Mewbie 1442 the second -- Game over

[Malakittens]

2.06

With 7 alive it's 4 votes to lynch.

Voting for:

*CrisP - ArcAngel9 [1]
*Yiu113 -
*goodmorning - CrisP [1]
*Brian Skies -
*jmo16mla -
*ArcAngel9 - jmo16mla, Yiu113, Buckwild [3] [L-1]
*Buckwild -
*Nachomamma8 -

Not voting: Brian Skies, Goodmorning [4]

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2013-11-29 21:56:00)

[CrisP]

Haha, I see.

Please don't hammer unless:

- we get close to the deadline

- she actually talks and most of us agree what she has to say is scummy.

[jmo16mla]

I'm only asking to hold it so that no one else suddenly finds her scummy and hammers.

[CrisP]

I implicitly agreed, under the above stated conditions.

[Brian Skies]

Once again (really?), low hanging fruits can definitely be scum, I just don't like that you brought this up, because from my POV you have a possible ulterior motive to do so, this motive being to deflect from you being mafia or you being mafia with GM.

I misread your statement then.

I already answered this, plus I never stated anywhere that VT's should lie about their role, I don't know where you and BW inferred that, see my answer to BW for the rest.

I agree, that's why claiming VT is extra bad, not only do you help mafia but the moment you claim VT you will be lynched for sure. What I said, for the n-th time, is that it makes no sense whatsoever to claim VT

We usually don't lynch people without claims and I'm trying to explain to you why her claim wasn't bad because she was expected to claim her role in the first place. You keep saying claiming VT was bad, and it's not because that was her role.

@Brian: I really would like to know what you think of CrisP.

He's completely shredded the townread I've had on him before. But there's still the possibility of him just being newbtown. Hard to determine.



For those of you on the AA wagon:
Why are you on it? Is the slot scummy to you or are you pushing a possible policy lynch right now?

[CrisP]

We usually don't lynch people without claims and I'm trying to explain to you why her claim wasn't bad because she was expected to claim her role in the first place.

I gave you a logical undisputable argument on why her claim was bad, if you don't understand, the problem is on your side.

[Brian Skies]

I gave you a logical undisputable argument on why her claim was bad, if you don't understand, the problem is on your side.

Know what, kid? I'm done playing the SE. Think what you want you arrogant little prick.

VOTE: Crisp

I think you're scum.

Bite me.

[CrisP]

Again, while I present to you a logical argument to why you are full of crap on the VT claim, look at your reaction.

What you are saying is, since everybody claims VT, that must be the right thing to do, regardless of how flawed it is.

I'll try to meta you and see if you normally are this dumb when I have time, this might also be a decent excuse to vote me without raising too much suspicion if you are mafia after all.

[ArcAngel9]

Crisp - Go and fuck yourself.
This guy has to be the scum, His aggressive playing and dodging and seeking for lynch targets is not town motive.
this one must be lynched.

VOTE: Crisp

Buckwild is may crisp scumbuddy or just derping around in his usual way.

Goodmorning , You know when i say this..and i say it. I am fucking Town. Now help me to lynch this Crisp nonsense shit.

[Yiu113]

Right, AA.

You've been lurking the entire game. Literally the entire game.

You just come in and vote someone, without a good explanation. Could you at a minimum put your thoughts on people? You know, like I did when I swapped in here?

[ArcAngel9]

I see Crisp as scum. Isn't that enough to vote someone?
i have already stated my reason to vote Crisp. If you read through his game.. All you would see an opportunist who ended up targeting someone who has hardly been here..

I agree that its not fair for not been here but that doesn't make one scummy. there are ways to get information but his posts doesn't look like them and His meta reference on me is BULL SHIT. Goodmorning knows my play. She would be the right person to tell you what is my real meta.

[CrisP]

Crisp - Go and fuck yourself.

I already expressed the same sentiment with regards to you in a more civil manner.

This guy has to be the scum, His aggressive playing and dodging and seeking for lynch targets is not town motive.

Aggressive playing is not mafia, looking for information is not mafia (which is not equal to seeking lynch targets), there are so many reasons I can't be mafia in this game your statement is just funny. Just to name one, if you are indeed town, I'm not hammering you idiot, when I have had a perfect excuse to do so for the last 2 days, were I mafia.

Also you already voted me moron, at least try and keep count about who you are voting.

What is mafia or mafia friendly is lurking the whole game like you did.

Now help me to lynch this Crisp nonsense shit.

There is no way you are getting me lynched, if you are fucking town, like you told goodmorning, stop this, post valid reads or I will have you lynched in the near future.

[CrisP]

All you would see an opportunist who ended up targeting someone who has hardly been here..

Sure, that's why I am voting Goodmorning at the moment, that's also why I went after JM day one, are you serious? Do you even know who is voting you at the moment?

I agree that its not fair for not been here but that doesn't make one scummy.

It makes you scum friendly or scummy.

His meta reference on me is BULL SHIT.

meta reference on you? Quote please.

Goodmorning knows my play.

I like how you assume Goodmorning has your best interest at heart, for all you know she is mafia this game.

[ArcAngel9]

Look Mr nonsence whatever
Firstly...stop calling yourself CIVIL because you're not.

You didnt give any reason to be nice with you because you started this off in an odd way. and you expect me to cooperate with you if you're town? believe me, if you're town..i still want you dead becuz of your attitude.

this may sound bit anti town but hell you deserve it.

I dont know what you trying to prove by saying that you would have hammered me if you wanted it.. but it wont change anything for me. I will still be town, maybe a dead town. So big deal.. if that's what you're trying achieve.

Anywayz, I dont have time for you.. and rather i dont want to waste my vote on you

And looking my wagon..
Obviously Crisp initiated it and gave a royal way for scum to walk in there..

and the lamest opportunist vote award goes to..

VOTE: Buckwild

[Malakittens]

No more language, be civil. <3

[ArcAngel9]

[Brian Skies]

What you are saying is, since everybody claims VT, that must be the right thing to do, regardless of how flawed it is.

No, I'm telling you that there was nothing wrong with her claim because it was HER ACTUAL [freaking] ROLE! TOWN DOESN'T HAVE A REASON TO LIE, ESPECIALLY IN THIS SET-UP! (Note: there are actually some scenarios where it is beneficial to lie, but that situation has not applied in this game)

AA is kind of on the right track of why I'm scum-reading you. Not enough for a townread though.

What you've been doing this game hasn't been town.

You put on this facade that you're obvtown and that you run this town.
You seem to be more interested in painting players as scum instead of actually finding their motivations.
You assign motivations to things that shouldn't be assigned these motivations.
You set up associative tells and look like you're chaining lynches.

You want me to treat you like the player you think you are, then here it is.

You're scum. HEAR ME ROAR!

I still stand by my earlier scumread of Jmo.

[CrisP]

i still want you dead becuz of your attitude.

So you are not even playing for your win condition if you are town, seriously how bad can someone be at this game, if anything you deserve it based on how you are playing, but since I want to win I'll state that if you are town I don't want to have you lynched.

I dont know what you trying to prove by saying that you would have hammered me if you wanted it.. but it wont change anything for me. I will still be town, maybe a dead town. So big deal.. if that's what you're trying achieve.

It should prove to you I am not mafia if you are town. If you die as town you realize you fucked up yes? Or don't you even understand that?

Obviously Crisp initiated it and gave a royal way for scum to walk in there..

Obviously this is bullshit, you initiated it by lurking the whole time, I wasn't even the first to call you out on it today, that came from jmo16mla and Yui113 first, but I totally agree with them so no problem if you say it was me who started it.

I do agree I don't like the BW vote though, mainly because the motivation he gave, the we need to move forwards, don't make sense to me.

[ArcAngel9]

Crisp,
You're circling your points again and again.. so i dont have time for this. You can continue rant about my lurking as excuse to call me scum but that doesn't change how i feel about you right now.

You have no logic to call me scum and hell yes.. you initiated all that crappy wagon.

Brain... I may agree with you on JMO because this much i can confirm that there is 100% scum in my wagon or at least 50% scum.

[CrisP]

No, I'm telling you that there was nothing wrong with her claim because it was HER ACTUAL [freaking] ROLE! TOWN DOESN'T HAVE A REASON TO LIE, ESPECIALLY IN THIS SET-UP! (Note: there are actually some scenarios where it is beneficial to lie, but that situation has not applied in this game)

OH MY FUCKING GOD. Again, since you seem to have problems understanding what I am saying:

I NEVER SAID SHE SHOULD HAVE LIED ABOUT HER ROLE, I SAID SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE CLAIMED VT BECAUSE THERE IS NO VALID REASON TO CLAIM VT IN THIS SETUP. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NOT CLAIMING AND LYING ABOUT YOUR CLAIM?

You put on this facade that you're obvtown and that you run this town.

I did no such thing, other people put me in their town list, so I tried to use this to give the rest of you as much information as possible, the only way to do this is to lead.

You seem to be more interested in painting players as scum instead of actually finding their motivations.

This may be true for you, it certainly is not for me: Easy examples that come to mind:

- I thought Nacho was scummy because I did not understand his confidence in JM, he told me why he had the read he had about JM, I said I felt better about him => trying to understand motivation of other players
- I thought JM was scummy because of his early push on GM, I preassured him untill I understood what he meant => trying to understand motivation of other players
- I have been questioning you and GM for the last 3 days => trying to understand player motivation

You assign motivations to things that shouldn't be assigned these motivations.

You set up associative tells and look like you're chaining lynches.

I don't assign motivations, I try to build scenarios. I told you repeatedly that that's how I try to scumhunt, at least from your POV this may be a valid reason as opposed to the rubbish you wrote before this but here we are just using different playstyles, maybe yours is better in forum mafia, I can only use what I know and this has worked fine for me up to now.

[Brian Skies]

I NEVER SAID SHE SHOULD HAVE LIED ABOUT HER ROLE, I SAID SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE CLAIMED VT BECAUSE THERE IS NO VALID REASON TO CLAIM VT IN THIS SETUP. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NOT CLAIMING AND LYING ABOUT YOUR CLAIM?

It's the difference between claiming and not claiming. She was expected to claim. Period. Why you can't grasp this is beyond me.

[Brian Skies]

Brain... I may agree with you on JMO because this much i can confirm that there is 100% scum in my wagon or at least 50% scum.

Thoughts on the other players?

[CrisP]

You have no logic to call me scum and hell yes.. you initiated all that crappy wagon.

I dispute that but honestly, if you want to think I started the wagon on you I don't mind, given that you are finally talking the rest of town that understands how this game is played should give me brownie points for it then, although I don't really deserve them more than Yui113 or JM.

I don't need "logic to call you scum" to start questioning you, I need you to be useless to town as you have been for that.

If you read all my posts about you, what I am doing is trying to make you talk, I pressured you at the start but once it got to L-1 I was the first to say we shouldn't just go ahead and lynch you but wait for you to talk and I was also the only one to state that if we were wrong on you then we had wasted a lynch. Does this look like opportunistic mafia to you?

It's the difference between claiming and not claiming. She was expected to claim. Period. Why you can't grasp this is beyond me.

Look at how you are stating it, period. That just shows how closed you are mentally. If she was expected to claim, then go back, read my logical argument of why claiming VT is bad and find a hole in it. If you don't, start asking yourself if always claiming VT is really the best play.

[CrisP]

GM is your townread of Brian more of a day1 or of a day2 read?

[goodmorning]

Again, while I present to you a logical argument to why you are full of crap on the VT claim, look at your reaction.

What you are saying is, since everybody claims VT, that must be the right thing to do, regardless of how flawed it is.

Let me try to IC this to bed:
She claimed VT because that is telling us "I am not a PR, it is OK to lynch me."
Yes, occasionally people will believe this and not lynch said person. Yes, that does limit the NK pool for Scum.
However, this almost never happens, and especially not with any smaller a playerlist than D1 one of a Mini, and especially especially not in Micros because it would be much more limiting (down to 5 or 6 on D1 of a Micro vs. 8 or 9 on D1 of a Mini vs. really a whole lot on D1 of a Large).
Newbie games are Micro sized.

Can we stop arguing about this now and pay attention to the game?


Not a huge fan of the way CrisP accuses Brian of going for low-hanging fruit as to AA9 when CrisP is urging that lynch on.
For that matter, not a huge fan of the way CrisP has been insinuating that wagon without having been on it for a while now.

AA9 looks Town here, IMO. Will probably re-meta within the next couple days.

Aggressive playing is not mafia, looking for information is not mafia (which is not equal to seeking lynch targets), there are so many reasons I can't be mafia in this game your statement is just funny.

This sentence basically says this: look at all the Town things I'm doing! There's no way anyone who acts Town can be Scum!

For someone who's supposedly spent the whole game acting Town, you've done an awful lot of telling us that.

GM is your townread of Brian more of a day1 or of a day2 read?

It was a D1 read. Now that he's started posting more, it's both.

I do have a shiny new D2 scumread that I've been working up to voting, though. Anyone want to tell me who they think it is?