Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Day 2, Votecount 3

fferyllt [0]

Kid A [3]

ICEninja, My Milked Eek, Garmr

TvK [1]

Regfan

My Milked Eek [0]

LolWagons [0]

Regfan [0]

ICEninja [1]

Wake88

Garmr [0]

Squirrel Girl [0]

Wake88 [1]

Squirrel Girl

havingfitz [1]

Kid A

Not Voting [4]

- fferyllt, TvK, LolWagons, havingfitz

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is on December 8th at 11:30 AM PST or in (expired on 2013-12-08 11:30:00)

---

V/LA:
HavingFitz - not specified (assuming for Thanksgiving based on 1024)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Will start looking for a replacement for LolWagons

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

penguin_alien replaces LolWagons

[Kid A]

someone explain their scumread on wake to me pls

[penguin_alien]

I'll catch up here either late tonight or over the holiday weekend. Anything you want me to address, let me know.

[ICEninja]

Welcome, penguin. I'd like you to address how insanely scummy Kid A is, followed by your vote placed on him. Several of the main points about him can be found in my case.

I would also like to hear your opinion about fitz's claim of odd night vig, and the resulting n1 death of only 1 person, his strongest scum read.

I'm sure Squirrel Girl, as well as myself, would like to hear what you think about her case against Wake, the largest point of which is expressed in detail here.

Regfan's biggest scum read is TvK, and I suspect the both of us would appreciate your thoughts on his summary of TvK's scumminess in his most recent post.

That should cover the major current lynch possibilities.

[penguin_alien]

IIRC, Kid A was scummy in the only other game we've shared. I'll C&C along with looking at the case.

I read a bit of the start of Day Two when I saw in the OP that the mollie-Desp hydra had died. I haven't read their posting yet, but I have a hard time imagining town-mollie and town-Desperado working in concert being anyone's legit top scum read. havingfitz was a much better vig in Open 505. Which makes me not love his shot here. Add to that Garmr and Herself being two of the top three posters and it looks like scum aiming to knock off useful townies with plausible deniability. Not to mention him being claimed odd-night means he's not really accountable again until Day Four.

I'll have more detail and look into the others with my read-through.

[Wake1]

My read on TvK is in development. I haven't been idle.

[Squirrel Girl]

someone explain their scumread on wake to me pls

Wake wagon is dead, try to find a different hitch. Current options are you or TvK or, to be exciting, a scumread you have and a case you wish to present.

My read on TvK is in development. I haven't been idle.

::smacks Wake with newspaper to back of head::

Regardless of your alignment, you need to better yourself on this sort of thing. Super cereal.

[Wake1]

I believe intesity beats extensity every single time. I would rather be like a large beast, a megalith, a leviathan on this mental battlefield who, although moves slowly, delivers devastating blows. I am not a hummingbird who sips sugar and flits from flower to flower, depositing nice little dollops of expression.

Please, please pardon my colorful metaphors. I've gorged on much turkey and stuffing today, and am in a rare, ponderous mood. It's the Thanksgiving high.

Right now I have gathered some objective information, and am getting ready to start chewing it over in my mind, trying to analyze it and get a better grasp of the big picture regarding TvK.

[fferyllt]

A megalith?

Spoiler: one of these?

[Wake1]

If I recall correctly, a megalith also referred to a great monster/creature made of stone in some video games/manga/fiction. Like a golem, colossus, or titan.

[Squirrel Girl]

I believe intesity beats extensity every single time. I would rather be like a large beast, a megalith, a leviathan on this mental battlefield who, although moves slowly, delivers devastating blows. I am not a hummingbird who sips sugar and flits from flower to flower, depositing nice little dollops of expression.

Remember when you asked Mollie for her reads, and then explained to her that it was anti-town not to share them?

[Squirrel Girl]

You may translate the above as 'reads, all players, any century now' if you'd like.

I would.

[Wake1]

I believe intesity beats extensity every single time. I would rather be like a large beast, a megalith, a leviathan on this mental battlefield who, although moves slowly, delivers devastating blows. I am not a hummingbird who sips sugar and flits from flower to flower, depositing nice little dollops of expression.

Remember when you asked Mollie for her reads, and then explained to her that it was anti-town not to share them?

The problem is your assumption that I'm not willing to share them. Now that I've woken up and digested my feast I'm currently in the process of chewing over the data I've gathered. Please be patient.

[Squirrel Girl]

...those questions are important in general, but it's the reactions to those questions that really matter. How you respond determines your future in this game. If you evade, or redirect, or get defensive, that's a trigger. That triggers causes even more shots to be fired. Nothing needs to be said in defense of this process, because it's self-explanatory.

[Wake1]

TVK I (17-947)

Votes Orestes (TSB) in (17). Likes SG's vibe, but can't say it feels as Towny as others find it (44). He didn't really like ICE's vote because of a statement pulled out of its context, but he decided to keep his vote on Orestes (TSB) (67). In (107) he still didn't like Orestes (TSB), yet gave him some more time to expound, because he wanted to hear his reasonings on Banksys (Regfan). He liked the conversation between SG and Street (Fferyllt) on page 5-6, but he didn't approve of SG's conclusion yet viewed Street's (Fferyllt) reasoning as legit (178).

In that same post he quoted Herself; Herself said that she had wanted to work with Kid A, Garmr, SG, and Ice Day 1. In response to that he said this: "Hmm, Kid A? Don't see how he should be in this group. Unless you played with him before..." He still likes Garmr's way of posting, and Des's too, because it "had very good content." He couldn't read ICE at the moment, especially his last couple of posts where he really focuses on Herself. None of ICE's posts could maybe convince him of Herself's guilt at that point.

Is still waiting for Oreste's (TSB's) next post (179). He doesn't like Fitz's post, he calls them a bunch of questions that are presumably already answered; same with Kid A (210). Also, he had a feeling about MME's wall, too: "Hmm, I also got a strange vibe from that post. Dunno what to think of it yet..." He mentions he's had zero Scum games (261). He then seems to imply that Orestes (TSB), Kid A, TSO, and Fitz he doesn't like because of their low post content (if I am wrong, please correct me).

Later in (280) he gives a moderately thorough read on all players—I'll include some of my thoughts on this in my upcoming reads. He questions SG's vote on Fitz, and he questions her with "And do you have an idea about someone when you say 'but I feel we can do better?'"(288). In response to SG he doesn't want Street (FFeryllt) dead, but Orestes (TSB) definitely so (291). Nearly 100 posts later he's interested in the MME wagon (383). Wonders where Kid A went (384).

While responding to Garmr he reiterates that he really wants the inactive to start posting (399). (488) shows him saying "I don't feel comfortable with calling Wake town after 19 pages of silence and then a couple of decent posts." He wonders how Bard's scumpoints are calculated. He also asks Bard "Do you immediatly call the person with the most scumpoints your top scumread?" As well as "Is the total amount of scumpoints relative to factors like total number of posts?," "And do lurkers get just as many scumpoints as posters?," and "If so, where does for example Quadraxis/Wake, who had exactly 1 post before you posted, rank?"

Also regarding Bard, in (510), he asks him "Is it just me or is this absolutely not convincing at all?," and then mentions "Omg your reads suck so I hard, my reads are the only ones that are right?" He then says "As far as I understand your reasoning, this seems to me like the core of your case on Herself. I don't know what you are trying here, but in my book your only making yourself look worse." to Bard (533). Again he dismisses Bard with "Once again, the same BS. What if ICE would walk in right now and vote Street? Or the other way around? Then they would be instascum, right? I love where my vote is at this moment." He continues disagreeing with Bard while pressuring him in (563), and we now know Bard was frustrated enough to self-hammer.

TvK's reads haven't really changed in (564), but he's accused Bard of making cases where they don't exist, while saying Bard's attack against Herself, SG, and TvK feels fabricated. He wanted Bard lynched, followed by Fitz (571). Appears to be trying to lead Fitz off of Herself's trail: "The fact you're tunnelling so hard on Herself. Apart from your arguement with them, which is not really going somewhere, I feel like you've not really looked at other players (maybe you have, but all the other players seem like a side note to you at the moment)" (576). And in that same post, "...I don't like it that you find Wake and Eek town, when they only posted a little bit of content on the last couple of pages."

He doesn't like Garmr's heavy reaction when someone calls him(Garmr) Scummy (580). Still doesn't like Garmr, but feels an MME lynch is unavoidable, and says he'll post more detailed stuff later (664). He unvotes Bard and votes for Garmr (682). Also, he responds to my Annihilator Beam shots without much if any complaints (728). Regarding Kid A he says this: "Once again he just pops in when someone mentions that he hasn't been posting in a while. I'd love to go after this guy somewhere in day 2" (773).

His Scumreads have changed; Eek started posting more, he went from null to fishy on Garmr, and Fitz looked better with Garmr's increasing fishiness (789). Post (897) shows that he doesn't like Kid A's sudden vote on Fitz. He asks me when I'm going to get involved, and why I voted for Kid A when there were two seperate big wagons, and mentions that I've not even once been involved in the forming of the wagons (909). And he also wonders about Kid A, the one I had wanted to lynch Day 1. Kid A is his main Scumread, starting from the end of Day 1 when he started suspecting ICEninja (915).

Also, he then points out that Kid A had a very strange theory and had concluded that was Scum, and that Kid had hopped on the Bard wagon without really giving a read on him. In (947) he asks Regfan about my Scumreading Regfan. Thursdays are busy for TvK, and although he's not really convinced I'm Scum he says that if I'm Town my "attitude really needs to change;" Kid A's last post also bugs him, and he mentions posting more in detail later (1023).

These are my reads on TvK.

TvK I've had a bit of difficulty pinning down, but, I think I may have figured it out. His opening posts from (17) to (178) reads as null-Town to me; nothing too Scummy or Townish there. He would appear at that moment as a Townie willing to sit back and ask questions, in order to find out what's what. Herself (the Mason) mentioned working with Kid A and three certain others, and TvK mentioned he didn't really see why Kid A should be in that group. It could be that Herself really did want to work with them and TvK was simply giving his benign opinion, or it could be that Herself (as Mason) made it look like she wanted to work with those four and imply one or more of them were Masons, in order for Scum to potentially go after them after her death and subsequent flip. And, perhaps, it could be that TvK is her Mason partner.

Remember that TvK said that

nothing

ICEninja posted could even

maybe

convince him of Herself's guilt. That was during Day 1, and

no one

besides the Mason knew there were Masons in the game. Only after the fact when Night 1 resolved did we learn of her role. ...so, why was TvK so eager to protect her Day 1? It couldn't be because he's Scum, because Scum didn't know there were Masons, either. He does question and comment on MME, Fitz, Kid A and Orestes. That comes off as being Townish, I guess. What does bother me a bit though is when he mentioned that he's had zero Scum games. I've heard that line from people who were Scum in that game they were in before.

One problem I'm dealing with it that he wanted Orestes (Bard) dead, and Bard flipped Town. Yet he defended Herself and distracted people from her lynch, and she was a Mason, and no one knew there were Masons Day 1 yet he continued to defend her. He said Bard's attack against Herself felt fabricated. His annoyance with the inactives comes off as Townish, too. Again he defends Herself against Bard in (510). It could be that Bard, TvK, and Herself was an all-Town slapfest. In (280) he has Herself pegged as Town, that he really liked their way of hunting, especially their (155).

The real kicker is this quote right here: "The fact you're tunnelling so hard on Herself. Apart from your arguement with them, which is not really going somewhere, I feel like you've not really looked at other players (maybe you have, but all the other players seem like a side note to you at the moment)" (576)." Again he's defending Herself and telling off Fitz, trying to get him to look elsewhere. I think TvK is a Mason who tried his best to defend the other Mason Day 1, but somehow Mafia got a whiff of Herself's scent and killed her Night 1, and, I'm guessing, they already plan (or have already planned) to try and kill TvK Night 2.

I think TvK is a Town Mason, and that Scum have already figured it out before me, and that he is indeed their target tonight. All they need to do is look at who mysteriously kept defending the hidden Mason Day 1 to draw conclusions. I know I chastised Garmr about talking on Town Masons, but this is important and I had the scary realization that if I've figured it out with such little data, Scum with all their advantageous knowledge discerned it far faster than I have. If we have a Doc/protective role in this game, I strongly urge that TvK is defended tonight. TvK, if you're indeed a Town Mason, it doesn't really matter anymore to stay quiet about it. If you're Mason then you should claim right now and lead the town, and if you're lying I suspect we'll find out soon enough should another dead Townie flip Mason.

So, reviewing all of this, I cannot in good faith support his wagon at this moment. I will not push for his lynch, but defend him from it. If there was a range from 1-10, I'd give him a 9/10. That's how strong I feel about his read at the moment.

[penguin_alien]

Sorry, I haven't had a single block of time to read more of the earlier parts of this thread yet.

Don't love that Wake88's case on TvK above basically rests on him assuming TvK's a mason. A) outing the potential conf-town is silly, and B) if you can't make a case for TvK being town without assuming he's a named townie it's probably not a very strong case.

[ICEninja]

Question, Wake, what if we lynch another player right now and they die and flip mason. How will that impact your read on TvK?

[Wake1]

I'd either be dead wrong, or there could be 2+ Masons (which is less likely imo).

[Squirrel Girl]

@Wake - is it possible to hear your conclusions on a handful of players and then we can just wait for you to type up the walls later? Because I feel like you keep getting distracted from working on the walls - do you have any conclusions yet, or are you needing to type the walls to reach the conclusions?

[Wake1]

I need the walls to type up the conclusions. I need it to all be gathered and in my sight so I can focus and process it. (I have ADD, so it can be very hard to focus at times).

[Wake1]

And at times I just get tired, or I've got other things to do that are more important, or am simply not in the mood for Mafia, or in a good one. I'm planning to construct a read on Kid A, MME, Fferyllt, and Penguin_Alien next.

[Squirrel Girl]

So I was correct in that you don't actually have reads? I shake my head at you for getting frustrated at me for pointing it out then. Okay, standing by for more walls.

[Wake1]

So I was correct in that you don't actually have reads? I shake my head at you for getting frustrated at me for pointing it out then. Okay, standing by for more walls.

Please stop twisting what I have and haven't done.

As I've said and shown before, I've had more than a few reads scattered throughout my stream-of-thought posts.

The only reason I'm now writing up focused reads is because it's less of a challenge than collecting all of them and pointing them out to you. Not only that, but I showed in (996) (one of many posts) that your claim that I had said nothing was absolutely false.