Mini 1515: Touhou Imperishable Night (Game Over)

[zMuffinMan]

to be really honest, I think that was so unexpected it was unfair.

mm, i'm not sure whether i would have picked up on it as town, but if you think about it, the existence of a multidoc (and if TNE had full-claimed, his role as well) should have pointed out to something going on at night with extra night kill(s)

I FUCKING HAD BOTH OF THEM

I COULD HAVE FUCKING WON FROM HERE

mm to be fair, i don't think you even realised that we were

both

bussing, but your VCA had me a bit worried there, which is why i injected the varsoon wagon into the mix (although this was kind of a mistake in hindsight and an obvious scumclaim if you thought about it deeply) and felt the need to do damage control with you before anything got out of hand

also, if i actually were town, i probably wouldn't have put much stock in VCA this game over reads. D2 VCA wouldn't have been that useful if some combination of {mac, GP, TNE} were actually scum considering how quick it went, and D1 the mafiaSSK wagon was... yeah. i don't think

anyone

predicted the scum team all piling onto that and one reason i wouldn't have minded leaving mastin alive is because he probably would have "realised" that nacho+me didn't make sense as a scum team :/

MYLO was when t was disabled, not LYLO.

bork told us it was disabled at lylo, not mylo

it's in the scum QT

we should have thought of TNE being something more, considering mastin setup speculation

we did, kinda. i had him as a ? because i thought either he or morph had extra powers. kinda went over this when we were discussing it.

but yeah TNE's role was super powerful if he had chosen different target(s)

anyway, gg

[pieguyn]

Hardly your fault, pie.

Losing in two mislynches is a setup quirk you couldn't have accounted for.

also I love you all in the dead chat

You're spectacular, man.
Let's play more games together sometime.

As for feeling mad at yourself, don't.
You did amazingly well. Believe in yourself. You're usually right! Hold on to your beliefs! Fight for your beliefs!
I was really mad at myself for not winning the last game for my team.
I got real bent out of shape for it.
What you've got to remember is that you're still awesome, great at the game, and fun to play with. Keep playing, keep giving it your all, and you'll get those wins. You'll get even better, too.

you guys
you all make me feel warm and fuzzy :3

[pieguyn]

he probably would have "realised" that nacho+me didn't make sense as a scum team :/

I realized sometime after falling asleep you+giffycho would make a lot of sense and that if it wasn't mac, it'd be you two. not outing why :> no all 3 of us talking after the hammer didn't have anything to do with it

my preferred lynch order was mac -> giffycho -> you, with GP the most likely to be town of the four. I wasn't trying to determine the exact set of mafia at d3. I was searching for one town in those names and then if I lynched a townie on d3 I could fix it. I assumed it wouldn't be a problem but that fucking extra kill fked everything up. I wasn't even under the impression scum ever gets extra kills, and I still think it's a bad idea. plus there was already a 1 sided lover, my ability could make the parity incorrect, and Varsoon's doc was only 2-shot.

in retrospect I should have outed this since I didn't see myself living past n3, but it didn't matter anyway. when I woke up and saw "game over" I thought I was dreaming @_@

not only that but it's like Cabd said. I thought there was no way in hell it'd be possible to lose with so little room for error = =

[zMuffinMan]

there was a lot of room for error, though

dayvig town - error
lynch watcher D1 - error
out so many PRs D1 - error
TNE chose wrong target - error
TNE didn't choose a target D3 - error
lynch claimed PR D1 - error
voting so quickly D3 - error

like, not all of these were controllable errors or even predictable errors (re: D3, but i think you guys were too hasty anyway), but they were all errors that added up in our favour

yeah we only needed two mislynches to win but that was because we got the multidoc N1 AND we chose to save poison for a later use, if not for that, we woulda needed 3 + dodge all important PRs + etc

there was a lot of room for error. we just lucked out in having town make a lot of errors

[Cabd]

there was a lot of room for error. we just lucked out in having town make a lot of errors

That and the jester drawing watcher and outing the doc to cause maximum chaos on his way down.

[zMuffinMan]

lynch watcher D1 - error
lynch claimed PR D1 - error

well i shouldn't have included this error twice, but i really am of the theory that lynching a claimed PR D1 is silly unless you have strong reason to believe they're lying or the alternatives suck

[zMuffinMan]

also it wasn't entirely wayne's fault that varsoon claimed

iirc you guys were also playing along with his "reaction test"

but that reminds me of another error that both wayne and varsoon made - early claiming

[zMuffinMan]

like 2 PRs claiming at L-3 made this game easy mode for us :/

[pieguyn]

I guess, but I wasn't expecting it to be possible to lose in 2 mislynches. and I wasn't even considering mafia getting an extra kill since I was not under the impression it was even a possibility

even the mod agreed the extra kill was unfair @_@

[zMuffinMan]

i don't know what else would have counter-balanced the amount of power town had. it would have had to be an entirely different setup without the extra kill

[zMuffinMan]

this game wasn't scum-sided, just a bit swingy.

varsoon claims doc
tne neighborizes + jailkeeps him
watcher watches varsoon the next night, varsoon protects tne + someone else

like this was a possibility even with the extra kill so like... yeah

we didn't exactly have too much power

[zMuffinMan]

also TNE could just

DOC

varsoon, not JK him, which would essentially mean 3 protected players N1...

[pieguyn]

this setup as it is, with the extra kill entirely removed, seems balanced for me. the main town PRs were 2-shot multi-doctor, D1 vigilante, TNE's neighborize-doc-jailkeep, and watcher. even so, there's certainly ways to give scum more power without allowing a surprise LYLO

for me the surprise LYLO was the mostly unfair thing. if an extra kill was allowed without causing said surprise LYLO, I'd feel much better

I'm not claiming to know anything about setup design but that's my opinion. 0.0

[borkjerfkin]

I guess, but I wasn't expecting it to be possible to lose in 2 mislynches. and I wasn't even considering mafia getting an extra kill since I was not under the impression it was even a possibility

even the mod agreed the extra kill was unfair @_@

unfair not from a balance perspective, but from a mechanics perspective. Scum having that kill, however, was balanced by the shitton of power town had. Without that kill i'd have severely limited alice's power and probably changed what remilia did entirely.

[pieguyn]

^ that

sry for raging so much it's probably just that I have an absolute personal hatred for surprise LYLOs. as I said before, I really loved the game and everything up till then was perfect :3

[fferyllt]

bork told us it was disabled at lylo, not myloit's in the scum QT

He told us MYLO, not LYLO.

[borkjerfkin]

I was just upset that i missed the mark on this and let some people down. Totally get where youre coming from.

Then i blasted iron maiden at full volume on the way home and feel much better. im ready to start my next setup design

[borkjerfkin]

bork told us it was disabled at lylo, not myloit's in the scum QT

He told us MYLO, not LYLO.

I told cabd the reverse i thought so a scum lynch couldnt endgame you.

[Cabd]

Attaboy bork.

And yeah ffery is confused.

[zMuffinMan]

this setup as it is, with the extra kill entirely removed, seems balanced for me

nah

we were completely fucked without the extra kill if TNE had chosen his target(s) differently

like completely and utterly fucked

his role was so so so powerful in combination with varsoon's and wayne's

if he had played it differently we'd have

needed

the extra kill to even stance a vague chance of winning, and that would have been a long shot anyway

[pieguyn]

yeah TNE what the hell

he had a doc ability right? why didn't he just doc Varsoon

wow TNE you really did break my heart </3

[borkjerfkin]

The remilia role was by far the best thing about the setup

But shes the best character so naturally

[pieguyn]

But shes the best character so naturally

no way in hell you're taking her from me

I hereby challenge you to a duel

[Remilia Scarlet]

But shes the best character so naturally

no way in hell you're taking her from me

I hereby challenge you to a duel

Duel over.

[zMuffinMan]

The remilia role was by far the best thing about the setup

i quite like the idea of the role (it's inventive and i woulda loved to have rolled that role this game), but still... wow at the synergy town had here, and even after the doc claim and watcher claim D1, TNE's role alone was powerful enough that he coulda screwed us over completely