Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[ICEninja]

Just saw claim, don't have time to read through stuff for an hour or two but just in case:

Unvote fitz

that claim is about as conformable as a claim gets so it would be flat out stupid for scum to claim that.

[Garmr]

With Fitz town The silver bard and Tvk drop down to scum due to there recent behavior revolving around the wagons. I will put eek in town due to the effort his putting in where scum would of just jumped onto fitz. Talking about fitz expect a 5 post rant or so from the dead thread about him being a bad vig as he'll probably shoot me tonight.

Anyway where to place my vote.

In post 778, Street Hassle wrote:
Unvote

This is very confusing.

If fitz is town and Eek is scum, what was the impetus for the garmr wagon? Why not just pile onto fitz?

Same problem in reverse with fitz scum and eek town. Why start a garmr wagon with the Eek wagon almost there?


Can't you conclude from this that Garmr has to be scum and Fitz and Eek are probably both town?

Lol why would I have to be scum in this scenario in any of these scenarios we don't know anyone's roles (If your town like me) we won't see interactions until we get a couple of flips. This seems to me scum logic in trying to push a mislynch

TvK

———✹

You haven't contributed as much as others. Why?

———✹

What is your read of me? You've neglected to do so, even in your read post (280).

———✹

Currently, is Havingfitz leaning more Town or Scum in your opinion?

1. That's my way of playing the game. I'm not the guy that will start a huge case on someone on page 4 or that starts tunnelling people the moment they seem a little scummy. I do think that the things I say are useful and clear.

2. You're complete null to me. You provide a lot of information from tons of questions. Now I just want you to use this information to also actively do something.

3. He's leaning scum, but Garmr and Bard are my biggest scumreads. I already said why I didn't like him and my opinion hasn't changed because of the fact that we are both on the Garmr wagon.

It's funny how I am a scum read to him while bard and fitz are a scum read to him at the same time I wouldn't mesh with any of these as a scum team he didn't think this one through.

anyone else starting to feel ICEninja as scum

Once again he just pops in when someone mentions that he hasn't been posting in a while. I'd love to go after this guy somewhere in day 2.

Why not go for him now?

VOTE: TVK

[ICEninja]

That's retarded, the phone at my post. I'll make it again when I get home.

[Regfan]

I'm actually heading out for the night. Street, can we reschedule for when I get back (9-10 hours)? If not then just a list of your reads and thoughts will suffice and I'll let you know where I'm not in agreement at all (I'm mainly having difficulty working out who I'm misreading).

Also people need to start moving their votes to lynches that are actually plausible (Hint: TSB!) since deadlines coming up.

[Regfan]

I decided to stop being lazy and read the Kid A meta since I'm struggling to work out who's likely scum other than TSB. I read the three linked town games in Post 657 and I kind of agree. There's a bit of a different tone in his pushes as well for instance his post here, here, here and here in comparison to his play in this game for instance his Post 453. I still need to read his scum game even if it is ages ago and a newbie but don't have time for that now*. Also reading his ISO I really really hated his Post 770 since it looks like an attempt to see if he can gain traction on a lynch since Fitz's claim makes him town and Milkeds case is obvtown. So yeah, there's a chance I might actually be wrong on him but I still want TSB today.

Anyway cars around in about 5-10 minutes to pick me up.

[My Milked Eek]

Don't have a lot of time again (we're approaching release week) today. I tried posting yesterday but the site was down a couple of times.
I should get a get post in tonight if I can make it before the deadline. (perhaps expand the deadline a bit because of the downtime yesterday?

mod?

, just a few hours would be cool)

Short notes:
- I like fitz' claim
- I like how Kid A pops up after I call him out on lurking (and just barely dodges a prod)
- @Wake: read the thread, if you're going to throw out that it's in the interest of the town to answer your questions, then I'm not sure what you think of anyone who hasn't read the thread. Non-entity might have been a bit harsh, but I even get the assumption that you don't even read the votecounts of the pages your question lists are posted on. You do know the deadline is tonight right? We've had two claims over the span of 10 pages (give or take a few) and you still haven't caught up to the first? But sure, make wordy posts that can be condensed to a line or two and keep asking questions.
- I like this conclusion from TvK, but I can't get to garmscum solely based on the alignment of fitz and me. I can get to TvKscum based on my alignment and garm's (scum fyi).

I might pop back during lunch, but don't count on it.

[My Milked Eek]

I forgot my ICE disclaimer:

I can get to TvKscum based on my alignment (ICE disclaimer: town) and garm's (scum fyi).

[Garmr]

I forgot my ICE disclaimer:

I can get to TvKscum based on my alignment (ICE disclaimer:

probably town

) and garm's (

town

fyi).

Fixed

[TvK]

With Fitz town The silver bard and Tvk drop down to scum due to there recent behavior revolving around the wagons. I will put eek in town due to the effort his putting in where scum would of just jumped onto fitz. Talking about fitz expect a 5 post rant or so from the dead thread about him being a bad vig as he'll probably shoot me tonight.

Soo, TSB and I drop down to scum because we were the ones not on the Fitz wagon? That one that turns out to be town?

Anyway where to place my vote.

In post 778, Street Hassle wrote:
Unvote

This is very confusing.

If fitz is town and Eek is scum, what was the impetus for the garmr wagon? Why not just pile onto fitz?

Same problem in reverse with fitz scum and eek town. Why start a garmr wagon with the Eek wagon almost there?


Can't you conclude from this that Garmr has to be scum and Fitz and Eek are probably both town?

Lol why would I have to be scum in this scenario in any of these scenarios we don't know anyone's roles (If your town like me) we won't see interactions until we get a couple of flips. This seems to me scum logic in trying to push a mislynch

Street says himself that he doesn't think Eek is scum. You say that yourself too. So the only two options left would be that either both Fitz and Eek are town and you are scum, or that all three of you are town. And I'm willing to take my chances betting on the first option.

TvK

———✹

You haven't contributed as much as others. Why?

———✹

What is your read of me? You've neglected to do so, even in your read post (280).

———✹

Currently, is Havingfitz leaning more Town or Scum in your opinion?

1. That's my way of playing the game. I'm not the guy that will start a huge case on someone on page 4 or that starts tunnelling people the moment they seem a little scummy. I do think that the things I say are useful and clear.

2. You're complete null to me. You provide a lot of information from tons of questions. Now I just want you to use this information to also actively do something.

3. He's leaning scum, but Garmr and Bard are my biggest scumreads. I already said why I didn't like him and my opinion hasn't changed because of the fact that we are both on the Garmr wagon.

It's funny how I am a scum read to him while bard and fitz are a scum read to him at the same time I wouldn't mesh with any of these as a scum team he didn't think this one through.

So now I suddenly do have to think about interactions? I thought we couldn't do that without a couple of flips?

anyone else starting to feel ICEninja as scum

Once again he just pops in when someone mentions that he hasn't been posting in a while. I'd love to go after this guy somewhere in day 2.

Why not go for him now?

Because he had 1 vote when I said this and you had 4. So you're my lynch for today and I'll look into Kid A tomorrow.

VOTE: TVK

[Regfan]

I'm back early, I'll be around the thread casually reading things, if you get on and are able to discuss things for about 20-30 minutes Empire then let me know (There's a chance I might be dragged out for some drinks but I'll try and monitor this on my phone if I do).

[Garmr]

With Fitz town The silver bard and Tvk drop down to scum due to there recent behavior revolving around the wagons. I will put eek in town due to the effort his putting in where scum would of just jumped onto fitz. Talking about fitz expect a 5 post rant or so from the dead thread about him being a bad vig as he'll probably shoot me tonight.

Soo, TSB and I drop down to scum because we were the ones not on the Fitz wagon? That one that turns out to be town?

Lets view it from my view. I know i'm town if fitz was lynched with out role claiming per say and he flipped that role I would of probably of been lynched day 2. Wouldn't it look good for scum day 1 to be on my wagon instead of the mislynch one from day 1 that way they could push my wagon day 2 with out looking suspicious.

Anyway where to place my vote.

In post 778, Street Hassle wrote:
Unvote

This is very confusing.

If fitz is town and Eek is scum, what was the impetus for the garmr wagon? Why not just pile onto fitz?

Same problem in reverse with fitz scum and eek town. Why start a garmr wagon with the Eek wagon almost there?


Can't you conclude from this that Garmr has to be scum and Fitz and Eek are probably both town?

Lol why would I have to be scum in this scenario in any of these scenarios we don't know anyone's roles (If your town like me) we won't see interactions until we get a couple of flips. This seems to me scum logic in trying to push a mislynch

Street says himself that he doesn't think Eek is scum. You say that yourself too. So the only two options left would be that either both Fitz and Eek are town and you are scum, or that all three of you are town. And I'm willing to take my chances betting on the first option.

I know I am town and I'm betting their not scum

.

TvK

———✹

You haven't contributed as much as others. Why?

———✹

What is your read of me? You've neglected to do so, even in your read post (280).

———✹

Currently, is Havingfitz leaning more Town or Scum in your opinion?

1. That's my way of playing the game. I'm not the guy that will start a huge case on someone on page 4 or that starts tunnelling people the moment they seem a little scummy. I do think that the things I say are useful and clear.

2. You're complete null to me. You provide a lot of information from tons of questions. Now I just want you to use this information to also actively do something.

3. He's leaning scum, but Garmr and Bard are my biggest scumreads. I already said why I didn't like him and my opinion hasn't changed because of the fact that we are both on the Garmr wagon.

It's funny how I am a scum read to him while bard and fitz are a scum read to him at the same time I wouldn't mesh with any of these as a scum team he didn't think this one through.

So now I suddenly do have to think about interactions? I thought we couldn't do that without a couple of flips?

Like how you didn't address the point and used something I said earlier to skip it I will agree I should of been more clear through We won't know for certain until after a few flips but we can assume and I am assuming all 3 are town but your pushing that I am scum for certain which I know is utterly wrong.

anyone else starting to feel ICEninja as scum

Once again he just pops in when someone mentions that he hasn't been posting in a while. I'd love to go after this guy somewhere in day 2.

Why not go for him now?

Because he had 1 vote when I said this and you had 4. So you're my lynch for today and I'll look into Kid A tomorrow.

Yeh that's pretty convenient for you isn't it.

VOTE: TVK

My answers in purple but here's a question for you.

Caught up again. I still don't like Garmr, but I also don't think we can avoid an Eek lynch. Will post more detailed stuff later.

You didn't think we could avoid a eek lynch and you didn't like me. Your vote was on Orestes/Bard yet at that time it seemed you were way more concerned with us two than bard. Why didn't you place your vote on me then which would of been a key point for a genuine town player and instead wait before others started pushing me to place your vote at a opportunistic moment.

Assumed Scenario

This what I'm thinking 3-town folks are arguing against themselves. Eek and the village idiot on one side and the other side moi.
votes are heavily on Eek and VI side each side believes the other is scum till fitz claims. Then side two (me) realizes that both sides are town and scum is setting up for a couple of mislynches. Scum has been caught out now and trying to collect the chips and push a mislynch on me.

From the vote jumping between the 3 town wagons we can see who was pushing for the mislynch TvK and Silver bard. TvK has at one time had all 3 of the town wagons as a suspect at some stage and each other.

The runaway winner for most points awarded is Herself, and all of those are scumpoints. So she/he/it is basicly my biggest scumread.
My number two scumread is Squirrel Girl.

Number 3 is TvK

.

I don't feel comfortable with calling Wake town after 19 pages of silence and then a couple of decent posts. Also, Bard, how are your scumpoints calculated? Do you immediatly call the person with the most scumpoints your top scumread? Is the total amount of scumpoints relative to factors like total number of posts? And do lurkers get just as many scumpoints as posters? If so, where does for example Quadraxis/Wake, who had exactly 1 post before you posted, rank?

Didn't see this one earlier. I don't have a system that awards 2 scumpoint for this and 5 for this. All I do is I write down posts I find scummy or townie in a excellsheet. You can say a "scumpoint" is a post I find scummy, a "townpoint" is a post I find townie. People who posts little don't get in my spreadsheet. I hate lurkers though, because they can't be read, it is a poor strategy and joining a game and not posting should be a bannable offence (at least if it happends alot).

the tone in this doesn't seem to be right. They suspect each other but TvK ignores the fact he didn't list any reasons. Just asked how he graded not what he graded them on.

They have their little scuffle post
In order of time line533,538,563,607
After all that still no vote still no real push on each other. This is orchestrated.

Now this is a big scum move by TSB

I am on board with My Milked Eek lynch. Mainly because the read list on 530 is full of nullreads and his reasoning isn't good. Also 7 posts the entire game gives me a "scum struggling finding anything to post"-feel.

Also I think there is an interesting link between MME and havingfitz, so figuring out MME might help figuring out havingfitz.

Unvote

VOTE: My Milked Eek

Lol so you're whole reason for voting Eek is to gain info on fitz. Didn't you read herself as scum and fitz as town. If you think fitz is town why would you even vote milked because of some link. Actually weren't you just saying before Eek isn't where you would place a vote as there were better targets

Oh coincidence TvK seems to have accepted the eek lynch when two of his scum reads are on it I am willing to bet was setting himself up hammer once it got to l-1.

Seems to me scum wants to push a mislynch.


Now get a load of this

I agree with every bolded statement in Eek's #679. Especially the one about the meta. When Garmr mentioned his scumgame (can't remember the exact #), I read the game and I must say, his playstyle has a lot in common with what he's doing here. I'm also not impressed at all by his response to Eek big post, especially because he seems so confident that he really "debunked" it. Guess it's time to hop on the wagon, took me long enough to find a good place.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Garmr

So I like MME’s post 670 on Garmr. It is simply too much effort involved for scum to do it, and especially considering that it doesn’t seem made up.

So

Unvote: My Milked Eek

Also I am leaning town on havingfitz. And have been feeling worse about Garmr lately.

These are the notes I have on garmr:
Townie:
49 : Somewhat likes this post. Brings opinions on players. Not taking stances though.

Scummy:
91: Buys Squirrel Girl and Herselfs arguements to easily, and even agree with them.
234: Nonsensical post. To seem active? Nothing to say about the game?
560: Like some of his reads, but not all. Some I really don't like. A weak scumpoint.
567: Don't like his one line posts 567-569
593: Sheeping onto herself. He is arguing poorly.

Haven’t reviewed my reads, and will reread and ISO Garmr later but will put my vote on him for now at least.
VOTE: Garmr

Two people who have been scum reading each other the entire game vote the exact same person and all interaction between them disappears and both begin an aggressive push around the same time. Traces of the connection between them is littered everywhere and with knowledge that scum have scum chat it just makes it even more obvious. They are leaving traces everywhere.

[Herself]

I fucking told you that Garmr gets it, mollie

Holy shit man I love you. A+++++++ post, would read 1000 more times

Other than the fact that I'm not convinced that Fitz is town yet, that is exactly what I think just happened.

- Des

[Garmr]

I don't think fitz is on the scum team with that claim maybe a SK but why claim odd night vig when he could just say normal vig and get to his goal faster.

[Regfan]

Herself and Garmr, if you both agree with me that TSB is scum then change your vote to him, we're nearing deadline and need to actually get towards a lynch and while I kind of agree with some of Garmr's reasoning on TvK (The conclusion he tries to get towards in Post 779 makes no sense whatsoever and reads as just fabricating reasoning to push a lynch) I don't fully agree that it makes him scum and I still read TvK's comment about him not generating content in Post 270 vs his comment about the same thing in this game / post where he was town insanely similar as well as like his explanation in Post 449 and his Post 564 was something that I went "Yeah, this is almost exactly how I'm reading everyone at the moment" when I got it which is something I find to be a massive town tell, it's not easy for scum to fake the same wavelength and thought process of town.

Also highly doubt scum would fake-claim vig and I think the fact that mafia have daytalk points slightly more towards it being a scum team of 3 which means a SK is unlikely (If this is 3 scum + SK then seriously fuck that, that's not balanced at all is super swingy and has led to a lot of my loses already and it's something I think or hope that F-16 would be better than to have) which sadly means that Fitz is town which sucks massively since I was actually really confident in him being scum (I've probably only been more confident than here a handful of times lately).

[Wake1]

We don't want a no-lynch.

VOTE: Unvote

I will hammer whoever reaches L-1

, provided there's not a counterclaim that halts it.

Because I'm working 15 hours today, I'll try to contribute when able. At the least, I'll be taking notes and saving them to a draft.

[Herself]

We'll revisit your TvK town case tomorrow

Unvote
Vote: Silver Bard

- Des

[Garmr]

UNVOTE: tvk

VOTE: The silver bard

Lets get this lynch on the road

[havingfitz]

@Wake - with regard/s to.

No interest in a Silver or Eek lynch. TvK and Kid A would require a read through...not sure on them. Still suspect Herself and Garmr though his post 810 did give me some reservations. I don't know if he is good enough as scum to produce a post like that. ......

[Kid A]

ok crazy theory - mafia team has daytalk but the kill is submitted by a traitor who cant read the conversation (kind of like ground control and then theres one guy in space)
also herself is one of the people with access to the daytalk

this would explain havingfitz having a low powered role when scum were seemingly pretty well powered and explain one of herselfs posts where i think he tried to soft a pr read

VOTE: herself

[Regfan]

Fitz, here's a fact for you: Herself and Eek aren't getting lynched today, end of story. Really it's between TvK, Garmr and Silver and in those the only one I'd say has a really high chance of flipping mafia is Silver but I'm interested: What's your town-read on TSB revolved around?

PEdit: Kid A, "Traitor submitting the nightkill" is non-normal and therefore impossible to be the case.

[Herself]

ok crazy theory - mafia team has daytalk but the kill is submitted by a traitor who cant read the conversation (kind of like ground control and then theres one guy in space)
also herself is one of the people with access to the daytalk

this would explain havingfitz having a low powered role when scum were seemingly pretty well powered and explain one of herselfs posts where i think he tried to soft a pr read

VOTE: herself

I generally don't buy into "Crackpot theory = town" but jesus christ the imagination is strong in this one.

- Des

[Garmr]

Fitz I got a request if I get lynched today and then you see that I'm town can you shoot TvK.

P edit

Kid A are you trying to get a no lynch for today.

[Kid A]

Fitz, here's a fact for you: Herself and Eek aren't getting lynched today, end of story. Really it's between TvK, Garmr and Silver and in those the only one I'd say has a really high chance of flipping mafia is Silver but I'm interested: What's your town-read on TSB revolved around?

PEdit: Kid A, "Traitor submitting the nightkill" is non-normal and therefore impossible to be the case.

normal games are allowed one or two original roles as long as it's balanced right?

unless kill submitting traitor is explicitly non normal

[Regfan]

Mafia that don't have the ability to night-kill isn't a "Role" it's a mechanic and therefore non-normal.

[Herself]

PS I don't soft/crumb my role. Care to quote where you think I was trying to here?

- Des