're selectively reading shit.

The first one refers to Shadoweh abandoning me on Spyrex and not listening to me that I thought he was scum (and noone else but empire actually paying attention to my read on him), as well as a few other things I've said that have just been dismissed. It has nothing to do with apathy.

The second bolded also has nothing to do with apathy, it has to do with busy. I did not have free time to play mafia because I was busy working quite a few more than normal hours.

Firstly, why are you responding with Titus' words?

Secondly, you made no mention of Shadoweh, you said you felt invisible this

game

. That's a generalised comment on a gamestate, not about one individual. If you're feeling invisible and then state you are busy (whatever the reason) then don't you think that's your answer right there?

And yes there is apathy. Day starts and a whole load of poeple go v/la, cephrir complains about his vote not meaning much, you come out with your I'm invisible claim, that's apathy to me.

It

is

interesting because activity slowed, and activity

has

played a big part in this game since I was nearly lynched for it day 1 and Amrun

was

lynched for it.

[SafetyDance]

Regarding Garruk: I've been there with these crazy theories. I agree it's bad but I just don't see it coming from scum.

That's dismissing it for no good reason, a shit theory - oh must be town! Get scum lynched - must be a bus! There is no town logic or thought process to their play today. People are giving them a free ride, just like Alkie.

Regarding Shadow: By "Shadoweh softclaiming having a shadow" - do you mean the man she soft claimed she need to complete her kill? I view that as neutral. Not sure what you're referring to when you connect it to the last two scum flips?

You mentioned coincidences in regards to the last two scum:

Also I just thought of something while writing this -

SpyreX's playstyle includes "hammer time" and he gets a role that needs a hammer to power up? Coincidence much?

"It's not like SD is a reliable narrator or that scum would say yeah I rbed quadz." -> SD has clarified his actions. Scum RBing Quadz the same night is too coincidental and unlikely.

- He's claimed cop - who's claimed RB on N3 and that it's remarkably coincidental that SD tracked him that night (and there was what happened today). I actually like Quadz for two reasons after the claim

5% chance of both of you being town

- I'm just not feeling this - feels like this would require too many coincidences -

So who is this soft-claiming to be?

If you die overnight it won't be because of Tierce.
It'll be because the night is dark and full of terrors.

[PrideandJoy]

I love how comically bad chesskid is.

Take over 40% of the remaining players in a game with zero flipped scum... and say there's scum there.

NO SHIT SHERLOCK.

LOOK I've narrowed the entire scum team into this pool:
Alfred Borden (Empire/Llamarble)
Andrius AGar
Benmage
Cephrir
elleheathen
Garuk Relentless (Natarisha/MafiaSSK)
Goat on a Raft (Channeldelibird/AurorusVox)
kanyeknowsbest
Messiah Complex (Desperado/Formerfish)
Nautilius (Nacho/Ellibereth)
ooba
PeaceBringer, displaced Spyrex
Prideandjoy(chesskid3/ActionDan)
quadz08
SafetyDance
Shadoweh
StupendousMan
The Alchemist
Tammy
Tierce
Zdenek

I don't remember Benmage playing particularly towny.

I'm just reminded of the wire.

(the notion of lynching people based off a miller claim I find repulsive)

Good thing noone here did that.

thatdoesn'tmakeanysensescumtypicallywanttoachievemislynches

Negging?

PJ is making no sense. Elle lynch makes no sense. Hmmm.

aka benmage needlessly being oppositional.

pretty sure I made sense. if I didn't explain how I didn't

your right I'm pretty sure achieveing a mislynch was good enough for the scum voting him

That ^ didn't make sense as a response to:

(the notion of lynching people based off a miller claim I find repulsive)

Good thing noone here did that.

Do you want to tell me next that 1+1 = 2?


How was I oppositional?

CHess is wrong.

My statement about chess is still true. That said, dan your blank statement is incorrect about busing as whole... If you want to say it doesn't apply to this scenario be free.

Especially when you consider you've previously taken shots at quadz for being scum, but never really put your $ where your mouth is.

Its scum 1-0-1 strategy to call their teammates scum, yet vote a different scum read. Cahlasssic.

These I consider all examples of butting heads with me. None are particularly associated with finding alignment. As for my read on you, I was about to say scum, but looking over your iso I realize you are all over the place and I wonder if scum would have the energy and competence to keep so many disparate interests straight. So consider it less certain. However now more than ever you should face increased scrutiny. And today you've been sitting back

[SafetyDance]

why? things are going pretty dang well for town?

That's how I viewed it. Despite the "wellness", day started out like a grind.

SafetyDance- He was basically sheeping MC, if i recall correctly.

Learn2ReadTheThread™.

Like preferably all of it. Would have assumed you were reading it since the start...

why are you terrified of 3 votes?

Same M.O as yesterday. Got really nervy pre-quadz being run up, then came out today pretending to be chill. Now back to ultra-defensiveness. I did mention this.

Also, the entire game state just doesn't feel like one big scum team anymore - far too many town reads and unless all rest Chaos scum are in {elle, TheAlch, PnJ, AGar, GR} (and even that seems unlikely given voting patterns) - I just can't see it. Let me take a look at VCs again.

I agree with this sentiment, but with the lack of kills I don't see it being multiball.

I suppose there could be some third party types though?

Just a 6-player Chaos team seems just as unlikely as GRRM finishing Winds by Xmas '14. There's bound to be 3rd party. Last time it was just a Lyncher.

I said I voted due to MC yesterday but also took a look at GR's scum games before voting:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=30705
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=31354
- Early play seems to involve never mentioning\interacting with scum buddies much
- Many throwaway statements about scum buddies like 'X is neutral', 'X is also probably scum'
- Never starts a wagon on scum buddy - but joins the wagon if needed; but still has the tendency to avoid lynching if necessary
ISO'd them this game - interaction with Quadz and the voting-unvoting-voting seem to fit this profile

@Alfred:

Have you taken a look at their meta?

We have no evidence, whatsoever that there's 2 scum teams except that people keep bringing it up.

VOTE: The Alchemist

I'm not giving up a scum read, just because of what someone else is being cryptic about. We have had this conversation before anyway. If GR isn't being lynched can we get Sryrana who's posting today has done even less than before if that is even possible. I really don't want to try and deal with the clusterfuck that is sorting out who's scummier out of Agar/PnJ/Elle/Titus/Goat

[SafetyDance]

Dan if Benmage is sitting back, what's TA doing?

[Titus]

VOTE: PrideandJoy

I respond to more than what is said about me.

SD, you should be trying to figure out the game. Voting TA to avoid doing that is bad.

That should be L minus 1.

[Titus]

PnJ, that's a wall of conclusory bullshit. We all scumhunt differently. I see someone scumhunting.

[Titus]

*cough*
I doubt Titus has any idea what happened. Tierce, you asked for a gift from the gods, who do you think answered you? Divine will can't be stopped by mere mortal things like 'roleblocks' and 'redirecting scum'. The scum however, don't appear to have killed anyone unless they also really liked killing Katsuki.

Asking for a gift from the gods is MY role. Hence why I thought our roles were linked.

[Titus]

*cough*
I doubt Titus has any idea what happened. Tierce, you asked for a gift from the gods, who do you think answered you? Divine will can't be stopped by mere mortal things like 'roleblocks' and 'redirecting scum'. The scum however, don't appear to have killed anyone unless they also really liked killing Katsuki.

Asking for a gift from the gods is MY role. Hence why I thought our roles were linked.

[ooba]

@Mage:
At the start of D5, I would have been all over PnJ - but just don't feel it now

@SD
Ah - but both coincidences I pointed out were role based actions that they claimed.
Shadoweh needing another person doesn't require any coincidence.

VOTE: The Alchemist

We agree on something!

Vote: The Alchemist