Marketplace Mafia III - Game Over

[Garuda]

Because otherwise I just don't understand what you were getting at with that bit.

[Magua]

Vote Count 5.12

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Nero Cain (4): Lord Mhork, Garuda, zMuffinMan, VoidedMafia
uʍop ǝpısdn (3): 1baldeagle1, ProHawk, Espeonage
BBmolla (2): Ghostly Penguin, Harakiri
zMuffinMan (1): Nero Cain
Espeonage (1): pieguyn

Not Voting (3): Lost Butterfly, BBmolla, uʍop ǝpısdn

Deadline for Day 5 is Thursday, December 5th, at 4:00pm EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2013-12-05 16:00:00)

[Garuda]

I’m against a mass claim unless I get a pretty good reason why we should mass claim. It just seems like fishing to me. LB also needs to explain what they did with the info they already had. D1 or D2 they were asking for claims and said they’d explain later so they can either explain or link me to where they already explained.

Relevant.

I think we should massclaim because we're a day away from LYLO, traditional scumhunting is failing us, and everyone knows where the power roles are concentrated, anyway. And I think in a set-up this complex, at least one person is guaranteed to mess up their claim somewhere. My

only

best skill as a scumhunter is catching people in role contradictions and scumslips. And that's leaving aside roles like Market Analyst or Coroner that could do all sorts of delicious things with the results.

Oddly, though, I think I

like

Nero's refusal to massclaim. This probably makes me a terrible person.

On that note, Voided, Nero, Espeonage, and ProHawk, who did you send money last night? And ProHawk, who did you send money on N3?

Did you actually like Nero reaction to mass claim, or was that you trying to pull the wagon off him? I see no reason why he would complain about it at this point because it's pretty much the only way we will be able to pull this game out of our asses, along with a reformed plan. Empire is mostly out of the picture at this point because life, but he thought that a strong tool would be a plan where people can be held responsible since the trust system clearly went to shit. Natirasha and cabd setup speculation dance gives us a pretty good idea what to expect from the scumteam, and yes, some things will get fucked up if we put all of our cards down on the table, but we should be able to outpace scum for now.

[Garuda]

Well...you're allowed to have

thoughts

on it, but you know what I mean.

What about it that wasn't scummy to you? I thought it was pretty scummy when I first saw it.

I'm pretty sure I already gave my thoughts on why I found that vote to be in a natural place on Day 4. But you first. What exactly

was

scummy about it?

Also, what's your current read on Muffin?

I said it already, but I can say it again. It did not feel natural to me, it smelled of scum desperately trying to lynch a universal townread. Also, I know I shouldn't be making this an alignment indicative thing, but I can't help but notice that uwop goes inactive soon as there is a wagon on him.

Muffin is null-town for me.

Why are we all scumreading uwop, but not lynching him?

Most people aren't scum reading him. Most people note the case on him is shit and it really hasn't felt like anyone has actually tried to determine his alignment, which screams lazy dumb lynch that won't hit scum.

[Garuda]

LB, if this is multiball, does potential LyLo still apply?

Having said that, given that PRs auctioned off are temporary, getting more info from mass claiming them/their results isn't a bad idea.

--PA

Where has Ghostlin been?

[Garuda]

Right, so I had time last night to work on this (go figure), and will hopefully have time later tonight. LB, if you had a scum-result on me, it would be because you are scum.

I didn't see this answer coming from a million miles away.

[Garuda]

Also, I mentioned this yesterday or the day before, but Garuda always seemed to be pushing or at least early on all of the wagons against the chronic lurkers, which seems to indicate a sense of wanting to get town early so they can coast later. Which is why I'm not going to be against joining a wagon on them at some point. I would like to have a think on what wagon I want to join though. I feel like last night's actions should probably be outed. LB does raise a good point that we need info.

Unvote

We pushed wagons against hermy (deadline lynch), doctor pepper (scum), and ka (lurker). Yes most of them were lurkers. A lot of them look scummy. I will also ask who the fuck was pushed that wasn't a lurker and whose name isn't Voided because Voided is incredibly town.

[Garuda]

I also think that at this point in the game that people making bad decisions should be held accountable. This is a serious mechanic that forms the crux of this game, and I don't think that enough is getting out. Mainly because all the people making actions are getting killed at night before they can reveal any sort of results. Which actually raises an interesting point. I think I might go back and look for clues and breadcrumbs to results. I feel that morph would have from what I know of those two and possibly others. We're just losing alot of information by the way we've organised this pool of people that are not only read as town, but also the ones doing everything that scum can pick and choose which to kill before they can reveal.

And that, I feel is where scum are nailing us, in the night game.

There is so much talk about holding people accountable and letting people coast when they make bad decisions, but there's a distinct lack of "oh hey, this was actually scummy". We lynched Seanald for being dumb already, he flipped town. We can lynch molla for being lazy and not clarifying things, but he will additionally flip town. Scum isn't nailing us in the night game. Scum is nailing us in the day game because we've ALL been lazy fucks. Scum can kill who they want because there currently aren't any threats to them, just people floating along the game and praying that they will somehow be carried to a win.

[Garuda]

Well if someone seems intent on lynching someone then later seems intent on lynching someone else, that would, to most people, infer that they want to lynch the more recent person.

Who cares if pie is intent on lynching you? He's not calling for your lynch for absolutely no reason; there's a case on you so you should probably respond to it.

[Garuda]

LB - the only time I transferred money to anyone was N2. After that, I decided it was pointless, dumb, and was greedy.

For those of you with me on the scum-list, why am I not being pushed today?

My vote on Upside Down is from my earlier scum read which I still believe to be accurate based on the Hermy stuffs. Here is my hypothetical question back to you LB.

Hypothetically

speaking... when upside down flips scum, is his "miniwagon" still horrible?

If he flips scum, his mini wagon is sill horrible.

[Garuda]

What even?

Was I incorrect that you are unlikely to move off me?

Is there a reason that you've decided to sit on your hands because pie has a strong conviction that you're scum...?

[Garuda]

Thanksgiving break is now happening.

I also hate pieguy's attack on espeonage. It was lazy and bad. I like GP for more likely to be town

And espeonage's response, how was that?

[Garuda]

Bah.

I kind of wanted him to claim first, but I might as well come forward and say that I have a completely meaningless "Not Mafia" result on Nero Cain. So given that scum are guaranteed to have investigation immunity, that means he's...50% less likely to be scum.

So...I don't really know who I want to lynch.

You should probably just say fuck that result and help us lynch Nero Cain. I have played with him plenty of times, and this just isn't his town meta.

[Lost Butterfly]

Fuck. I probably shouldn't have said anything and let him be lynched. And not bothered with that transparent half-assed ProHawk reaction test.

Go, me! I'm a moron.

I still don't understand what the hell that was about, so I wouldn't cry even half tears if you explained that one to me. Did you expect him to be like "lol I wouldn't get cop guilted because I have investigation immunity?".

I'm not saying it was a brilliant reaction test. But I felt like it was objectively

superior

to just posting my innocent right away.

The problem was that I was originally going to claim LAST, so I didn't set up a fake-guilty gambit. Then when it became obvious by PoE that I was the cop and no one seemed remotely interested in a massclaim, I just waffled for a while on whether I should just say nothing and try to defend Nero, say nothing and NOT defend Nero, or come forward. Then I just felt like it was a waste not to use the role to get

some

information, so figured I might as well try a reaction test, first. (I actually debated faking a guilty on

Nero

, but then realized he could probably give a genuine-seeming response as scum since he knew I was lying.) Ideally, the thought was that ProHawk would react awkwardly, and maybe I would even posture for a bit to look like I

did

have a guilty. But it became obvious that ProHawk wasn't going to give an interesting response, and continuing it would have been yet another "I have investigation immunity!"-style distraction.

[Lost Butterfly]

Bah.

I kind of wanted him to claim first, but I might as well come forward and say that I have a completely meaningless "Not Mafia" result on Nero Cain. So given that scum are guaranteed to have investigation immunity, that means he's...50% less likely to be scum.

So...I don't really know who I want to lynch.

You should probably just say fuck that result and help us lynch Nero Cain. I have played with him plenty of times, and this just isn't his town meta.

Then why didn't you say something about this days ago, when I was bugging your slot to explain where your Nero meta town read came from?

Also, I assume this was hydra dissonance?

is this out of fear that he's going to downgrade you to his null/scum pile, or do you really think nero is town?

Um, there are many things I fear in the world of mafia; Nero Cain is just about the last thing that would ever make that list.

Realtalk, though, I do actually think Nero is town based on what I know of his meta. As town, he tends to be a lot more abrasive / confrontational in his interactions with other people and he's also a lot more egocentric (posts like #696 are what I'm talking about). From what I remember seeing in his scum games, he tends to tone that down a lot and is just plain nowhere near as aggressive. I'm definitely seeing a lot more of the former in this game.

[Garuda]

Bah.

I kind of wanted him to claim first, but I might as well come forward and say that I have a completely meaningless "Not Mafia" result on Nero Cain. So given that scum are guaranteed to have investigation immunity, that means he's...50% less likely to be scum.

So...I don't really know who I want to lynch.

You should probably just say fuck that result and help us lynch Nero Cain. I have played with him plenty of times, and this just isn't his town meta.

Then why didn't you say something about this days ago, when I was bugging your slot to explain where your Nero meta town read came from?

Also, I assume this was hydra dissonance?

is this out of fear that he's going to downgrade you to his null/scum pile, or do you really think nero is town?

Um, there are many things I fear in the world of mafia; Nero Cain is just about the last thing that would ever make that list.

Realtalk, though, I do actually think Nero is town based on what I know of his meta. As town, he tends to be a lot more abrasive / confrontational in his interactions with other people and he's also a lot more egocentric (posts like #696 are what I'm talking about). From what I remember seeing in his scum games, he tends to tone that down a lot and is just plain nowhere near as aggressive. I'm definitely seeing a lot more of the former in this game.

I believed in a Nero town read a few days ago. I think that a portion of his aggression and abrasiveness is game is due to muffins attack on him, but the lack of fire after muffin asked if he could replace Nero with a doorknob seems telling.

[Garuda]

Especially in his posts today. What more has he done other than saying that he's here and he's still not going to post anything more of value?

[Garuda]

All three of Espy, Pie, Hara are on all there so I wouldn’t be surprised to find scum there.

then who do you think is the scum among them?

Prob Pie. Maybe Hara, idk.

Gost has been lurking

i am 100% certain this is not game-related

????

Your top 5 scum reads please.

Nero, I know you've played with me fucking before and you're able to track this hydra's activitiy, so you're either being fucking lazy or scum. Or both

What does tracking your hydra's activity have to do with anything

But a muffin flip points towards you being scum, amirite?

No because muffin's called me town without defending me.

I don't think that

Nero: vOIDED IS STILL ALIVE, LOOK AT ALL THAT RESISTANCE!!!
Muffin: Not true, there's been no resistance to his wagon.
Nero: Ok why is he still alive if this were true?

and now we're waiting on him to make up answer that he thinks would make any sort of sense.

Is not defending you.

no? I mean back in the day I'd NEVER get town read so it was like a dead giveaway if anyone had a town read on me though lately (and you can check my games for proof.) I get defended by town. I mean its not impossible to buy that scum are defending me but come on.

Why are you demanding a readthrough of a game/s from someone who has neither the time nor the inclination to read them (nor really the ability to properly analyze what I'm reading)?

You are posting here a lot....so why do you have so much time to post here but you

claim

to have time to not read other games. Also, if my getting defended by scum (if UD/Empcho flips scum) why would you not want to skim past games to show you that I often get defended by both town and scum? Do you not care what my alignment is? 'Cause that's that that looks like. Finally, why are you singling out UD and Empcho here, they are not the only ones defending me.

He also seems pretty disconnected from the game.

Aces was disconnected, yet he turned up scum. What makes Mhork different?

Molla pretty much is disconnected from the game, more or less, too.

You are scumreading Molla yet according to your logic you shouldn't.

I also still find it pretty scummy that he was calling Muffin “bleeding town” but didn’t see Muffin defending him.

I don't remember this. Muffin and I were the two people he called obvtown effectively because we defended him D2 instead of you.

So whomever defends him he calls obvtown. This raises no red flags for you?

Anys, here's the post where he calls Muffing "bleeding town" but supposedly doesn't notice Muffin defending him.

Was muffin defending me? He's just been bleeding town over the last few pages. 0.o

has been cussing like a sailor like he's done every game.

Is this new because I don't recall seeing this before?

It pains me to say that but I agree with Voided here. My remembrance of AMOL was that he was forceful but I don't remember him cussing it up and acting all angry like. Morph also didn't think this was AMOL Gost.

I think a muffin/voided lynch are our best bets today.

Like LOOK at this attack on muffin. It's limpwristed and a little depressing at best. Like, the only reason I think he finds Muffin scum here is because of the weird voided interactions or something?

[Garuda]

I remember last time Ilayed with Nero in a hydra in walking dead and he got into a fight with Thor it was a knock down drag out fight and Nero was incredibly town as a result. Or, his fight with CTD In Maniacal Mafia where CTD push on Obvtown Nero was the only reason I started considering him as scum in the first place.

[Garuda]

This fight is sorely sorely lacking in conviction and I think it means Nero scum.

[Garuda]

What do you think should be the plan for town going into the night tonight?

[Garuda]

Because quite frankly I'm toying with a plan that has town transferring all money to three town reads evenly and having those three town reads bid on a limited number of items pseudo randomly.

[zMuffinMan]

gonna be busy til about 36 hours from now so this will probably be my last post in the mean time

For those of you with me on the scum-list, why am I not being pushed today?

probably for the same reason you're not pushing a read other than ud

I have a completely meaningless "Not Mafia" result on Nero Cain. So given that scum are guaranteed to have investigation immunity, that means he's...50% less likely to be scum.

you're right. it is meaningless. and it doesn't affect my read on nero at all.



also,

@Espeonage,

if you have time now, can you start expanding on your reads?

[Espeonage]

I have been ever so slowly. But I'm doing it bit by bit.

[BBmolla]

I think the server bugged, everyone posting looks like Nacho