Big Brother: HoH Mafia (We have a winner at last)

[Minions]

I'm about but I can't see a sudden surge of activity from f16 after he has been AWOL for a few days now.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Hey, I am just about to post my case on Toog. It is taking longer than I expected but I am about done.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Minions, I have not been trying to "bully" you. I have just been really frustrated because to me it is obvious that Toog is scum. I understand that it isn't to you and that from your POV, I could be scum as well, so I am sorry if I came off that way. I have trying to explain what was obvious to me while scum coasts by with you believing them and with a nice claim and that is not a nice scenario to be in at all - to watch while he misrepresents me and is able to persuade you of it. To your credit, I'll say that you keeping an open mind and considering the possibility of voting Toog was the high point for me since it shows that all is not lost and town can still win.

I made quite a few mistakes and pushed a lot of bad lynches and I've been working on a case to make sure that I don't let anyone down. Nacho and Tammy who were ripping the scumteam to shreds early on in the game. ToastyToast who firmly believed that I was town, who I voted without a second glance at him. Rach, who I townread at certain points, who I should have gone out on a limb to save because not a lot of people can read her well. Desperado who caught Toog, but who I was too busy tunneling on based on an early, correct townread of JRBD. Titus who I extensively meta'd and read as town, BBMolla, who was incredibly awesome with his reads and could have helped us win had I not done a huge turnaround on him - If anyone of you are watching, I am not going to let you down! I have a huge 3-part case on Toogeloo that I will post in succession. I'm giving this the best shot I can to hopefully save this for the town. I guess you can wish me luck in the dead thread if you see this!

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Case against Toogeloo - Part 1 of 3: Toogeloo's scummy behavior

1) Toog Scumslips and reveals knowledge that Desperado is town

:

The fact that there is a liar makes it more likely that the votes were split, and it's more likely that the scum put two votes on Gnomeo and 1 vote on you if anything.

You're making this up as you go along aren't you? There are only 4 scum. How would they have 5 votes?

This is unclear. There are only 4 scum and you think two of them got nominated, yet you are crediting them with 3 votes here when they only had 2 last night.

Because you know I'm town and you know the scum actually did have 3 votes, I'm guessing.

Note how Toog naturally assumes that scum have 3 votes besides Gnomeo. He says that the scum put 2 votes on Gnomeo and one on Desp while accusing Desperado of being scum. This doesn't make sense because in the scenario that Desp is scum with Gnomeo, scum only have two more votes left. What likely happened was that scum talked in their QT about how they will use their 3 votes (Gnomeo was put up for eviction and didn't have a vote), and it seems like they decided that a 2-1 split was the best. Toog accuses Desp while claiming that the scum did a 2-1 split. The incongruence in his thought process here is that were Toog actually town who assumed that Gnomeo/Desp were both scum, the natural argument would be that scum only have two more votes. The slip here is Toog's argument implicitly requires Desperado to be town. His response doesn't address the issue at all:

The fact that Nominees can't vote is still hasn't completely processed in my brain.

If he thought the nominees could vote, then he would assume that Gnomeo could vote as well making it

4

votes. There is no townie thought process which would lead him to conclude that scum have 3 spare votes except in a scenario where he thought Desperado was town - and he didn't.

This alone is enough to condemn Toogeloo

- screw everything else even. This was somewhat difficult to understand at first and I skimmed over it so I didn't realize that

Desp had caught Toog blatantly revealing insider information.

If I didn't explain well enough, ask me to elaborate - this is very important and the implications are easily missed (and I didn't even realize until I re-read the game). Desp's 950 and 951 elaborate on this. As Desperado points out,

the scum vote split of 2 to 1 was essential to his interpretation of the N1 vote. If he had truly forgotten that nominees couldn't vote then he would have credited the scum with 4 votes, not 3.

---

2) Toogeloo defends himself by saying he towntelled when Peacebringer did so too

I've made town tells of not knowing how many scum there are, claiming Vanilla like 3 or 4 pages into Day 1, and thinking Iceguy was town after the flip.

"Towntells" like this can easily be faked.

Note Peacebringer's post:

Actually, this is Big Brother HOH mafia... if I were to run such a game there would not be only one faction.

There would be potential recruitment and other stuff as well. So I am not sold on only one faction.

He speculates about the possibility of there being recruitment and multiple factions in the game - which is bullsmurf and got him townread by Imperium. Scum are well aware that there is no potential for recruitment. If you buy Toogeloo's statement above as an actual townslip, you also should buy Peacebringer's (as Imperium did), but we know now that it isn't the case.

Peacebringer makes further statements that could be considered as "towntells."

lol- like that will happen. At least 4 may or may not tell the truth... but we will need to get into who voted whom and use that for scum hunting. Lies may eventually be sorted.

His use of the phrase "at least" suggest that he is trying to imply more than 4 scum - again a possible effort to towntell. Peacebringer also seems to have "forgotten" that there are 4 scum. I speculate that the mafia perhaps came in with a plan pre-game that they will fake townslips and ignorance of the setup in order to be townread. I am not saying that Toog as town couldn't have been mistaken, but the fact that he says "hey look, Minions, I made towntells!" is what should cause for concern. Clearly he planned to cash in these "towntells."

---

3) Toogeloo has fishy interactions with the 3 flipped scum

3a. Peacebringer and Gnomeo wanted Toogeloo as HoH

:
This is fairly self-explanatory:

vote toogloo

VOTE: Toogeloo Is probably town. I have no problem putting up his suspects for nomination. I will also

FOS: Titus

Who I would vote for at this point.

This is more than a co-incidence. While they could be "buddying" with town-Toog, why choose

Toog

in particular? I believe this is an effort to get a scum player as HoH. Toog refutes this by saying that he didn't want to be HoH. This is irrelevant because the HoH can't self-vote. Scum could encourage townies to vote in an initially reluctant Toog who would ultimately grudgingly accept the HoH nomination. I believe it is more than a co-incidence that two scum players wanted Toog in as HoH.

3b. Bulbazak's interaction with Toogeloo is off as well

If I was HoH I'd nominate Desperado with BBMolla

Toogeloo still needs to be lynched.

Vote Titus

2 in a row is enough, and Titus is one of my strongest townreads.

Titus never indicated anytime between her post and Bulb's post that she found Toogeloo suspicious at all. She also made it very clear she prefers HoH having an influence over who they nominate. So, if Bulb wants Toogeloo lynched, why vote Titus at all? It makes much more sense to vote Desperado who had been actively pursuing Toogeloo. Bulb even agreed with Desperado when Desperado FOSsed Toog which was in post 861. In retrospect, it shows that Bulb was distancing from Toog by FOSsing him just as he distanced from Peace and Gnomeo, but is voting someone who wouldn't put up Toog because he doesn't actually want Toog lynched. Bulbazak had been pretty loud about pushing his scumbuddies but he doesn't vote Desperado who would have put up his choice of nominations (Toog). In 915, Bulb says that he doesn't even agree with Titus - yet chooses Titus as HoH.

---

4) Toogeloo has not pushed any of his scumreads in later days

From page 63 onwards, note my posts and see how I push my scumreads while Toog does nothing much at all. I continue pushing Desp and trying to persuade Titus on Page 65. As day 8 begins (on the same page), I keep pushing Titus and arguing with her. Toogeloo's posts on page 66 and Page 67 are very laid back and he never argues or pushing scumreads very hard (other than Tinfoil theories that he brings up). Most of the pushing has been done by me. This continues onto the next few pages. This post for instance is purely Toog's thoughts about who the mafia would have evicted. He never pushes on anyone and directly accuses them of being scum the way I pushed Desp and how I wall-warred with Titus. Later on in the same page, he merely sits back and "chuckles" at the humor of Titus and I battling each other with everything we had.

It is ironic indeed that Toog says that I haven't pushed scumreads. I have argued with Desperado, and Titus and pushed hard for their evictions. I engaged their arguments and put myself out there whereas Toog has been on autopilot sitting pretty with his "confirmation" as godfather evicting who everybody else nominated, and reaching LYLO without ever risking antagonizing Titus and Desperado in the later days and potentially causing them to attack him and for him to be reconsidered as a suspect. The gamestate favored him and he sat back and watched us evict people one by one where as I put myself out there and fought for the evictions that I thought would yield scum lynches.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Case against Toogeloo - Part 2 of 3: Toogeloo's claims about the setup are false

To corroborate Toogeloo's independently scummy behavior, note that his interpretation that there is no GF makes the setup impossible.

Here we have him pushing Godfather (as we already knew he would) balance with a Town Cop. Which I would agree with, if you were a real Cop. You are Aesthetic and limited to two use, and had we not utilized your power through organization prior to you using it, it's possible you could have scanned someone who was going to get lynched anyways. You are a very, very, weak cop. Godfather does not need to be in this setup to balance your form of Cop. But interestingly he does say that you (Minions) need to decide which of us is the godfather (not scum, but godfather).

The game would be broken if scum only has a two-shot killing power and no means to mess with the investigations. Minions investigates one townie; confirms himself as town. Minions investigates another townie; also confirmed as town. Three confirmed town can vote one of themselves as HoH and kill everyone else indefinitely and thus pretty much autowin as long as town trusts all three. Not ALL scenarios point to a broken game but game breaking is not only possible but plausible if there is no GF. To think that there is no Godfather in the game is to think that Voided left the game open to be broken. (Not that EVERY scenario will lead to a game-break but that a game-break is probable). Toog throws out a couple of scenarios where the game doesn't break with your role. This misses my point that your role without a GF leads to a POTENTIAL for game breaking based on town choices - which mods try to avoid. Also, why would I kill Imperium (after they townread me) as opposed to you if there was no GF in the game? Toog on the other hand wanted to eliminate Imperium so that you would scan and clear him.

Furthermore, F-16 keeps pushing the "2 confirmed townies via the cop" thing. The odds of that happening were fairly low. As it is now, only one player was scanned innocent and the other scanned guilty. And since you don't directly get the results yourself, he is making the assumption that the HoH in play is also town and telling the truth which is an impossible assumption. Add to the fact that you could have wasted your scans early on people who might have gotten lynched anyways, or someone who was cleared was still a possibility of being shot adds to the extremely limited scope of your role. I'm fairly certain that the mod didn't expect town to leash your cop scans before you used them.

This again fails to respond to my argument that it is the

potential

for game-breaks that would lead to a GF existing, not necessarily actual game-breaks. Yes, Toog's scenario is possible. So is mine. One of them breaks the game. In the scenario he outlined, town can simply lynch the HoH who revealed the innocent result which validates that innocent result in addition to you. Then town lynches everybody but the innocent and the cop and autowin.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Part 3 of 3: Recent points that were brought up

It has got to be Toog. Seriously, I am town.

Starts with me.

So, with 3 kills, how does a 2X cop make any sense? Only with there being a GF. I am still convinced that you are town, BBMolla. The scum are among Toog and Minions but I am not sure who it is.

This one is actually kind of funny on the relook. He's convinced there must be a godfather, so why does he even list Minions as possible scum since his role is the cop role?

That was me in my confusion wondering who the hell the scum were. I hadn't time to think deeply about the setup. Toogeloo agrees with me that changing positions and reads isn't scummy. In fact, he argues that he did it too. Here is me throwing out the possibilities and considering who could be scum.

The fact that scum didn't kill Minions shows that either 1) Minions is scum, or 2) Scum weren't afraid of Minion's abilities. Both point towards one of Toog/Minions being scum. I lean towards Minons because the decision to investigate Toog didn't come from scum at all. I think it is too much of a co-incidence to investigate the GF. Rather, I believe that the abilities that scum have are the abilities that Minions has been given.

Believes there is a Godfather for balance to the Cop, then swings the other direction to Scum Cop (only PR in the entire game being Aesthetic Scum Cop? Really?)

Yes, I considered the possibility that Toogeloo was the godfather, then the possibility that you were a scum cop. Toog is painting it as though my suspicion on you is scummy in a subtle appeal to emotion, i.e. "look at F-16 FOSing you!" Town don't know who the scum are. As such, they will regularly FOS townies. Note that Toogeloo has played his hand very well by refraining from FOSing you. This is because he knew that you were town. From an uninformed position, I was considering both possibilities wondering who the scum could be. As I thought more deeply about it and had time to think, I came to the conclusion that the only thing that makes sense is a town cop with a scum GF. It needed thought and analysis to come to that conclusion. As such, Toog pointing out "contradictions" in my stance is rubbish.

I am actually pretty sure it is Minions at this point and Bulbazak is double-bussing. Let's vote toog, have him put up Minions and one of me/Molla.

Now fully committed to Minions.

While I am pretty sure both Toog and BBMolla are town, I'd rather Toog be made HoH. I trust BBMolla more in LYLO situations.

Implies that if Minions is lynched we would be in LyLo. F-16 vs. BBmolla vs. Toogs would have been a far easier time for F-16 than this current situation.

I agree that it would have been easier for me to lynch you first and then have Molla vote Toog if I were scum. I could have easily voted BBMolla at the start of the day and sat on the vote if I wanted Molla to be HoH. But I didn't. The "LYLO situation" was conditional on you flipping town. Again, I am not scum. I am not aware that you are town. Toog pushing my suspicion on you as part of his "case" shows him trying to manipulate you by fueling the flames of disagreement and mutual suspicion that we had. SO much of his case involves me suspecting you. He speculates that if I were scum, I would try to get the confirmed cop lynched to have an easier LYLO. But if I were scum, I would a) Have killed you with a scumkill, and b) Let Bulbazak live. Toog has motivation to leave you alive because as the GF, he would want you to investigate him. Why the heck do I want you lying around till LYLO if I am not the GF? It is far-fetched to assume that I would bus Bulb and get myself into a nearly unwinnable LYLO with the cop and the "conf-town."

(Calls for V/LA, then cancels it a few days later).

This is junk. I called for V/LA in every game I was playing in and cancelled it too in every game I was playing in. I had a project due (my reason for the V/LA) which was extended (my reason for the cancellation). In any case, this is real life stuff. The fact that Toog is pushing this as part of his case is astoundingly scummy.

This is true though. He never does telegraph his scumreads on Bulbazak and Gnomeo. They appear out of nowhere completely.

At this point it's evident that Minions and I are solid, so this is where he starts to turn his "BBmolla is obvtown," into:

I no longer think Minions is scum. I think it is between BBMolla and Toogeloo. I was wondering why Molla wouldn't kill you guys if he was scum but there is always the chance that Molla himself is the GF. Your case convinced me mostly. I know you said you had a town lean but BBMolla did throw out those scum suspects out of nowhere. It was too good to be true. He was too sure in those reads. It matches his other games where he bussed his scumteam pretty closely. I still don't get why he would kill Imperium though and it is something I'll have to look into.

Complete 180. Minions town, BBmolla scum (Toog still in the middle). Note that Minions said town lean on molla, but then F-16 starts to sow the doubt on it to try and turn it into a much stronger scum read. (Minions then eventually says he's starting to think F-16 is town after this).

First off, let me point out that in any mafia game, persuasion plays an extremely important role in winning the game. I am sure that you are aware of it. One person finding scum isn't enough to win the game. They need to make cases, push that player, sway the opinions of the rest of the town and persuade them into lynching that player. That is similar to what you attempted to do. Town sometimes persuade players to mislynch (you mentioned this in VisCon about how ]Nacho can convince people to mislynch in response to my post a few posts earlier). Your case on BBMolla was similar. You made a persuasive case, pointed out the scummy things that he did and swayed my opinion in favor of lynching Molla. Your depth of analysis, your willingness to consider all possibilities, your extensive reasoning for developing a scumread all simultaneously caused me to have a strong townread on you. Your case convinced me to lynch Molla instead. This was the turn-around that I developed based on the new information presented to me. I read your case and understood the meticulous way you went about it as town motivated while using the content in it to scumread Molla. Being persuaded does not show scum motivation as Toogeloo seems to imply. If town are not open to persuasion, lynches would never happen. While Toogeloo twists my reasoning to mean that I was switching reads to get Molla lynched, what actually hapenned was that your case swayed me - which is sort of the point of a case in the first place... It actually makes MORE sense to not be swayed by your case, to appeal to Molla and goad him into OMGUSing you for that extensive case, and persuading him to lynch you. As Toog so kindly points out, an endgame with Molla is easier than an endgame with you.

You have been hardcore pandering to the people with the power to evict for the last 2 days now. Molla was a strong leader of town and universally believed to be town by pretty much everyone, so that's where you bet all your cards on at the start of yesterday. Minions and I made you have to pull a full reversal.

Except as I pointed above, a full reversal does not actually make sense for me to do as scum.

Furthermore, Toog's continual attempts to paint me as scummy for changing my mind makes no sense because there

was no scum motivation for me to change my mind

as I pointed above. I also explained how town changes their positions more readily, more easily, and more crazily and new information is processed. Your case was new information. The raw changes of positions that town do is difficult to replicate and scum are usually far more consistent. While Toog has changed him mind on Molla, his change was a lot more low-key, smooth and subdued - indicative of the composure of scum rather than the confusion of a townie.

And why would you do that when my eviction today guarantees that you get evicted tomorrow? You would need me on your side to help you lynch the cop/conftown, and then, the remaining player would lynch me.

This could almost be the words right out of molla's mouth since it's exactly what F-16 was doing at the beginning of the day.
(Several posts badgering molla about his Bulba read).
Calls me town as fuck, then says that if molla isn't scum I must be because he doesn't feel like Minions can be scum after the meticulous reading. Hammer drops, molla is lynched, I say I don't believe there is a scum cop, then F-16 opens his first post of the day saying he doesn't believe there would be a Scum Cop either, and if there is a Scum Cop, then he's going be pissed at voided.

Apparently Minions is no longer town because of his meticulous reading, but rather because there can not be a Scum Cop.

I think I end up dictating his day by posting first. He sees that there is no way I am going to evict Minions, so he has to do the exact same thing back at me since he has no shot of getting Minions evicted.

The bolded is ABSOLUTE junk. Obviously I believe you are town both for your meticulous reading as well as the fact that I now realized that there is no scum cop. I have two reasons for believing you are town. I fail to see how having multiple separate reasons for a townread is scummy. Toog here merely twisted my words to make something seem scummy when it is not.

As for the rest of the quote, change of mind isn't scummy. Toogeloo agreed since he too pointed out where he changed his mind. And yet, he continually insists how my positions have changed as if that is scummy at all. I did initially think that Toog was town and you were scum. Yet, your meticulous reading when it was unnecessary that you put in so much effort if you were scum changed my mindset and I came to the realization that it was EXTREMELY unlikely that you were scum. So, naturally at that point, Molla was my top suspect with Toogeloo a second. What part of this doesn't make sense (other than "he changed his mind, ergo he is scum!")?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I've explained in part 3 how I don't have motivation to kill Imperium. Who does?

I'd actually rather be nominated tonight than later if we're gonna do this at all. Have Minions scan me tonight and then I can gloat tomorrow. Put me against your biggest scum read molla.

I no longer have the security blanket of Imperium talking sense into people, and have at least 4 people who want me nominated. I am a good nominee to be scanned and prove Minions one way or another.

As soon as Imperium is dead, Toogeloo starts hardcore arguing to be nominated for the scan.

[Minions]

I half expected you to bring up a case when toog said he wouldn't be coming back before deadline.

But then I saw how much there was. That's clearly an indication of a few days work, explains the absense and having now digested it is very well constructed.

I would expect someone even as scum to fight to the death, but the level of input here and the time put in is more than just a last ditch save. As you call it, it's meticulous.

And to your credit it's convincing. And by that I mean I'm convinced.

I'm ready to take a small chance here and bet on the setup requiring a godfather, cos f16 has shown town play. And this game will always be a balance of knowledge of what would make sense and analysis of behaviour.

Well done f16, you saved me from losing us this.

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 10.03:

Minions - Toog (L-1)

Not Voting - F-16, Minions

With 3 alive it takes 2 to elect an HoH.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-11-29 14:55:39) or by 1:00 PM on November 29th, 2013.

[Voidedmafia]

The tension between the last three guests was palpable as Toog and F-16 kept their eyes on Minions. Many a time they explained their cases as Toog's sole vote for Minions to be HoH hung by Minions' name. Slowly but surely, the clock ran down to the deadline.

"Your time is up," Julie announces. "As Minions is the one with the most votes--in fact, the only vote--they are now the last HoH of the game.

"Minions, step forward and choose the last evictee wisely."

Minions has been elected as the final Head of Household at the deadline. As they are the last HoH of the game, they may PM me the person they wish to have evicted.

[Voidedmafia]

Just as an FYI, I'm going to be busy doing outside work for most of the day, so the final flavor and endgame scene will be delayed until tonight. I hope you all enjoyed this season of Big Brother!

[Voidedmafia]

"Well, Minions?" Julie repeats. "State who you wish to be the last person evicted."

Minions considers for a moment, then grins. "Toog." Minons says, pointing a finger at him.

"Very well. Toog, please pack your things and exit the mansion," Julie says. Toog, looking quite annoyed, takes his things and leaves. But nothing else is left behind.

"Wait...so..." F-16 begins, then turns to look at Minions, who still has the grin.

"You're out, too," Minions says. "Right, Julie?" In front of F-16's disbelieving eyes, Minions pulls out a glass trinket of the namesake minions and begins twirling it around. "We win."

"Indeed. Unfortunately for you and the rest of the other guests, you were not able to find the interlopers in time," Julie says to F-16. "So, in this inaugural season for this new Big Brother twist, the imposters have won at the Big Brother Mansion."

Not long after, Minions' three partners as well as the rest of the guests trickle back in to talk and discuss as the at-home audiences begin to see the credits roll for the last time.

"Another sizzling season is over, and we had another exciting time in the Big Brother Mansion where anything can happen," Julie Chen says as she appears on the main screen. "If you enjoyed the new twist on the show, log on to BigBrother.com and give us your thoughts and comments! As we get a final look at the rest of the players, this is Julie Chen, wishing you a safe rest of the summer, and a welcome invitation to the next time the Mansion opens its doors."

As the in-house audience claps and cheers, the screen pans away from Julie and then transitions to the houseguests for the remainder of the time allotted as the rest of the credits roll.

Toogeloo,

Vanilla Townie

, Evicted Day 10.
F-16,

Vanilla Townie

, endgamed Day 10

The

scumteam

of Minions--2-shot Amnesiac Cop--Bulbazak, IceGuy, and Gnomeo--Mafia Goons--win!

[Voidedmafia]

Spoiler: Role distribution

1. Imperium (Hydra of Tammy and Nachomamma) - VT
2. keybladewielder - VT
3. Titus - VT
4. Minions - Mafia Amnesiac Cop
5. Gnomeo - Mafia Goon
6. Bulbazak - Mafia Goon
7. BBmolla - VT
8.

peacebringer

IceGuy - Mafia Goon
9.

blackberry

F-16 Fighting Falcon - VT
10. Jake from Rainbow Dash (hydra of Rainbow Dash and Jake From State Farm)- VT
11. ToastyToast - VT
12. RachMarie - VT
13. Toogeloo - VT
14. Desperado - VT

Bulbazak, Gnomeo, and Peacebringer/IceGuy got this role (using PB's as the example):

Greetings, peacebringer, and welcome to the Big Brother Mansion.

You are the Mafia Goon, along with Bulbazak and Gnomeo, who are also Mafia Goons, as well as Minions, who is the Mafia Amnesiac Cop.

Each night (and before the game begins) you may talk amongst yourselves to plan strategies and the like Here.

During the day you can cast your vote to decide who will become the next Head of House. You can also vote during the night to decide who is evicted, provided you are not up for eviction yourself. You also have a factional 2-shot daykill that anyone can use.

You win when the mafia outnumber the town, or nothing can prevent that from happening.

If you have read and understood your role, please confirm by PM by restating your alignment and role name.

If you are replacing in, read rule 24 as well.

Thread is here

The 2-shot Amnesiac Cop first had it's alignment (town or scum) randomized, landing as a scum ability. Following that, Minions got this PM:

Welcome, Minions, to the Big Brother Household!

You are the mafia 2-shot Amnesiac Cop. Your partners are Bulbazak, Gnomeo, and peacebringer, who are Mafia Goons

During the eviction voting phase after the Head of Household (HoH) picks the two people up for eviction, you may select one of the two evictees to investigate. If successful, your result will be sent to the Head of Household the next day as either guilty or not guilty.

You also have a 2-shot factional daykill that any of you can use.

You may discuss with your mafia partners pre-game and during the night phase here].

You win when the mafia outnumber the town or nothing can prevent that.

Please confirm by restating your alignment and role via PM.

If you are replacing in, read rule 24 as well.

Thread is here

The rest of the players got what amounts to the sample VT PM in the OP.

Spoiler: N1

N1 Nominations: Desperado and Gnomeo.

Eviction vote status:

Gnomeo - 6
Toasty
Bulbazak
Titus
BBmolla
IceGuy
Minions (randomized due to not turning in a vote)

Desp - 4
Peacebringer (not counted due to replace out)
RachMarie
Keybladewielder
Desperado

Minions did not PM me in time, and as such their vote was randomized.

Spoiler: N2

N2 Nominations: Desperado and IceGuy

Eviction vote status:

Desp - 4
RachMarie
Titus
Keyblade
Bulbazak

IceGuy - 5
F-16
Toogeloo
BBMolla
Toasty
Minions

Spoiler: N3

N3 nominations: Toastytoast and toogeloo

Eviction vote status:

Toasty - 4
F-16
Desp
Minions
Keyblade


Toog - 3
Rach
Titus
Bulb

Minions investigates toogeloo - successful (Not Guilty)

Spoiler: N4

N4 nominations: RachMarie and Bulbazak

Eviction vote status:

Rach - 5
Desp
BB
Titus
keyblade
Toog
Minions

Bulb - 0

minions investigate Bulbazak - successful (Guilty)

Spoiler: N5

N5 nominations: Bulbazak and keyblade

Eviction vote status:

Bulb - 5
Titus
BBmolla
Toog
Desp
Minions

keyblade - 0

Spoiler: N6

N6 nominations: Keyblade and Desperado

Eviction vote status:

Keyblade - 3
Toog
Titus
Keyblade

Desp - 1
BBmolla

Spoiler: N7

N7 Nominations: Desperado and Titus

Eviction vote status:

Desp - 3
Minions
BBmolla
Toogeloo

Titus - 0

Spoiler: N8

N8 Nominations: F-16 and Titus

Eviction vote status:

Titus - 2
Minions
Toog

F-16 - 0

Spoiler: N9

N9 nominations: bbmolla and f-16

Eviction vote status:

Bbmolla - 1
Toog

F-16 - 0

Dead QT. The mafia may reveal their QT if they wish.




Quite frankly, I'm glad this is finally done from a modding perspective. I feel like the game was fairly interesting initially, but as usual I always have to screw it up somewhere along the line, which is why I've decided I'm not going to mod anymore, or at least for a good while.

The mistake was with IceGuy. As you can see, he was supposed to get a Mafia PM N1 when Peace replaced out, but for some reason I thought he was town instead and gave him that PM. This wasn't noticed until N2 after I checked in on the Mafia QT and felt something was amiss. By then, though, it was really too late for IceGuy as he was already slated for eviction. I don't know if giving him the wrong PM was the cause of his inactivity D2 or if that was simply due to him not being active site-wide, but I still feel that it deprived the scum of an element of synergy.

A second thing to note is that I probably shouldn't have allowed scum to have the daykills as well if they had the amnesiac cop, though the way that minions used both shots against the rest of the scum's intentions (and not the way I believed was the optimal usage) introduced a different WIFOM on it's own, though I can't speak on whether or not it helped or not. *shrug*

So, yeah, analyze each other, (most likely) critique my (in)ability to mod, etc., etc.

[BBmolla]

Giving scum a 2-Shot Amnesiac Cop single handedly lost us the the game so.

Cool.

[BBmolla]

Like, did Mafia having a 2-shot daykill and an obviously pro-town role seriously seem balanced to you? Even if it was 10:4?

I'm really upset because reads in general, maybe minus Bulba, were correct. But we lost due to setup assumptions (AKA, Mod not doing something retarded like giving scum an amnesiac cop).

I'm pretty upset.

[BBmolla]

Like how the hell were we supposed to guess that Voided? And don't say "scumhunt" cause we fucking thought he was scum, but then he survived because of his

confirmable claim

.

[BBmolla]

Maybe I'm just being absurd and ridiculous because I'm upset we lost, but I donno. Giving scum an amnesiac cop was pants on head retarded.

[BBmolla]

The 2-shot Amnesiac Cop first had it's alignment (town or scum) randomized, landing as a scum ability.

If you had told us this, then the setup would have been balanced.

[BBmolla]

grumble grumble

[Voidedmafia]

Like, did Mafia having a 2-shot daykill and an obviously pro-town role seriously seem balanced to you? Even if it was 10:4?

Giving them both was a terrible mistake (one of many I always make when I mod, have you noticed?), which is why I'm quitting.

As for the Cop role, perhaps you're right, but at least you won't have to deal with it from me again, eh?

But in the end, I think you have a right to be grumpy. I know that I probably sound like I'm throwing a pity party on myself here, but this was simply very poor performance on my part in a string of poor performances, that is leading me to conclude that I'm just not cut out to be a mod with the way my life is right now. It's not necessarily the fact that I'm doing this by myself, I don't think (though I agree that some of the mistakes I've made could've been caught if someone else was looking it over with me), but it's very disheartening. The only thing I think I've really done right this game was the flavor and I suppose the VCs, but all in all very lackluster.

[BBmolla]

Voided, don't get me wrong, I don't think this is some unforgiveable mistake. I like you as a mod. People make mistakes and in the grand scheme of things this is small.

Don't be too hard on yourself.

Who reviewed the setup?

[BBmolla]

Props for admitting it was a mistake at least.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, that Toog-case turned out to be all for nothing. We should have hanged Minions and Toog a long while ago, BUT, there was no way of telling whether the scum had 2-3 more kills for instance. So, idk, this wasn't even incorrect setup-spec because a townie could have had the cop role. I think Voided was a great mod in keeping up with the vote counts and flavor. I just didn't like this particular setup at all. It was too frustrating to go back on Titus and BBmolla townreads after reading them as really strong town, and then realizing that they were town all along anyways but we ended up lynching them. I am going to lay off of playing nightless games, and large theme games for a good while. As for what people were posting in the dead QT (no way minions is town) doesn't take into account that Minions COULD have been town if the RNG swung our way so a town cop wasn't out of the question. As for play, I enjoyed playing with several players on the playerlist who I had never played with before.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

And Voided, yeah, your modding wasn't bad at all. You had great flavor, and you were timely with the votecounts and prods. I enjoyed playing your game even if I didn't like the setup.

[BBmolla]

I did have fun! Things just got frustrating once Minion's claim made him unlynchable. (Not that I'm implying I still thought he was scum after the claim, but that the claim invalidated any possibility of him being lynched)

You as a mod aren't the problem Voided, just get more feedback on the setups imo.