NY 167: COMPLETELY NORMAL Mafia (GAME OVER)

[MC Maraca]

Cops dont act scummy.

Bullshit. Cops get mislynched. Their role doesn't magically make them immune to being mislynched. Especially on day one where they're effectively vanilla since, you know, no results.

[Angry Frat BROs]

Oh my god.

I can't even.

Holy fucking shit what is this.

Does opening this thread cause people to be dumb, or is this game just full of dumb people?

[MC Maraca]

Not sakura, her slot has gotten better over time methinks.

I'd like to revoke this sentence.

[sangres]

UNVOTE

We've got more to post.

Don't fucking hammer before we're finish.

[Sakura Hana]

Cops dont act scummy.

This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen

Cool that was one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen too.

[MC Maraca]

UNVOTE

We've got more to post.

Don't fucking hammer before we're finish.

You. You of all people should fucking get why leashing is ideal regardless of orcinus's alignment. The fact that you don't is making my prior town as fuck read cry. This isn't the same ffery I faked a cop innocent on in paradox.

[MC Maraca]

Cops dont act scummy.

This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen

Cool that was one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sakura

[likeabauss]

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

The logic here doesn't work. He can clear scum buddies, along with actually townies. If he goes three nights without lynch, we can't be sure if he cleared actual townies or conftown'd scum buddies. I'm sure you understand this.

Leashing an SK comes with proven documented validity. The people die, their roles are revealed. Our only hope of validating Orcinus's claims is by a real cop verifying ALL OF THEM.

[goodmorning]

well that was some downtime

Votecount 1.63

orcinus_theoriginal [L-2] - likeabauss, Hermy, RadiantCowbells, MVP, yessiree, Guyett, Sakura Hana

caledfwitch [L-5] - Cephrir, orcinus_theoriginal, Angry Frat BROs, Toomai

Guyett [L-7] - caledfwitch, PeregrineV

likeabauss [L-8] - JacobSavage

Sakura Hana [L-8] - MC Maraca

Not Voting [2] - TheIrishPope, sangres

With 17 alive, it takes

9

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2013-11-21 09:39:00)

Deadline has been extended for 24 hours due to the downtime. This is reflected in the present and all future votecounts. I will not be changing the past votecounts to reflect the new deadline.

[Cephrir]

And even if orcinus is scum (which I highly highly doubt). You fucking leash the cop claim. It's just like leashing a SK. Force them to clear people. To survive the long run, theoretical orcinus-scum has to get town results on town players; or fuck himself over and get lynched instantly when he declares a scum result in a 1v1 with the target.

The logic here doesn't work. He can clear scum buddies, along with actually townies. If he goes three nights without lynch, we can't be sure if he cleared actual townies or conftown'd scum buddies. I'm sure you understand this.

Leashing an SK comes with proven documented validity. The people die, their roles are revealed. Our only hope of validating Orcinus's claims is by a real cop verifying ALL OF THEM.

This post is made under the assumption that orcinus is mafia, and therefore has nothing to do with anything.

[sangres]

UNVOTE

We've got more to post.

Don't fucking hammer before we're finish.

You. You of all people should fucking get why leashing is ideal regardless of orcinus's alignment. The fact that you don't is making my prior town as fuck read cry. This isn't the same ffery I faked a cop innocent on in paradox.

This isn't day 3, and for damn sure isn't a player I'm even vaguely town-reading.

I was trying to answer this when the site went down last night.

How do you determine whether you're playing follow the cop with a scum "cop"? Your scenarios were all predicated on counter-claims.

[Cephrir]

Simple- you lynch it on Day 4. IN the interim, you don't follow the cop.

[sangres]

^^ NOT an invitation for a counterclaim, btw.

I

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Sakura Hana [L-8] - MC Maraca

are you serenading my soul

VOTE: sakura

[likeabauss]

Bauss, if you had to declare a 4th and 5th scumread, who would those be?

I'll post a reads list, given that the day is almost done and I think it's important for town to be able to evaluate post flip.

Scum list (all described earlier):
FratBros
Orcinus
MCMaraca

Leaning scum:
Cephrir (described this earlier)

I'll go out on a limb and continue to be suspicious of:
TIP (I literally can't sort him)
Sangres (I've been horribly wrong about both of these players in the past)

Null:
Sakura
Toomai
Hermy
JacobSavage

Town:
Yessiree
RC
Peregrine
MVP
caledwitch
Guyett

[Cephrir]

Surely you must realize that's pretty much a list of who is and who is not sheeping you

[Cephrir]

I'd like to hear why you suspect me aside from "he's not sheeping me".

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Sakura

[sangres]

why is he scum again

Being Hypocritical and selectively scumhunting.

and this is scum more likely than just bad town because?

i mean sometimes stupid townies feel the need to pounce on retarded things that are really widespread

guyett doesn't look too experienced

As orc opens up the game, he distinguishes very clearly between bad town and scum. Yet we feel all of his later attacks have had an overarching theme of "bad, so scum". Orc does have these tendencies as scum, but as town, he's usually better at distinguishing them from his normal rage, and usually backs down a bit from them.

I never left. The guy you replaced, Rank, is my brother from another mother. We've been playing mafia together for like 10 years. Him replacing out means he was scum. Means you are scum. You should tread carefully, because between you and FratBoys, I've got two mafia and its still early on D1

So you're misreading someone you've played with for 10 years



Retardedness or scum?

We didn't like this post because we felt this is the type of response that orc wouldn't let go easily. As town, he would dog the hell out of bauss because a meta read like this isn't something that you pass over with a one-shot response when you're in a town slot. When someone calls a meta read like this when you're in a town slot, you let the thunder loose because they're being an absolute idiot fucking up reading the one person they're supposed to have a handle over, or they're making an attempt to mislynch a slot of someone with meta authority that they

had

but didn't want to pull because they would peg them immediately if they tried to pull something like that and you bring down holy hellfire down in response. The fact that orc let this slide showed that he was more interested in burying it because he felt he would be able to discredit bauss/push things off with a strong power role claim.

Guyett is a stupidly easy lynch and I've decided that I dislike it.

Can you believe orc ever said something like this? We can't, considering the rest of his pushes (with the sole exception of bauss whose push is essentially a delayed OMGUS attempt).

pressure votes don't work if you say that it's a pressure vote so there is actually no reason for 901

899 is just parroting what i just said in the hopes of getting towncred for ocntributing

841 is a load of fence and i think your ass should be hurting by now

First attack is an attack for not having optimal scumhunting strategies which is dumb.
And the fencesitting comment was attacking Sakura for what was a little too transparent (inb4fencesitting) bit which is one of the easiest things to attack that I've ever seen. It's essentially taking an attack that was given to him even though it's not the type of thing that scum generally do.

you told us before that you lied about reads to pull gambits

why then didn't you lie about your read on me

There's a lot wrong with this statement. "I lied once for a gambit" doesn't mean that "I lie when I don't know what to do" and the whole reason that fencesitting is a scumtell is because it's either A) leaving options open so she can push mislynches or defend him later, or B) too bad at scum to fake reads. Telling her to fake reads defeats the purpose of the fencesitting scumtell. There's also the possibility that this was a sarcastic statement, but that's just discrediting setting up for a later push.

Are you caught up?

Sakura is keeping her cards a lot closer than she used to. Nacho will probably have a stronger opinion than I do, but I liked her push on you, and I like that she called bauss out for not going after his strongest read.

you are talking to me

so i'm assuming you disagree with sakura's push?

and for the love of god I CALLED BAUSS OUT for that and she parroted


fuck this game

He acted like Sakura sheeping his point (admittedly his best point) was some revolutionary shit that was actually worthy of some significant complaint, but it really wasn't :/. It wasn't like Bauss was an easy target, and it wasn't like there was any need for her to push that point in a significant way.

Ok so why should be considering policy lynching RC when you've supposedly caught scum?

i really hope you don't breed.

because i and everyone else can always be wrong about our reads and because some people have disagreed with my read on you

by your desperation on discrediting me i assume that i am not, however, wrong this time.

I don't understand how this is discrediting at all, actually. Wondering why you would go for the RC policy lynch over the strong scumread was a valid question!

1) selective quoting
2) opportunistic testing waters
3) deliberately obtuse

1) The selective quoting is usually for reading pleasure as opposed to anything else. The words that she left out had absolutely nothing to do with her point of "why wasn't this your original response".
2) Opportunistic testing waters was bullshit, assuming that it refers to your earlier fencesitting bit.
3) Deliberately obtuse is the worst reasoning for anything ever, and is scum's favorite reason in order to attack someone whose logic they think they can beat.

the thing is i once downplayed a player for being too stupid once to be scum

she flipped scum

mara in our first game together

NEVER AGAIN

Is this supposed to cover up all of his "this is bad" attacks instead of "this is scummy attacks" that you've dropped on the thread? I can see freaking out over things that are exceptionally bad, but you're attacking things that are sort of scummy and weaving them into horrible, horrible things.

you know what i'm not even going to bother with this game anymore

it's tough for me to care about a game as town these days

and when i put in the effort and get flashwagoned for no fucking reason

i give up

you guys earn a big fat finger up your collective asses.

This was scummy because it was so premature; orc is stubborn as hell and when he latches onto something, it takes a hell of a lot more than a bad wagon on him in order to force him to shit down completely.

Toomai and JS but let's be honest I really don't care.

There is no case on me and I'm getting scumread for freaking out when I really don't want to be lynched

These two quotes don't make sense together, and they are only a few pieces apart. Orc knows that he has two motivations: motivation as cop to survive, and motivation as townorc the player to impart some sanity to the thread before he dies. As town, the motivation overwhelming both of those is to find scum and make them die or set them up to die. The fact that motivation for him as townorc and him with a town wincondition disappears but the cop motivation remains is a sign of scumvenience and nothing else.

#138 and #139 are both the start of the broad strokes analysis we were hoping for, but neither of them scratches the surface of "unfakeable" or even "townleaning". The centerpiece of all the analysis he's given this game is his push on Sakura which is a case that consists of "she's bad" and is more contentless than the case that's been put forth against him in thread so far.

#171, he complains about no one reaching out to him. We try to reach out to him, he spits back out the same piss poor content he had been providing all game. His transition to bauss from bad town to scum has no good trajectory in his ISO; instead, it looks like his read tranferred from bad town to scum when he realized when discrediting wasn't going to work.

I mean there are so many reasons why bauss is scum. The only reason why it took me so long to reach that read was because I was giving him a pass based on past meta failure.

I just hope that he'll stop being so cock-ass sure of himself after he lynches a fucking cop. But I doubt it.

First bit doesn't even make sense with the second bit; it sounds like he's convinced he's scum, but the second bit clearly assumes bauss town (otherwise lynching a cop wouldn't be humbling).

The "lynchers" comment was horrible and I shouldn't even have to get into why.

[Cephrir]

@bauss again: You expect everyone else to unconditionally accept your Rank meta (without backing it up I might add) but you aren't willing to accept anyone else's meta on me, apparently?

Not that the latter is being pushed as strongly but it has been brought up.

Also, sangres can be town again and I believe in their case but I dunno if I'm willing to budge mostly on principle.

[sangres]

Simple- you lynch it on Day 4. IN the interim, you don't follow the cop.

And if he flips scum then on day 5 you have 3 players who have been enveloped in a fog of wifom.

We wouldn't be having this conversation if orcinus were playing the game like he's town. Let's say that being a cop screwed up all his normal reactions. The reactions, especially the reactions since claiming, should be screaming outraged PR. They're not.

It's not a perfect comparison for a lot of reasons, including his replace-in, but here's a game where orcinus was town rolecop: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=26883. Day 1 he played a strong game. Day 2 he intentionally scummed up his play a little to avoid being the N2 kill. Compare town-orcinus trying to look a little scummy to this game.

[sangres]

I'll go out on a limb and continue to be suspicious of:
TIP (I literally can't sort him)
Sangres (I've been horribly wrong about both of these players in the past)

[Cephrir]

My solution would be to pretend his results don't even exist until/unless he flips town. Obviously it's difficult to ignore that WIFOM if it arises, but cost-benefit analysis.

[Hermy]

The last ten or so pages make me feel nauseous. We've got to hurry up and lynch the scum that is Orcinus. The deadline is approaching. If the Caled lynch goes through and she flips town then I'm going to 'I told you so' every single person on the wagon. A lot.

[MVP]

MVP, why are you voting Orc?

I'll summarize it to one sentence.
Post-claim actions.