A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Imperium]

Nah, I'm good. It was mostly a joke.

Nacho - I'll talk about Alfred again later as you want full thoughts. The short version is they *could* be scum but I don't think they are.

[Tammy]

Nah, I'm good. It was mostly a joke.

Nacho - I'll talk about Alfred again later as you want full thoughts. The short version is they *could* be scum but I don't think they are.

Just a little talking to myself here.

[Nautilius]

I do want full thoughts, not-me!

[Nautilius]

Tammy
you ruined it

[Tammy]

What did I ruin?

[Tammy]

oh i see never mind.

i'm slow.

[Alfred Borden]

Garruk is interesting for a reason similar to Goat. Not the one from last line.

This went nowhere btw.

Kanye can stay in the ocean of probtowns for the Quadz wagon reboot.

[Nautilius]

oh i see never mind.

i'm slow.

yeah you are

[Nautilius]

Garruk is interesting for a reason similar to Goat. Not the one from last line.

This went nowhere btw.

Kanye can stay in the ocean of probtowns for the Quadz wagon reboot.

LLAMARBLE LOOK AT MY TOWN PEOPLE AGAIN

[Nautilius]

hey llamarble
it's lonely without you

[Titus]

Prod dodge

[Shadoweh]

Failing catchup promises is a core part of my play when I'm not Being Awesome.
I haven't been at all vague SD.
Shadoweh asked me to claim D2-3 or so after a seduction error and I said I was the biggest dragon.

I feel like we've had this conversation before somewhere (yoloville?) but my response is for you to start Being Awesome. You know, I wanted to invite you specifically into my chambers because I wanted your opinion on who to shoot, so you're already too late to be awesome for me.

At least I knew (and blatantly ignored) who Nautcho wanted dead!

[Nautilius]

Natirasha please sit SSK aside for a moment and explain why scummy posts are something you don't want to be doing. It's distracting me with all the

ooooo shiny

when I am pretty damn content with my vote.

I enjoyed this post quite a bit, actually. Scum-Tierce seems to always be on her back foot, usually fails to get this snippy JUSTICE scumhunting out of the gate early. It's more... waffle-weak wall fests.

Mr Bordenpire, pls to be metaing quadz asap thanks.

Lots of concern with quadz-scum early is a good sign.

GREY BAKER

1) Do explain that Borden read.
2) No read on me? Bad wolf.

There's a lot of egocentrism early game, which is a good sign for Tierce-town. When Tierce is scum, she tries to shuffle off discussion on her to discussion about everyone else. When Tierce is town, she is not only

town

, but clearly clearly town and she expects a majority of the playerlist that aren't idiots to see it.

frankly, it was hilarious

Also completely unoriginal.

I was about to say that the puppy was good and you were promised content from it, Nacho. But if you have me in your list of possible scum you're really getting terrible at this game.

Now, there are two times I remember calling Tierce scum. One time she was town, I thought I had a decent case for her being scum, was subsequently #rekt for calling her scum. When I called her scum, she played the whole "hey hey I see what you mean" card and then a bit of redirection and scumhunting, but this sort of snappy immediate response is what I expect from Tierce-town.

Also if SafetyDance flips scum I am immediately calling for blood and lynching the Nautilius slot for the elleheathen/ellebereth/Ellibereth slip. In fact I am awfully tempted to go there immediately because how the heck do you do that unless Elli is present on your mind due to QT posts. I don't see the first post causing such an impression.

Nacho. You went and drew scum on us?

This was a bit of the rabbit hole business, but I rather liked the strong push on me. I don't see Tierce making this random push on me as town, but I can completely see Tierce seeing something like this and being lost to paranoia-land. There was a few later pushes of things along the lines of "Elli and QTs", but it seems more likely that she would drop it earlier as scum because we all knew this wasn't going anywhere and it's just spinning wheels and uselessness as scum.

Neither can I. The beautiful thing is that this is probably multiball (go ahead and deny it again, Zdenek!), so Nacho-scum is one of those freebies I don't have to worry about. SafetyDance's list, though, that one was crap.

And what ends up pulling Tierce off me in the end was the possibility of me being nightkilled because multiball instead of "oh Nacho is actually town", which is a pretty creative way to backtrack for Tierce-scum and not at all what I expected.

Which is also bothering me regarding Cephrir about me. That is some mighty high Town pedestal I'm getting from him. While true, he hasn't played with me before and it feels kind of awkward. Like that date you cut off with an "emergency call" because they are starting to feel just a touch too clingy too soon.

Dunno. Might be the sleep talking.

Hey Nacho I still haven't produced real actual content! Whatcha gonna do about it?

I liked being cautious about who is townreading her, specifically. Scum is usually happy about being townread and doesn't complain about said townreads, especiallywhen the person townreading them is already a universal townread.

Not

that

new. Newer than most people here, sure, but don't use that as an excuse. With that said, I believe that slot is Town, but the over-politeness is somewhat concerning.

Why call him town and ding him again on the over politeness?
I actually agree that it is weird coming from him, and also agree some of the people handing you pro-town oomph are being odd in general as I haven't seen anything of the sort yet.
I feel like this post is exceedingly fence-sitty and now support the idea of lynching you.
Whassup?

So I can't be wary and want to be damn sure of who I call Town, especially in a game that is likely multiball and probably has something like 6-8 scum? Good to know. ^__^

The things he is hitting seem Town. The way he's going at it seems too overly cautious/polite.

This worries me

. But I guess you can't see it~

As for

you

noticing proTown oomph, :hitoshrug:. You couldn't see it if it was a puppy riding an 18-wheeler with the word TOWN written in golden glittery paint on all sides.

But don't worry, in the future I will keep all my musings in private and only voice Sure Certainties in-thread. We wouldn't want the mighty Thor to think I am being fencesitting scum for thinking things through where others can see it.

tl;dr You wouldn't read me correctly if my role PM was posted in-thread.

This is a poignantly town response to Thor reading her wrong.

As for other CliffsNotes, Alfred Borden, Tammy and I are Town and this is pretty much non-negotiable because we just rock like that. (It's kind of unfair, really, but we're really good at reading each other. Feel free to treat us as that really idiotic masonry that claims on D1. Yell at us for it if need be.)

Tierce was one of the last people to activate/confirm to TET block, but that was reassuring in the sense that she had just started reading fully, and establishing the TET block is something that scum in those three need to do early or else be buried in holy hellfire. Tierce's confirmation of it felt genuine.

He also knows I have trouble reading him,

And can admit it as well? Wonderful.
(In other news, this post is town town town town town!)

I mean, it's perfectly obvious that something happened between Garruk and I that tells them I am Town. You can't even be bothered to look through this stuff (or know who you are talking about), or see how ridiculous a connection it would trace between us if I were to flip scum.

So, talking about the whole Tierce/elle/Garruk scenario. First of all, elle/Tierce are not scum together. This should be a gotcha. Second of all, elle/Garruk are not scum together. Third? I don't see Tierce coming up with something like this as scum (namely, the whole "scum killed me N1 and this guy and this girl are town because of it"). The later BP gambit was also pretty cool, but not as town indicative as the plan itself.

Note that quadz is complaining about one of two things: either Nacho is not explaining enough, or he is not scumhunting (what?). Then Nacho goes and performs a dissection of several ISOs and explains how several people are Town. quadz's complaint becomes that Nacho isn't posting cases, and that reads != cases. I... what? Not even going into theory nonsense here, Nacho is posting cases[/i]. Look at Nacho's ooba read. That is a "this person is Town and this is why" case if I ever saw one. He's also making "these things are scummy and this is why" statements. He has reads in flux and shows his work. And what is with this moving the goalposts nonsense? Nacho makes several beautifully detailed posts, but it's still not enough because he ought to do something else in quadz's perception? What of what Nacho is doing? Why doesn't quadz care about that? I believe that's what Cephrir is saying when he complains that quadz has no real opinion on Nacho's posts; he doesn't seem to care about the content of the posts, just that they are not tailored to some measure quadz keeps changing.

Tierce doesn't strike me as the bussing type, and this is a fucking beautiful quadz attack. This would be a bus even Fate would be proud of.

This is utterly ridiculous. Nacho, you're telling me that, even if it weren't Syryana (which it is), that this slot doesn't need lynched? A slot who has yet to do anything to contribute, a slot that when called on it only decided to flaunt it? A slot who is badly pretending to be CES--if you've ever actually paid attention to CES, timestamps aside, you'd see the behavior is completely different--a slot who has been prod-dodging from the start and more visibly on Sunday 13, Thursday 17, Sunday 20? Are you shitting me?

How

is this not scum play? How is this not the behavior of someone who is completely screwed as scum because there are several players who can read his scum game in this very thread, and whose only recourse is to play the crappiest cryptic impersonation game possible?

JUSTICE-town.

This silence is deafening. What do you mean, timezones.

Sorry, Spy. I don't particularly think you are scum, but you haven't really given me much of a Town feeling either and the show must go on. It's good seeing you back and I hope to play with you in other games soon.

VOTE: SpyreX

not a bus

Happy with Tierce!

[Nautilius]

At least I knew (and blatantly ignored) who Nautcho wanted dead!

you suck btw

[Nautilius]

Would like Tierce's full thoughts on Alfie as well.

[Nautilius]

Also, would you judge me if I said kanye made me swoon?

He made me swoon as well, goodthings.

I remember not too long after #194, Llamarble pointed it out to me and we both had the same kneejerk "WOW LOOK AT THE OBVSCUM" reaction. I'll do my best to sum up our AIM convo about quadz but it basically ended up resulting in this:
-> Llamarble found the post scummy because something either is a slip or it isn't; he found the "this looks like a slip" comment to be scummy because scum want to go after things that :look like: slips in order to bolster the credibility of their votes and make them appear more believable.
-> I hate to use the "o" word here, but personally, I found his vote opportunistic given the above "slip" logic. Scum tend to care a lot more about making sure their actions appear justified in the eyes of everyone at large so I feel like he shoved the slip logic in there for that reason.
-> Shadoweh already pointed it out, but I really dislike his unvote in #213. Seems more like a backpedal after he began drawing some heat for it rather than it being a genuine "my bad". #227 doesn't make sense either since there's plenty of scum motivation in unvoting once something like 4 people react to the vote negatively.

As far as elleheathen goes, both of us really disliked #110 -- lots of stuff had happened between that post and her first one, so her coming returning to the thread again only to comment on a fairly throwaway post by PB was fairly shitty. Llamarble also thought her responses to the wagon felt like scum responses ("huh what I do" -> "that's not worth voting me for", which I agree because it implies that the conclusion, e.g. that she herself is scum, is true). However, #282 seemed townish to me and I want to give your game a good once over since I didn't really follow it while it was ongoing (and I definitely want to get 'marble's second opinion as well). The "Wight" discussion went way over my head because I know almost nothing about the flavor and it completely slipped my mind to ask Llamarble what that was all about >_>

These both seem like fairly strong attacks on buddies right out of the gate (keeping elleheathen-scum in mind, if not the quadz case is still pretty fucking good).

So as soon as someone says "I'm town" you believe them?

If they say it enough times then yup.

Shadoweh is of the 'lots of data required' persuasion. She looks good so far though.

I really liked Llamarble's earlier posts, just saying. His style is so... endearing, and I feel early posts were properly adorable. Tammy, are we in agreement on that bit?

Oh and I forgot to say, Nacho, you can be reassured that Tammy's town. As in, this is probably the best I've felt about her alignment since Castle Zar.

See you Sunday.

So it's one thing to be like "hey, Tammy-town". It's another thing to be like "hey, this is the most Tammy-town since that one game where Tammy was really

really

town. Even posting the similarity to Castle Zar shows that Empire is on his game and in his groove and has no excuse to be posting on a sub-par level. The reason why Empire's D1 play sticks so closely in the minds of people who know him and are familiar with him not only because "hey it looks pretty town", but because he was in his groove and posting

incredibly

town things when normal scum Empire wobbles along like an old man and sometimes comes close to making his way past D1 but this town Empire smashed into the thread and won his way into our hearts. I didn't even mean to type "town Empire" there; it was a Freudian slip because he was

that fucking town

.

Elleheathen - For the little things (#469, #1861, # 687). And the usual things. Strong read.

THIS IS THE READ I WANT TO BELIEVE BUT I JUST CAN'T

Tierce, please don't kill my dreams, thanks.

Also, mollie, looking through it now.

Empire and I had a very similar reaction to Syryana replacing himself with The Alchemist; I found the genuiness of the reaction pretty fucking good.

Man, I really want to be super amped here but the truth is I just feel like this game got way harder.

One of the few times Elli and I talked about the game, we talked about SpyreX. And guess what? This is what Elli said.

Well, the main reason I asked is because Llamarble and I have been going back and forth on it. Honestly, every time I take a look at his ISO, I do get some townpings. I liked the bit where he talked about how he wanted to be more careful in reading Tierce as it was a pretty stark contrast to the way he approached my slot in The Game That Won't Be Mentioned where he just basically excessively sucked up to us.

Fucking beautiful, my thoughts on Andrius exactly.

Ok, you and I need to talk because I've been townreading a lot of the people in your suspect pool and I want to know what's up here:

TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN

Empire's disappearance wasn't a gradual thing either, like what I would expect him to do as scum. That's not what happened here. There are more #goodposts here than I've ever seen Empire make in ALL of his scumgames. Everything in my heart says TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN but people are apparently voting him for falling off and fuck you, plenty of people fell off. Empire's town town towniness passed the range of fakeable, though.

[Nautilius]

And if Tierce AND Tammy agree with me, then seriously, drop it. We know Empire better than you do, we read him in different ways so it's practically fucking impossible that we'll all misread him, seriously if we call this town it is fucking town.

[Nautilius]

Nautilius
Tammy
Tierce
Alfred
kanye
Cephrir
Titus
SafetyDance
ooba

Reviewing this townblock now.

If I added Shadoweh, the lynch immediately pool would be {TheAlchemist, Elleheathen, Messiah, Garruk, Benmage}.
Which doesn't look horrible but suddenly makes Syryana lynch look appetizing.

[Alfred Borden]

Nautilius
Tammy
Tierce
Alfred
kanye
Cephrir
Titus
SafetyDance
ooba

That leaves:
Benmage
Elleheathen
Shadoweh
TA
Garruk
MC

The people in the second group have solid arguments for them being town too.
Garruk's "I thought my motivate could double the scum nightkill and therefore when I used it on Tierce to the tune of no deaths N1 she became town" is a heck of a WAT.
It's weird but definitely possible from town; from scum it's really really hard to buy.
Apparently I need to look at the quadz-reboot context.

[Nautilius]

btw this is scum kanye
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=3975

who got #rekt N1 in a game we played where we lost horribly

his play here is like this:
INNOCENT CHILD----kanye----------------------------------------SCUM

his play there was like this:
INNOCENT CHILD-----------------------------------------kanye-----SCUM

I don't know what would cause such a fantastic increase in SCUM POWER but I need me some of that immediately because I could probably become a god if I got my hands on some of it.

[kanyeknowsbest]

actually that game is more of the outlier as far as my scum games go.

[Nautilius]

damnit alfred too soon

His initial play was beautiful and charmed both Empire and I. Could it be coming from scum? Probably. Do I usually fall for bad boys? No. I don't.

i wanted to say quadz was scum early on for something that i forget but the way he explained his read on me was like, solid fucking gold town. other people who are pretty much 100% town that not every1 may be ion the same page about: benmage, peacebringer.

Strange interactions with scumpartners.

i think no matter what goat posts anymore im gonna be reading it as scum, no matter how objectively solid it is. its 1 of those reads i dont want to have but its gonna fester like fuck and color my judgments on him for a long time 2 come.

I think I know what he said by this now that the bloodlust has cooled just a little bit.

iom very concerned that all of my strong earlygame townreads have become a lot more passive lately. whats the deal guys ?

This was good!

i have only one game of experience w. pb (in which we were both town) so i cant comment on your first 3 points about how this differs from his norm except that his early posting felt similar to his posting in the other game as was in with him. his vote on me (and i am aware that i appear far easier of a target than i actually am (reading scum qts where they post about how they think ill be an easy lynch is 1 of my greatest mafia joys)) i think is pretty genuine irritation on his part if you read the whole interaction between the two of us. it gives off the sort of unreasonable irritation i expected from him based on my previous experience with him. ill have to check the bits ooba mentioned but i felt his replace out seemed legit in light of his general issues w. sitemeta.

displaced i threw my hands up and didnt even bother reading his two posts.

then theres spyrex. i maintain his hammer is alignment null. his posting today has been less than stellar ill admit, but based on my generally eating hella town and genuine vibes from pb early on ive got some goodwill to the slot. as such i can make excuses in my mind about his claim as well, but i want to see him actually start being proactive. im also reminded of the last game i was in with him (the 1 that he called it quits on mafia until now after) where he was extremely passive and reactive as town.

Peacebringer deceived me once because of how genuine he sounded, so I understand exactly where he's coming from here.

mainly the logic that he was trying to capitalize on safetydance bweing a megaturd @ claiming? setting up what sort of appears to be a 1v1 with someone rustling every1s jimmys but still having the abilityt to recover out of it and paint it as not a 1v1 after the fact?

can you explain to me ben why quadz would make this post as a cop who had just been roleblocked?

well if he roleblocked Quadz N2, then w/e no point voting for Quadz. If N3, then yes, lynch Quadz. simple stuff

Quadz, nothing on this?

What's there to say? We don't know what SafetyDance actually meant, and

I'm not particularly concerned about him possibly claiming to have roleblocked me.

I'll freak out about it when people start voting me for it. *shrug*

This was one of the greatest posts ever, I think.

Mostly, in order to read kanye, I look for when he moves and why he moves. Every move that he's made makes sense; he's gotten my back with a lot of my stupid scumreads and usually picks up on good shit before I do, still reading him strong town.

[Nautilius]

I would be interested in reading through stronger scumgames, although I'm not sure it'll help much.

[Nautilius]

We might need to have a talk about Alfie, though.

[kanyeknowsbest]

i Really diont like titus in your guys townmpool.